Tech Ending combos with 23

[Mikman360]

This reminds me a lot of tech that was found for Jade in MK9. It was really good, but it sacrificed too much damage to be effective. I appreciate the video break down tho, and it will also help other forum users who see this months from now instead of wading through 50 pages of general discussion.

Basic BnB vs. 23 Ender
132: 33% vs. 28% (5% loss)
B1U2: 32% vs. 30% (2% loss)
F3: 33% vs. 29% (4% loss)

It's not a huge damage loss.

If you're curious, the combos are:

132, Ji2, 1, 323, 23
B1U2, F3, D2, Ji3, 323, 23
F3, Ji2, 1, 323, 23

All the strings get you punished, unless you meter burn. If I am going to meterburn, I could take 40, do a dash and meterburn a f3.

Are people really still thinking this? DS has only 1 punishable string that should ever be used outside of combos, and that's B222. Even then there's many ways to make that safe.

 

[TakeAChance]

Basic BnB vs. 23 Ender
132: 33% vs. 28% (5% loss)
B1U2: 32% vs. 30% (2% loss)
F3: 33% vs. 29% (4% loss)

It's not a huge damage loss.

If you're curious, the combos are:

132, Ji2, 1, 323, 23
B1U2, F3, D2, Ji3, 323, 23
F3, Ji2, 1, 323, 23




Are people really still thinking this? DS has only 1 punishable string that should ever be used outside of combos, and that's B222. Even then there's many ways to make that safe.

A wakeup blows up every string except the mb f3. That's what I was implying. It's a gamble. I am not arguing against the tech. I am just saying that I personally would rather go for the damage and dash forward to achieve the same mixup with a mb f3. Just my opinion, hell lord knows I have been wrong before.

 

[Mikman360]

That's not a matter of setups or this tech in any way though, that's just dealing with wakeups in general.

Wakeups are ****ing godly in this game.

 

[NYCj360]

I cannot merge it cause i dont have mod powers here. I forget who is the Deathstroke mod but if you guys know i would tag them and ask them to do it.

EDIT- J360 work your magic sir.

J360 if you're the Deathstroke mod please don't touch this thread let it be. Like TakeAChance mentioned people don't need to go through 50 pages of General Discussion just to read what I broke down in the video.

sorry sir but he is right, this is the same thing, i have to merge the thread

 

[Deleted member 5032]

karaokelove maybe?

I just wrote the guide, I don't have mod privileges. I also haven't touched the game since about a week after Scorpion's release.

 

[Axel_Redd]

23 doesnt keep em down all that long -_-

 

[Mikman360]

Crathen

I've been doing some experiments with different enders, always wanting an ender with Sword Flip that would leave me in a good range to use F3. However, our basic enders of 12 xx Flip and F23 xx Flip leave them in a range that bothers me.

1 dash into F3 just barely reaches (and as a result, some smaller characters can avoid it or jump out of it).
2 dashes into F3 gets you so darn close that you're touching the opponent. Wakeups will hit you, and F3 will sail right over them if you're early.

Your ender with 23 is a good solution to maintain pressure, but I still enjoy the distance covered by Flip enders (because DS' corner game is nuts). It also cuts down on a bit of damage. So I theorized this:

End combos with 2 xx Flip.
Example combo: B1U2, F3, 1, 323, 2 xx Flip

This leaves the opponent in a range that 1 dash will put you in about sweep distance. Why is this good? Certain close ranged wakeups will miss you at this range. F3 WILL hit any opponent even if they guard by holding back or crouching. If they jump, F3 smacks them right out of the air. The opponent can back dash, but then you have other options like guns.

B1U2, F3, 1, 323, 23 = 28% (32% normally, 4% loss)
B1U2, F3, 1, 323, 2 xx Flip = 30% (2% loss)
So we're losing less damage this way as well.

What do you think?

 

[RM Jonnitti]

Crathen
a whole bunch of shit

i'd say its matchup dependent. i like pushing them farther into the corner and i also like the f23 xx pizza cutter ender so i can backdash aftewards and create distance. id say against characters that don't have to respect zoning like flash (idk why you would willingly play that matchup) or characters like sinestro or raven that have limited options up close, this should be the go to choice.

