Match-up Discussion Ermac Matchup chart by Metzos

[Metzos]

5-5 vs Baraka
5-5 vs Cyber Sub-Zero (possible 6 - 4 Ermac)
5-5 vs Cyrax
4-6 vs Freddy Krueger
6-4 vs Jade
5-5 vs Jax
5-5 vs Johnny Cage
4-6 vs Kabal (possible 3 - 7 Kabal)
5-5 vs Kano
4-6 vs Kenshi (possible 3 - 7 Kenshi)
6-4 vs Kitana
5-5 vs Kung Lao
5-5 vs Liu Kang
6-4 vs Mileena
5-5 vs Nightwolf
4-6 vs Noob Saibot
6-4 vs Quan Chi (possible 7 - 3 Ermac)
4-6 vs Raiden
6-4 vs Rain
4-6 vs Reptile
5-5 vs Scorpion
5-5 vs Sektor
4-6 vs Shang Tsung
6-4 vs Sheeva
6-4 vs Sindel
5-5 vs Skarlet
5-5 vs Smoke
4-6 vs Sonya Blade
5-5 vs Stryker
5-5 vs Sub-Zero (possible 6 - 4 Ermac)
6-4 vs Kratos

Tell me what you guys think. Btw expect this post to be edited ALOT. Still dont have enough data on the DLC characters so i would appreciate some feedback with these MU's . If you disagree with any MU's feel free to let me know.

 

[Death]

6-4 vs Mileena???noooo thats a solid 5-5.

 

[NKZero]

I feel as if Ermac punishes Mileena as well as anybody, so maybe a 6-4 is justified. I wan't to know why the Jax match is slightly in Ermac's favour? I'm not questioning it, just don't know about the match-up to agree or disagree.

 

[Metzos]

6-4 vs Mileena???noooo thats a solid 5-5.

Care to explain why plz ?

 

[16 Bit]

Why do you have Kitana at disadvantage? This is fairly even IMO. She has good options to get in and make you block post blocked Force Push.

 

[Metzos]

I feel as if Ermac punishes Mileena as well as anybody, so maybe a 6-4 is justified. I wan't to know why the Jax match is slightly in Ermac's favour? I'm not questioning it, just don't know about the match-up to agree or disagree.

With the latest buffs Jax can can compete on an even scale against zoners atm. BUT. He needs bars to do that and Ermac's moves can easily reset the fight in Ermac's favor sending the opponent almost fullscreen. His dash punch can be punished by full combo on whiff ( although it has to be almost just frame to do that), uppercut or throw and also max range TKP cannot be punished even with EX dash punch. The only problem Ermac has in my opinion against Jax is the corner pressure cause he has a high crouch hitbox which leads to that he cant down poke Jax's F4,1 string. Although particurlary in this MU i believe in the end its a player vs player match. If the opponent cant deal with heavy zoners such as Ermac he is screwed. Thats why i put it slightly in Ermac's favor.

 

[Metzos]

Why do you have Kitana at disadvantage? This is fairly even IMO. She has good options to get in and make you block post blocked Force Push.

To be honest with you i havent met any Kitana player who gave me problems with Ermac thats why i put it in Ermac's favor. Plus she cant punish TKP outside of sweep range at all. In terms of zoning i can punish her fans with TP and air fans with teleport to combo. Plus her square boost is a good way to get in sure, if you mean that as a way of getting in. With a throw i send you fullscreen again and you have to work your way in once more. After the next boost i can mix it up there. So in my opinion i really dont think its the safest way to approach Ermac.

 

[16 Bit]

Not ass, long range normals like dash d+1 and f+2,1.

 

[xenogorgeous]

No way 6-4 against Mileena .... if Mileena can avoid any force push/lift by blocking near Ermac, he is dead.

 

[Metzos]

Not ass, long range normals like dash d+1 and f+2,1.

True, the moves you have mentioned indeed have crazy range for normal moves but still they cant punish TKP outside of sweep range m8. Have tested it alot. Plus a good Ermac player will never TKP you or any other good Kitana player inside that range.

 

[Metzos]

No way 6-4 against Mileena .... if Mileena can avoid any force push/lift by blocking near Ermac, he is dead.

Yeah assuming Ermac will do TKP's and lift's near Mileena which in high lvl gameplay wont happen.

