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General/Other - Ermac Ermac General Discussion Thread

zaf

professor
@zaf have we figured out exactly how many +frames there are in an ex IAB. Is it safe enough to run cancel a b3/f4 mixup ?
Its about +6-+7
You can be armored out if you go for a b3/f4 mix up.
Not entirely sure if a D1 will hit in time. Might be dependent on the match up ( opponents frames on their D1)
 

zaf

professor
@fobley here just watch this video from last night. Nikolass's ermac. Good example of staggering strings and poking to maintain pressure

Start it at 2:40
This is a good series of pressure.

 

fobley

Noob
@fobley Can't believe I forgot to include this in my story book up above, but....

Doing B12 and B124 into block is actually pretty important to do. Very helpful to open people up.
You basically bait them into poking by giving them a free invitation n and then punish them for this.
Good players will catch on to what you are making them do, and then just start going right into a string after B12. This is where you can go back into B124 or B12 D1/D3. It is all mind games.

You basically do B12 or B124 and just crouch block, in anticipation for the opponent to do a D1 or D3.
As soon as you block their poke, you go right into a string. Something like 222 works very well here.
You will end up getting a hit a lot of the time.
Ah, I know what you mean! I did that a lot when I first started with Kano, lol. Would throw out a bunch of f4's during the match and then I would cancel into EX db1 later on and it would catch them most of the time. This is all very helpful, thank you. I've started to be more liberal with my b12 and b124. I am also poring over the Ermac threads here, just trying to expand my game knowledge whenever I can.
 
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Afumba

Noob
The reason I say that is because you can just use Tele-hang and neutral jump 1 or 2 and uppercut for 17%. Then, you can down 1 into back 3 2 1 - or back 1 into 4 for mixups. Then, add in his forward 4 3 or 3 4 and the teleport - and you can punch above your weight class if you just play smart.

It was clearly created as the noob class. The supreme damage scaling applied to his Tele-Hang is proof.

We can easily imagine the damage the Tele-Hang could result in if it wasn't scaled. No bar for an extra string would be absolutely potent and make Mystic the natural choice for everyone - so I get the heavy scaling, but they overdid it - IMO.

I'm sure their reasoning was better be safe than sorry. Unviability, in their eyes, is much more preferable to broken.

It's clear they overdid it though, so fix it.
I know what you are meaning & its exactly why i dont agree. By your logic... Cryomancer Sub Zero can do f42throw for 24% damage. Easy mode 1/4 bar no sweat. Bone Shaper Shinnok is beyond easy to pick up and do well with him.... a blind man could. Ask Scorpion what he has to say on this matter; he would tell ya "bad players heh? Teleport~teleport~teleport till you win the round" I could go on with so many chars... Many variations are easy to pick and play & lots of which are easier to win with as Mystic Ermac too (or as you put ti "punch above your weightclass").

Also most of what you stated is for all Ermac variations. Beside that... MoS can do "SoulBall,SoulRelease,njp,uppercut" for 25%. Too hard?? Remove njp and still 23%. Sill too hard? Just SoulBall,uppercut for 20%. Also any MoS punish is easily mid 30s... everybody can do it after playing 5min with Ermac. The bad player doing 17% hang~uppercut combos will do as easy more damage in MoS. Its not even debatable.

This game is easy to just pick and play in general. You have to get rid of your "bad players beat bad player more easily with character XY cuz its a noob char/variation"-sentiment and move on. This type of thing doesnt matter at all. Whats next? Characters with a projectile are noob cuz bad players will lose just to that.

Even beside all that and bad players aside... playing MoS is as easy as playing Mystic. If i have to rank it and cant use an "equal" statement i´d say that playing MoS is the easiest of all Ermacs variations.

At least i agree on your comment about telehang. Although to be fair... SoulBall gives you a free string for no meter as well. I also dont think it matters how the hang scales really cuz as long as it scales SoulBall will stay superior. In my oppinion anyway. But i dont mind this too much... what Mystic needs is to space better. Make tkp safer and nobody will even remember the unscaled telehang soon after.
 
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GAV

Resolution through knowledge and resolve.
I know what you are meaning & its exactly why i dont agree. By your logic... Cryomancer Sub Zero can do f42throw for 24% damage. Easy mode 1/4 bar no sweat. Bone Shaper Shinnok is beyond easy to pick up and do well with him.... a blind man could. Ask Scorpion what he has to say on this matter; he would tell ya "bad players heh? Teleport~teleport~teleport till you win the round" I could go on with so many chars... Many variations are easy to pick and play & lots of which are easier to win with as Mystic Ermac too (or as you put ti "punch above your weightclass").

Also most of what you stated is for all Ermac variations. Beside that... MoS can do "SoulBall,SoulRelease,njp,uppercut" for 25%. Too hard?? Remove njp and still 23%. Sill too hard? Just SoulBall,uppercut for 20%. Also any MoS punish is easily mid 30s... everybody can do it after playing 5min with Ermac. The bad player doing 17% hang~uppercut combos will do as easy more damage in MoS. Its not even debatable.

