Match-up Discussion Ermac Matchup chart by Metzos

[Owerbart]

Where are your MU videos? And even if the D+3 is max range and stops a punish, I can at least get free pressure. And there is no reason for Shang to be crouching against Ermac, so I don't think you will get that advantage very often. The worst part is that you probably aren't coming to Dallas so you get to continue talking about the MU without ever backing it up. I will try to get some games with Zaf at Dallas and will then come back with my final verdict.

You could go to Greece. Although we're getting off the rails.

About crouching, I think it depends on how well Ermac mixes. Some players had most success abusing F4, so yes, I think you should crouch against Ermac.

 

[Clayman]

The exact opposite... My numbers are accepted by the community, except for one or two MU's. ST is one of them. The other one is QC.

the third one is kabal

 

[Clayman]

6-4 vs quan chi looks ok though

 

[Metzos]

the third one is kabal

What are you talking about ? Ermac loses to Kabal. I never said Ermac wins or goes even against Kabal.

 

[Clayman]

What are you talking about ? Ermac loses to Kabal. I never said Ermac wins or goes even against Kabal.

but he loses 3-7 not 4-6

 

[Metzos]

but he loses 3-7 not 4-6

That is debatable. Ermac has tools to keep him out and to counter his iaGB BS. I believe its a 6-4 Kabal. If we would go by the .5 system it could be 6.5-3.5 Kabal.

 

[Clayman]

That is debatable. Ermac has tools to keep him out and to counter his iaGB BS. I believe its a 6-4 Kabal. If we would go by the .5 system it could be 6.5-3.5 Kabal.

4-6 looks like a small disadvantage and if u ever played solid kabal u must know this mu is pretty much fcked up
6.5-3.5 i can agree to

 

[Metzos]

4-6 looks like a small disadvantage and if u ever played solid kabal u must know this mu is pretty much fcked up
6.5-3.5 i can agree to

I have played Crathen's Kabal in WGC. Trust me as far as what Ermac can do against him, its a 6-4 Kabal. Anyway the general idea is that Ermac loses to Kabal. The exact MU number though, like i said, is debatable. It could be a 7-3 Kabal though, although Ermac can counter his zoning easily and Kabal is threatening from a distance only when he has bars against Ermac.

 

[Clayman]

I have played Crathen's Kabal in WGC. Trust me as far as what Ermac can do against him, its a 6-4 Kabal. Anyway the general idea is that Ermac loses to Kabal. The exact MU number though, like i said, is debatable. It could be a 7-3 Kabal though, although Ermac can counter his zoning easily and Kabal is threatening from a distance only when he has bars against Ermac.

Kabal always has bars lol
+ Ermac is helpless upclose, can't wakeup, etc.

 

[Qwark28]

I have played Crathen's Kabal in WGC. Trust me as far as what Ermac can do against him, its a 6-4 Kabal. Anyway the general idea is that Ermac loses to Kabal. The exact MU number though, like i said, is debatable. It could be a 7-3 Kabal though, although Ermac can counter his zoning easily and Kabal is threatening from a distance only when he has bars against Ermac.

what can ermac do to fight kabal up close?doesnt need to poke and you'll be at +1 max from a good d1 read, thats still a P1 advantage trade with his f4 and your fastest normal

 

[Xavier Pendragon]

After seeing that Ermac can counter any of Mileena's wakeups, I think it should be 4.5-5.5 advantage to Mileena.

 

[Illmatix]

VS smoke

- at the start of the match forward jump airblast to establish dominance
- Control of the board is more important than damage. your goal is to work him back into the corner and establish corner zoning
Sometimes unbreakerable damage is your go to. you should also utilize your forward throw to work him to the corner
- don't rely on projectiles too much, he can parry these and you lose your control. You gotta sneak these in there if you catch my drift.
- maintain the life lead
- wiffing normals such as standing 1 to feign a force push and d1 to feign forceball. DON'T OVERUSE THIS, smoke will be throwing smokeballs. one and you're done...
- Deep jump kick combos
you can punish smoke ball from far if you time it right.

Corner Zoning
what you wanna do is stand at max force push range, he cant back up anymore because of the corner . He is always in range of tkp. Your goal is to land as many tkps as possible. if he jumps at you standing 1 tks tkp to keep him in the corner. you can punish his wiffed air tele with this also. remember to keep him in the corner. block all wake up teles and punish it with f2 lift push. if he is being a turtle you can advance carefully and f2 into iafb. wiffing normals to bait movement is favorable to catch him with a tkp. if he ex smoke towards you have made him spend meter to escape and should try to throw him back into the corner. plus if he escapes and you have the life lead you should be patient and let him come to you to put him back there. abuse the clock if you can as he cant do chip with projectiles. tkp all smoke toward attempts. f2 throw is also a good tool once he is committed to block.

 

[zaf]

VS smoke

- at the start of the match forward jump airblast to establish dominance
- Control of the board is more important than damage. your goal is to work him back into the corner and establish corner zoning
Sometimes unbreakerable damage is your go to. you should also utilize your forward throw to work him to the corner
- don't rely on projectiles too much, he can parry these and you lose your control. You gotta sneak these in there if you catch my drift.
- maintain the life lead
- wiffing normals such as standing 1 to feign a force push and d1 to feign forceball. DON'T OVERUSE THIS, smoke will be throwing smokeballs. one and you're done...
- Deep jump kick combos
you can punish smoke ball from far if you time it right.