 

[smokey]

I dont doubt your knowledge, but could you provide an oppinion/explanation to why the Smoke match is 5-5. Personally i have only played this matchup a few times, but i got destroyed. Mainly because im sloppy and most damage comes from me trying to jump, or trying to move in with smoke towards, which can be picked up by tele-slam. Bad times. Every mistake on smokes part is 30-50% damage done, and smoke has to work extremely hard to put pressure on, while ermac can just throw you full screen and stay safe!

Whats your dealings with this match, what do you see as ermacs main weaknesses and strengths when fighting smoke? Thanks

 

[16 Bit]

True, the moves you have mentioned indeed have crazy range for normal moves but still they cant punish TKP outside of sweep range m8. Have tested it alot. Plus a good Ermac player will never TKP you or any other good Kitana player inside that range.

Not punish but they force you to respect them, which opens up her game.

If you're not TKP me at that range(which is hella far) then isn't that exactly what I want?

 

[KamikazeJD]

Yea I agree with an even mu against kitana. Her range is ridiculous and to be honest neither side can make a mistake or they will be punished severely. The one thing that edges it out more towards kitana tho is her rush down and chip dealing damage. She also is crazy when it comes to gaining meter. An ermac plater has to play it safe. A bad jump in could be fatal

 

[zaf]

I believe that the ermac and mileena match up is now in Mileena's favour.

i dont know if it is new or not, but my friend who plays mileena now uses this frame trap ( not sure which string it is)
but this frame trap keeps ermac locked down pretty hard. safest thing to do is to jump away or over her and if this is predicted then you are going to lose a lot of health.

also mileena has a much better dagger reset to end combos with now (also found out by my training buddy jer)
this leaves her in your face with constant pressure still.

as much as you can punish her hard for making mistakes, she can do the same to you.

any block string you want to do, goes over mileena cuz of her hitbox, she can poke you out or just roll and combo you.
you can never really land a block string off a jump because she will duck under your jip
you are stuck using jik and this does not have a good block stun like jip does, so you can not really start a block string after it
since you are not starting strings off jips, good luck trying to do them while you are on the ground. like i mention above, she is going to poke you or just roll under any you try to do.

Jer got to play a lot of matches with Krazyie at NECxii. Krazyies ermac did not win a single match. Might of taken a round or two, but never a whole match. He is the supposed "best" usa ermac and he cant beat a mileena even once.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

We shall play the Sonya Ermac matchup in february, I get the feeling that she does alot better than Cage does.

 

[MK Peanuts]

First of all, Liu Kang is not an even matchup at all. Force Push will only get you so far, and he can punish (i think) your fireballs with a flying dragon kick.
Once he gets on you the average Ermac is done for, Liu is just too fast and his pressure to great for Ermac to start his zoning game. Even if you did,
low and high highballs can trade well enough to be a problem. 4-6 is a solid guess.

I don't believe Ermac's fireball can be punished by flying kick. Flying kick has 16 startup frames. I don't know how negative Ermac's fireball is on block, exactly, but the 16 startup frames plus the time it takes for Liu Kang to move across the screen probably gives you enough time to block. I haven't tested this, though.

 

[QjonPL]

6:4 vs Cyrax? No way, he can trade nets with Ermac's every special move and still get full punish (which means half of our life bar, especially with meter), net is punishable by Ermac only up close, he can safely zone with bombs(+net) and Ermac can do very little about it (recovery is too small to punish with iaTP, you have to predict him throwing a bomb); he forces us to get close to him and when we're in, he stops our offense with his good downpokes.
tl;dr MU is definiteli winnable, but also I'm 100% certaint that it isn't in Ermac's favor.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

It seems as if people wanna believe that Ermac is only BF1, kinda like how Brady thought that Kitana players are only iAFs. Gotta take that into consideration because all replies seem to be just saying that 'Character X can do this to Ermacs special moves.' Ermac doesnt have to spend the whole game doing special moves y'know.

 

[Pagan]

Alright Metzo here's my 2 cents,

3-7 vs Kabal? Please explain this... Ermac is one of the few characters that can make Kabal respect his zoning once he's in grab range. At a certain point Kabal has to switch from zoning to rushdown and this distance is where Ermac can give him problems.

6-4 vs Johnny Cage? I would think this would be an even split since both dominate their respected zones. Just my take on it but I have a lot of JC experience so I might be biased.