This game is easy to just pick and play in general. You have to get rid of your "bad players beat bad player more easily with character XY cuz its a noob char/variation"-sentiment and move on. This type of thing doesnt matter at all. Whats next? Characters with a projectile are noob cuz bad players will lose just to that.

Even beside all that and bad players aside... playing MoS is as easy as playing Mystic. If i have to rank it and cant use an "equal" statement i´d say that playing MoS is the easiest of all Ermacs variations.

At least i agree on your comment about telehang. Although to be fair... SoulBall gives you a free string for no meter as well. I also dont think it matters how the hang scales really cuz as long as it scales SoulBall will stay superior. In my oppinion anyway. But i dont mind this too much... what Mystic needs is to space better. Make tkp safer and nobody will even remember the unscaled telehang soon after.
Well, I wish they thought like you do because then they would probably lower the damage scaling on the Tele-Hang to balance it with the Soul Ball.

The ones you mentioned do take slightly stricter timing. The neutral jump smash uppercut after the Tele-Hang, you really can't mess it up.

It's completely unaffected by almost any amount of online lag or lack of timing or stick skill.
 

Afumba

Noob
Well, I wish they thought like you do because then they would probably lower the damage scaling on the Tele-Hang to balance it with the Soul Ball.

The ones you mentioned do take slightly stricter timing. The neutral jump smash uppercut after the Tele-Hang, you really can't mess it up.

It's completely unaffected by almost any amount of online lag or lack of timing or stick skill.
Well ok if we are talking about ppls that dont even know what a pad/stick is ok... than i agree but other than that, cmon now :)
Against such a guy just pick Scorpion and do nothing but teleport. No matter if it hits or not just do it till you win, which you will. This guy will then cry about why Scorpion has a teleport infinite. lol
Seriously no matter how much you have online lag or how bad your timing is... there are tons of ways, even for a bad player, to get more than 17% easy.

Anyways... i do get your point but i think most characters have such a "noob tactic" as long as we agree that the person at least knows what a pad is and how to press 2-3 buttons in succession. Especially considering that 17% is no big deal in this game, a raw uppercut does nearly that much which you see online ppls spam all the time. 17%... You cant even call that a combo honestly.
 
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Dope Dojo

The Bomb Diggity
Would anyone mind if I post a video of some matches of me vs a Jax player? This is the most viewed thread in the forum and honestly I got blown up 23-8 with no idea what I should have done differently.
 

Pzykoe

Noob
I'm new to Mortal Kombat in general, as Ermac being the most interesting to me, I want to find a way of getting better not only at the game but also with Ermac. Can anyone help in suggesting me where to start?
 
I haven't posted in a bit but I've been lurking and learning alot from the posts videos and advanced strings you guys have listed here. Excellent job and thank you all! I definitely see an improvement in my ermac play just from the month I've been here learning from you all. Here are 2 videos from my most recent matches online:

Ermac vs Jax

Ermac vs Ermac
 

Dope Dojo

The Bomb Diggity
1) lab to learn poke ranges and optimal bnb's

2) lab to learn punishes to common moves (teleports, slides, dashes etc) practice punishes until it's muscle memory.

3) find people to play offline

4) if 3 is not an option find GOOD players to play in sets online. You won't learn anything playing people in ranked except how to pick up bad habits. Also you won't learn anything in a single 1v1 match at least not compared to a ft5.

5) find people who play a variety of characters so you get lots of match up experience. Whether you're playing them online in a set or in online practice mode.

6) ask questions

7) if you find something hard to punish, when you're done playing go back to the lab and use the character as an opponent so you can learn their frame data and whether or not you can punish and how.
 

Dope Dojo

The Bomb Diggity
I'd like to take a moment to say how nice it's been to start incorporating B124 into my block strings. People love to poke afterwards and eat a free D1. Which of course leads to all sorts of other fun things ^_^
 

zaf

professor
10 matches between myself and Big D. I cracked so many times, need to break down what he's doing. I've never seen some of those combos before.
Videos aren't loading ?
Could just be me... but I was just watching a video....

EDIT: yea just me. let me fix the issue and Ill watch these and tell you whats up

EDIT2: watching on the ipad, is bigd the klassic ermac?
 
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14K

Noob
Sup guys, So i was taking a closer look at the tipical max dmg 1 bar corner combo and kept feeling like there was room for more dmg%, be it only 1%, but its just something to keep in mind i guess (if you dont mind taking him out of the corner...)


Sorry to break the conversation, plz continue as you where lolol XD
 

zaf

professor
Game 1
Good stagger pressure by Big D. He does "A". So he pressures and goes into "A", then he staggers and goes into "B", where as you are still looking for a way to beat "A". Example, He does B124 into D3. It hits so he can go into continued pressure, he gets a knockdown. He does another string after this, 111, and instead of poking again he crosses you up and goes for continued pressure this way. You poked in this situation allowing him to get the jump and continue pressure. Also during his stagger pressure, he realised you were still stand blocking so he went for multiple B3's. All of which worked.

