What's new

D'vorah General Discussion

Second Saint

A man with too many names.
Honestly, she'd probably still be pretty bad even with 12~tele. Not having even a 14f mid is such an incredible weakness it can't be overstated.

I am very firmly on board with strep + tele as the best kustom though. You basically get most of the buzzed setups, some specific setups, and better damage while doing it. F22 being so unsafe on it's own is usually a problem though.
 
Since its not in the thread yet just FYI amped bombardier beetle is not going away on hit anymore. Thank you NRS for making major changes and not releasing patch notes. This is actually pretty useful imo but I don't think better than strep.
 

Second Saint

A man with too many names.
It's funny, that's the same way they buffed strep not going away on hit. It's not in any patch notes as far as I know.
 
To be specific, amped Bombardier doesn't go away after it's started moving.

Ringo pointed out on Discord that bombardier makes 1-bar Cocoon combos do 350 dmg now, and makes for a safe empty teleport attempt if you amp it from farther away.
 

Arqwart

D'Vorah for KP2 copium
To be specific, amped Bombardier doesn't go away after it's started moving.

Ringo pointed out on Discord that bombardier makes 1-bar Cocoon combos do 350 dmg now, and makes for a safe empty teleport attempt if you amp it from farther away.
Been playing around with Beetle since this buff and I actually like Beetle now.
  1. Beetle doesn't have the insane combo damage scaling of Strep
  2. Beetle itself does 7% (low) or 8% (mid)
  3. Hugely plus on hit and allows a combo state
  4. Makes cashing out damage better in BnBs (as mentioned above, you can get an easy 1-bar 351 damage via F13xxKiss(amp), Beetle, B34, F13xxInfested)
  5. Creates hard-to-blockables, especially after Kiss combos
  6. Is a low even un-amp'd if it never gets the chance to get off the ground
Is it better than Strep? Hell no. Is it actually fun to use now? Yes.
 

Second Saint

A man with too many names.
Been playing around with Beetle since this buff and I actually like Beetle now.
  1. Beetle doesn't have the insane combo damage scaling of Strep
  2. Beetle itself does 7% (low) or 8% (mid)
  3. Hugely plus on hit and allows a combo state
  4. Makes cashing out damage better in BnBs (as mentioned above, you can get an easy 1-bar 351 damage via F13xxKiss(amp), Beetle, B34, F13xxInfested)
  5. Creates hard-to-blockables, especially after Kiss combos
  6. Is a low even un-amp'd if it never gets the chance to get off the ground
Is it better than Strep? Hell no. Is it actually fun to use now? Yes.
That's all I can ask for in a setup tool to be honest. I've been at this a long while, and I have to go back to some very broke games to look at any one special that's better than strep. What's your go to hard to blockable amp bombardier beetle/ jump in setup?
 

Arqwart

D'Vorah for KP2 copium
That's all I can ask for in a setup tool to be honest. I've been at this a long while, and I have to go back to some very broke games to look at any one special that's better than strep. What's your go to hard to blockable amp bombardier beetle/ jump in setup?
The most consistent setup midscreen when they have defensive meter is Kiss amp, Beetle, JIK, F1xxBeetle amp. This isn't really a hard-to-blockable setup, though, as committing to a HTB is too easy to beat midscreen if they have defensive bar. You simply plop down the Beetle amp after the combo and wait to see what they wake up with (if anything). Back roll you can chase down along with your Beetle. Forward roll you can punish (though Beetle will miss). ALL wakeup U3/U2s get hit by Beetle with a long hitstun you can combo off of (though aerial U2s like Mileena and Geras cause them to be in the air after). No wakeup you can either react to and immediately JI1 or simply use the Beetle's plus frames to pressure them. If they back away after getting up, chase them with the Beetle as you would after a back roll.

If they have no defensive bar for wakeups midscreen, do Kiss amp, Beetle, JIK, F13xxBeetle amp followed immediately by a jump-in 1. You then just go into F13 and confirm as needed into whatever you'd like. Only issue here is that the opponent has time to jump at you and beat you with an air-to-air so it's pretty gimmicky.

You can also do Kiss amp, dash forward and delay Beetle, F4/hop if you wanna just get some pressure going. The beetle is a low at point blank even when not amp'd so you can cause a HTB as they land from Kiss.

Still working on corner setups and one bar setups. May get back to it while I'm eating lunch later.
 

Second Saint

A man with too many names.
Assuming tele/bomb variation, what is the best combo after raw teleport?
Real talk, there is never a best combo with a setup character. There's a best situation you want after the combo at this time.
The most consistent setup midscreen when they have defensive meter is Kiss amp, Beetle, JIK, F1xxBeetle amp. This isn't really a hard-to-blockable setup, though, as committing to a HTB is too easy to beat midscreen if they have defensive bar. You simply plop down the Beetle amp after the combo and wait to see what they wake up with (if anything). Back roll you can chase down along with your Beetle. Forward roll you can punish (though Beetle will miss). ALL wakeup U3/U2s get hit by Beetle with a long hitstun you can combo off of (though aerial U2s like Mileena and Geras cause them to be in the air after). No wakeup you can either react to and immediately JI1 or simply use the Beetle's plus frames to pressure them. If they back away after getting up, chase them with the Beetle as you would after a back roll.

If they have no defensive bar for wakeups midscreen, do Kiss amp, Beetle, JIK, F13xxBeetle amp followed immediately by a jump-in 1. You then just go into F13 and confirm as needed into whatever you'd like. Only issue here is that the opponent has time to jump at you and beat you with an air-to-air so it's pretty gimmicky.