4-6 vs Nightwolf? I think if the Ermac plays properly against Nightwolf this is a 5-5 because Nightwolf has a hard time against low pokes as a general rule of thumb. I'm not afraid of Nightwolf's rush and the only thing he can reflect back is airblast so this matchup is probably a 5-5 or something in Ermac's favor imo.

Other than that I either concur or don't have enough match up experience. :top:

 

[zaf]

foxy add me to xbla so we can play =]
ill add the to list of ermacs who are NOT as brady describes them to be.

 

[Metzos]

Being an Ermac main, i think i can shed a little light on some of the matchups here.

First of all, Liu Kang is not an even matchup at all. Force Push will only get you so far, and he can punish (i think) your fireballs with a flying dragon kick.
Once he gets on you the average Ermac is done for, Liu is just too fast and his pressure to great for Ermac to start his zoning game. Even if you did,
low and high highballs can trade well enough to be a problem. 4-6 is a solid guess.

Second, Jade is a 7-3 matchup in favor of Ermac. Shadow Flash is useless against Force Push and her combo's are just a little too short ranged on startup. I think you can punish low boomerang with tele, but that might be risky...either way, a good Ermac should be able to fend off most Jade players with ease.

Cyber Sub should be more balanced out at least but i have minimal experience with that matchup....but just from knowing the tools CSZ possesses it seemsthat he could punish Ermac quite well with dive kicks and EX bombs, although CSZ players are kinda jumpy from what I've seen and Ermac thrives off
of punishing bad jumps.

Beyond that the chart looks good for the most part, a couple tweaks here and there but nothing that hasnt already been said or isnt important.

If you mean LK can punish Ermac's fireballs with FDK from fullscreen you are wrong. He cant. Its safe. About CSZ i ve played many matches against UsedforGLue's CSZ and we came to the point that its clearly in Ermac's favor all the way. About Jade yeah i kinda agree with you its just that i would like an expert Jade to help me here. Other than that from what i ve seen she is no problem for Ermac at all.

 

[Metzos]

6:4 vs Cyrax? No way, he can trade nets with Ermac's every special move and still get full punish (which means half of our life bar, especially with meter), net is punishable by Ermac only up close, he can safely zone with bombs(+net) and Ermac can do very little about it (recovery is too small to punish with iaTP, you have to predict him throwing a bomb); he forces us to get close to him and when we're in, he stops our offense with his good downpokes.
tl;dr MU is definiteli winnable, but also I'm 100% certaint that it isn't in Ermac's favor.

Agreed. I m gonna put it 5-5

 

[Metzos]

Alright Metzo here's my 2 cents,

3-7 vs Kabal? Please explain this... Ermac is one of the few characters that can make Kabal respect his zoning once he's in grab range. At a certain point Kabal has to switch from zoning to rushdown and this distance is where Ermac can give him problems.

6-4 vs Johnny Cage? I would think this would be an even split since both dominate their respected zones. Just my take on it but I have a lot of JC experience so I might be biased.

4-6 vs Nightwolf? I think if the Ermac plays properly against Nightwolf this is a 5-5 because Nightwolf has a hard time against low pokes as a general rule of thumb. I'm not afraid of Nightwolf's rush and the only thing he can reflect back is airblast so this matchup is probably a 5-5 or something in Ermac's favor imo.

Other than that I either concur or don't have enough match up experience. :top:

About Kabal. From what i ve seen from REO's Kabal which i believe it was at DEV there is no way to defeat this BS with his IAGB. If he goes fullscreen there is no way to outzone him and if he gets in your face its very hard to anticipate what he will do cause of the ND cancels.

JC has no way at all to get in against a solid Ermac except EX shadow kicks. Its very risky. Plus he cant punish max ranged TKP's with shadow kicks. If the JC player decides to Shadow Kick ermac and Ermac blocks it we all know what happens after that. Check my matches against Foxy or even ask him and he ll tell you the same.

About NW. You cant zone him but he can. You cant pressure him up close but he can. Plus he can punish your TKP even at max range with shoulder.


EDIT about Kabal: Also dont forget his EX ND which can punish on reaction a TKP with a full combo to reset.

 

[Metzos]

Not punish but they force you to respect them, which opens up her game.

If you're not TKP me at that range(which is hella far) then isn't that exactly what I want?

I meant TKP's OUTSIDE sweep range which you cant punish. Ermac excells at midrange against Kitana.