Game 2
He was reacting very well to what you did. He whiff punished well with teleport and F4.
He was also doing much higher damaging combos then you were. This can definitely add up. You also dropped a few.

Game 3
He out pressured you with stagger and he got to play his game more then you did.
You also do nothing about him running at you, then pressing a string. You can D1 or D3 people out of this

Game 4
He out staggers you when pressuring. You stagger but it does not look like there is a gameplan. To either condition him one way or another, where as Big D always has a goal with his stagger. To hit you low, overhead, grab or get a crossup

Game 5
Better stagger from you in this game so far. He is anti-airing you a lot more then you are to him.
Your stagger and pressure seems more delayed then his is. Like I mentioned in Game4, it looks like your gameplan is not constructed 100%, so there are moments of hesitation when it looks like you might not be sure what to do next and he takes advantage of this to get the momentum back.

Game 6
You are getting hit a lot pressing buttons. Either trying to anti air him, or doing something on wake up. Try to stay more composed.
In the 2nd round, you only have him on knockdown once. You got hit by his wake up, because you ran in full force which was a little obvious.

Game 7
Too hesitant with your pressure. Be more confident and know what you are looking for. Look how your stagger makes Big D behave and punish that behavior. F4 worked well for you during your stagger, try to go back to it more.

Game 8
You need to work on optimizing your combos. Also, a lot of the time when you end the combo in lift, you just run right in. Its easy to see you want to continue pressure, so big d just jumped out of it. Running in after a knockdown is too telling. Need to block more or get a harder read on what they will do. NJP will beat ermac armor on soul burst, teleport, and you should be able to NJP a jump.

Game 9
Pretty much everything else that I have said.

Game 10
Good interuption of his pressure mid match, but going for the low overhead cost you there. MIght of been better to go into stagger on the + frames of the D3. Work on your corner combos! You lose position a lot of the time because of this

Hope this helps. I am at work, so I had to look at the matches when I had downtime. I can always go back to the matches and dissect them more for you. This is also all constructive, do not take this to heart. Only here to help.
 

Fusion_Quake

KH Fusion
Sup guys, So i was taking a closer look at the tipical max dmg 1 bar corner combo and kept feeling like there was room for more dmg%, be it only 1%, but its just something to keep in mind i guess (if you dont mind taking him out of the corner...)


Sorry to break the conversation, plz continue as you where lolol XD

if you end the combo in uppercut into a second uppercut it does 51% and leaves them in the corner. so instead of njp after ex lift just run in uppercut, uppercut.

EDIT: sorry i didn't realize you did standing 4 ex lift. if you do 222 ex lift, then the ender i said it'll do 51% and still leave them in the corner
 
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14K

Noob
if you end the combo in uppercut into a second uppercut it does 51% and leaves them in the corner. so instead of njp after ex lift just run in uppercut, uppercut.

EDIT: sorry i didn't realize you did standing 4 ex lift. if you do 222 ex lift, then the ender i said it'll do 51% and still leave them in the corner
Cool nice to know, ill try them out, ill edit my vid if those work out for me as leaving them in the corner is always preferable, cheers

EDIT: Lololol if you do my original combo, but instead of d1xxFB you do another D2 it does 52%... ill make a vid on it.

 
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Dope Dojo

The Bomb Diggity
Thanks @zaf I watched some of these back before work today. I didn't go for bigger damage because I have a hard time doing certain combos or setups online. For example after the standard f2d12 ji3 teleport combo I just do d3 instead of b12 F4 to net that few extra percents. I also don't add b12 to the vortex combos or bother trying to do F4 d1 f4 soul ball. Big D capitalized with his Combos online better then I did.

I'm used to staggering a b3, f4 or grab mixup off of a blocked 11 or occasionally f2 if the opponent doesn't know the matchup. I just discovered the wonder of the B124 frame trap about 2 days ago so I haven't worked any high low mixups off of it yet. I just use it to check people with d1, which I thought would anti air them accordingly if they jump off of wake up. What I'm finding though is when I try to jump after block strings or on wake up in get poked and comboed every time, but whatever it is I'm doing they slip right through it figure
 

zaf

professor
Thanks @zaf I watched some of these back before work today. I didn't go for bigger damage because I have a hard time doing certain combos or setups online. For example after the standard f2d12 ji3 teleport combo I just do d3 instead of b12 F4 to net that few extra percents. I also don't add b12 to the vortex combos or bother trying to do F4 d1 f4 soul ball. Big D capitalized with his Combos online better then I did.

I'm used to staggering a b3, f4 or grab mixup off of a blocked 11 or occasionally f2 if the opponent doesn't know the matchup. I just discovered the wonder of the B124 frame trap about 2 days ago so I haven't worked any high low mixups off of it yet. I just use it to check people with d1, which I thought would anti air them accordingly if they jump off of wake up. What I'm finding though is when I try to jump after block strings or on wake up in get poked and comboed every time, but whatever it is I'm doing they slip right through it figure
What B124 frame trap ?
 

Dope Dojo

The Bomb Diggity
Not really a frame trap I guess but taking advantage of it being 0 on block to poke someone and go for a mixup
 
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