 

[Mikman360]

Well if you're ABLE to corner them, that's always the go to option. Corners are heaven for the Stroke, but I'm talking about combos that you KNOW will end midscreen.

But yes, this is considering that DS WANTS to be maintaining pressure in the matchup.

 

[RM Jonnitti]

Well if you're ABLE to corner them, that's always the go to option. Corners are heaven for the Stroke, but I'm talking about combos that you KNOW will end midscreen.

But yes, this is considering that DS WANTS to be maintaining pressure in the matchup.

i still don't think f23 flip is a bad choice. it also depends on what wakeups are available in the matchups

 

[Mikman360]

Oh it's never a "bad" choice, but I always love pressuring with F3 after a HKD, and was looking for an ender that would promote that kind of option.

 

[Axel_Redd]

i cant seem to land 23 after ji2, 132, j2, 1, 323, they fall too fast

 

[RM Jonnitti]

Oh it's never a "bad" choice, but I always love pressuring with F3 after a HKD, and was looking for an ender that would promote that kind of option.

i wouldn't say that it doesn't necessarily take anything away from F3 if you end with f23 xx pizza cutter. it really depends on wakeups too. if they have dogshit wakeups you dont really lose much because they are probably going to block anyway.

i cant seem to land 23 after ji2, 132, j2, 1, 323, they fall too fast

yeah it seems pretty strict

 

[Mikman360]

i wouldn't say that it doesn't necessarily take anything away from F3 if you end with f23 xx pizza cutter. it really depends on wakeups too. if they have dogshit wakeups you dont really lose much because they are probably going to block anyway.

But see, 1 dash into F3 after a normal F23 ender doesn't reach, and 2 dashes puts you so close that F3 hops over them.

 

[RM Jonnitti]

But see, 1 dash into F3 after a normal F23 ender doesn't reach, and 2 dashes puts you so close that F3 hops over them.

yes but it oculd put you at a better spot if they decide to wake up. like if they whiff in your face and you can b3 them for it. just a thought

 

[Mikman360]

yes but it oculd put you at a better spot if they decide to wake up. like if they whiff in your face and you can b3 them for it. just a thought

B3? B3 has less range than F3.

 

[RM Jonnitti]

B3? B3 has less range than F3.

i was thinking something like a DP type wakeup (superman, flash) would whiff and they land right in your face. F3 might be a better option, im in class right now and can't test it but it should be something to consider. this is all theoretical stuff. or something like lightning cage that is plus on block you would want it to whiff.

 

[Mikman360]

Most anti-air wakeups are mad vulnerable on block already. It's probably easier to just block and 132 punish.

Lightning cage you just neutral jump whiff punish.

 

[RM Jonnitti]

Most anti-air wakeups are mad vulnerable on block already. It's probably easier to just block and 132 punish.

Lightning cage you just neutral jump whiff punish.

hmm okay then. i can see this being usefull for unclashable damage then if anything but still, all theory. ill test it out when i get the chance to

 

[drywall]

I've been doing some experiments with different enders, always wanting an ender with Sword Flip that would leave me in a good range to use F3. However, our basic enders of 12 xx Flip and F23 xx Flip leave them in a range that bothers me.

I use d1xFlip. It leaves them in range for dash-F3 or crossups. The anti wakeup game is very character specific but you can stuff or get around most of the opponents options. You can then start adding in F23xFlip to change the spacing on wakeup for mindgames.

 

[Mikman360]

I use d1xFlip. It leaves them in range for dash-F3 or crossups. The anti wakeup game is very character specific but you can stuff or get around most of the opponents options. You can then start adding in F23xFlip to change the spacing on wakeup for mindgames.

D1 works too, although it yields less damage.

 

[Axel_Redd]

hey, i can't seem to land the 23 at the end of his long bnb's.

 

[Mikman360]

hey, i can't seem to land the 23 at the end of his long bnb's.

You have to slip in a 1 before the 323. Putting a 1 before 323 gives you the largest window to land moves after 323.

 

[Axel_Redd]

oh, alright, i'll try that. which combo would it be then? ji2 132, j2 , 1, 323, 23?

 

[Red Reaper]

This is much easier than what I was doing for hard knockdown pressure...
The set up at least...


Good shit!