Corner Zoning
what you wanna do is stand at max force push range, he cant back up anymore because of the corner . He is always in range of tkp. Your goal is to land as many tkps as possible. if he jumps at you standing 1 tks tkp to keep him in the corner. you can punish his wiffed air tele with this also. remember to keep him in the corner. block all wake up teles and punish it with f2 lift push. if he is being a turtle you can advance carefully and f2 into iafb. wiffing normals to bait movement is favorable to catch him with a tkp. if he ex smoke towards you have made him spend meter to escape and should try to throw him back into the corner. plus if he escapes and you have the life lead you should be patient and let him come to you to put him back there. abuse the clock if you can as he cant do chip with projectiles. tkp all smoke toward attempts. f2 throw is also a good tool once he is committed to block.

Iafb is a good way to start a match against a lot of characters. This is something that is more general then smoke specific.

Control of the mu is important, but putting him in the corner is not the goal Imo. What I believe you want to be doing in this MU is literally nothing. Camp smoke hard. Time him out. He will not be doing chip damage to you, you can just keep him out. You however can do chip damage with well placed tkp that cant be punished. By sitting there and forcing him to come to you, yoh can force him to make mistakes. AA all jump ins and full combo punish to make him break. You can tkp and tks his smoke away and smoke towards. He gets grabbed during the animations.

If he gains the life lead, you just need to be patient to get it back. He running away and smoking away. Take this time to properly land a tkp or a teleport to get him.

Feigning normals is something that also is general strategy and works well against te cast, so its not smoke specific.

As for the rest and the corner pressure, its also general ermac play that isnt specific to smoke per say.

Ex smoke away i believe is the only option he can use that avoids tkp. So look out for those and dont become too predictable as this could land him a hit.

I would say to go for the highest damaging combos to make him break and leave him with no meter. A smoke with meter is scary because of his resets. If you are doing unbreakerable damage you are always leaving him with the meter to win. So hit him hard every combo. Ermac has 40% combos with no meter off anything except an AA air to air punch.

All in all:
Camp him, he does no chip damage
Make him break, and use highest possible combos.
Gain the life lead

This might be a bit old but i have some footage against a smoke ( who switches to kabal) you can see my stategy well in this mu.
Only thing i did different back then was use unbreakable combos.

 

[Illmatix]

i agree and i would make him break if i have the life lead, i play a decent smoke offline who plays a keep away game who build tons of meter running away. smoke can easily outzone ermac and my version of the matchup tries to address this style of play. a smart smoke will zone until he gets to the wall for the meter, i was stating that you should push him towards it so he doesn't gain the meter from evading you.and because if you get knocked down from a break and you are by the wall he could cross you over and start heading the other way.

 

[zaf]

If smoke wants to run away and keep away just let him. He isnt going to be doing any damage. Just sit and wait and play patient.

 

[Illmatix]

If smoke wants to run away and keep away just let him. He isnt going to be doing any damage. Just sit and wait and play patient.

you feel the meter built isnt an issue?

 

[zaf]

No, he isn't doing any damage, not even chip.
You are doing chip damage.

If you feel you caught on to the smoke players smoke away and smoke bombs, do an instant air teleport to hit him. Follow up the stagger with a cross up or f2.

By playing like this, smoke will eventually need to come to you, when he does punish him.

 

[STRYKIE]

Random observation: Happy birthday to the Ermac matchup chart. Such a rare occurrence that the same one sticks around for a year.

 

[Illmatix]

most of the time smoke is baiting your tele anyways and my guys smoke wont come in till he has a breaker, if you are going for full combos breaker really shuts ermac down beacause he could just zone, come in, he might get you but if you get him he'll break and then start zoning.

 

[zaf]

Random observation: Happy birthday to the Ermac matchup chart. Such a rare occurrence that the same one sticks around for a year.

Im actually working on a new one with big d.

most of the time smoke is baiting your tele anyways and my guys smoke wont come in till he has a breaker, if you are going for full combos breaker really shuts ermac down beacause he could just zone, come in, he might get you but if you get him he'll break and then start zoning.

You are still doing chip damage smoke isn't. You could always do unbreakable combos as well, its not a problem to do them.

If you are playing someone who only approaches when they have breaker, it makes it that much easier to read and punish. Like i said before smokes ways in are limited. Set him up to do something and just punish it. Especially if you know when they want to approach.

 

[Illmatix]

Im actually working on a new one with big d.




You are still doing chip damage smoke isn't. You could always do unbreakable combos as well, its not a problem to do them.

If you are playing someone who only approaches when they have breaker, it makes it that much easier to read and punish. Like i said before smokes ways in are limited. Set him up to do something and just punish it. Especially if you know when they want to approach.

okay smoke match up aside...
i have some other questions..
how do you deal with KL? i have been playing better KLs lately and have had trouble, whats your step by step approach?

 

[Illmatix]

yea we really need a new chart lol

 

[zaf]

like the smoke mu tell me how you play this mu.

 

[Illmatix]

Well... the match starts... then i get blown up lol
well i used to play it super patient blocking low hats trying to bait a tele jumping in and doing iafb trying to bait a spin but lately the kung lao ive been playing has been smarter and has good footsies so its hard to bait. i play it like other matchups but i try to be a lil more agressive because im afraid of kl's pressure and mobility, it's basically 1 huge fail lol. i cant do any close lifts or tkps because his punishing is on point,

 

[Illmatix]

so zaf what are my options?