You can also do Kiss amp, dash forward and delay Beetle, F4/hop if you wanna just get some pressure going. The beetle is a low at point blank even when not amp'd so you can cause a HTB as they land from Kiss.

Still working on corner setups and one bar setups. May get back to it while I'm eating lunch later.
So, I actually found an interesting little unbreakable setup that lets you vary up your pressure. You can do amp tele, dash forward beetle, db1, and that's actually a 100% meaty puddle whether they break or not, and you're at max f4 range. Does about 200 damage, not counting chip from puddle, and it gets you about as tight an overhead low as she can do without flippin out, with enough distance and plus frames to still deal with u3's and rolls.

Though if you really want to maximize your plus frames and not deal with potential breakers, I think amp tele, db1, dash forward f1~beetle is the way to go. I do the same thing with strep, because if the f1 hits them high enough, you're a whole +13. I was hoping that since it ends so close I could make the beetle hit as a low from that, but so far no success.
 

Second Saint

A man with too many names.
Wait, wait, wait. I did it.

Beat 100% of wakeup options in one setup, without even reacting to anything.

[starter] amp tele, forward dash beetle, (beetle hits) 2~beetle. This is tight and I do a second forward dash before 2~beetle to help me time it. This way, the beetle beats u3/u2/back roll/delayed wakeup on it's own. You do a ji1 and it will combo off anything the beetle hits, and if done at the right timing will auto correct and beat a forward roll.
 

Arqwart

D'Vorah for KP2 copium
Wait, wait, wait. I did it.

Beat 100% of wakeup options in one setup, without even reacting to anything.

[starter] amp tele, forward dash beetle, (beetle hits) 2~beetle. This is tight and I do a second forward dash before 2~beetle to help me time it. This way, the beetle beats u3/u2/back roll/delayed wakeup on it's own. You do a ji1 and it will combo off anything the beetle hits, and if done at the right timing will auto correct and beat a forward roll.
Gunna need a video on this one for timing. Geras and Mileena U2s blow me up when I lab it.
 

Second Saint

A man with too many names.
Damn it, only works like this on bad u2's. That's disappointing. It does seem to shut down more u2's from f1~beetle than 2~beetle though. Also Lao's u3 with it's dumb aerial hurtbox won't let you jump either.

You can probably just wait a second then react to forward roll and f2 everything else, but I wanted a brain dead auto pilot setup that worked on everyone and took away all options! Is that too much to ask NRS?
 

Arqwart

D'Vorah for KP2 copium
EDIT: cleaned up formatting, updated language for consistency / readability, added damage info, and added video example for reference.

NOTE: this was tested assuming the opponent is entirely in the corner, not stepped away from it. It should work if they're only a little bit away from the corner as you do a forward JIK as part of it, but testing of distance still needs to be done.


Beetle / Widow's Kiss corner setup obtained.. sorta.

Kiss amp -> Beetle -> JIK (while in the falling part of your jump arc) -> 2xxBeetle -> NJP1 -> F13 -> hit confirm into whatever. If you have another bar, you can proceed to loop this with a hit confirm of Widow's Kiss into another setup.

-Beats forward roll as it eats NJP1 every time. As noted above, you need to throw out the NJP1 quickly or it won't punish
-Beats U3s as they ignore the Beetle but get punished by NJP1. See notable exceptions below
-Beats U2s as they eat the Beetle and the NJP1. See notable exceptions below
-"Loses" to delayed wakeup as that avoids the Beetle. Potentially still enforces pressure with the NJP1, but it can be anti-air'd or flawless blocked if they're on their toes. This is the only consistent defensive option.

Assuming a F13 starter and either the Beetle or the jump 1 hits, you're looking at 24-28% damage per setup (excluding any chip after the setup). As mentioned above, the setup easily loops into itself if you have another bar which leads to another 24-31%. This means comboing into the setup takes ~1/4 of the opponent's life followed immediately by one of four things:

(1)A combo punish of their wakeup for an easy 16-24% depending on ending special and if their wakeup got hit by the bug
(2)A hard-to-blockable setup that, if successful, leads to a 20-24% damage combo (16-20% + 1.8% chip from beetle if they successfully block the bug)
(3)Either of the above but hit confirmed into another Widow's Kiss for yet another 24-28% damage and another setup. That's ~1/2 of the opponent's life gone and they now get to eat a wakeup punish, HTB, or pressure
(4)Combo off or pressure with NJP1 if they delayed wakeup. Immediately combo if they got hit or begin Katipo Rush pressure shenanigans if blocked

So assuming a best case scenario where you have two bars and lead into the first setup via a F13 hit confirm, get two U2 wakeup punishes with the setups so they eat the beetle, and use Widow's Kiss as the ender for the final combo to maximize damage: ~27% (276.38) one-bar starter combo to get first setup + ~31% (312.18) one-bar combo after first setup punish + ~24% (246.74) meterless combo after second setup punish for a total of ~83% (835.30) of their life.

Guaranteed to Eat It
Baraka
Cassie
D'Vorah
Frost
Jacqui
Jax
Joker
Kano
Kollector
Kotal Kahn
Mileena
Nightwolf
Noob Saibot
Rambo
Robocop
Sindel
Spawn
Sub-Zero
Johnny (see U3 note below)
Kabal (see U3 note below)
Kung Lao (see U3 note below)
Scorpion (see U3 note below)
Skarlet (see U3 note below)
Cetrion (see U2 note below)
Geras (see U2 note below)
Raiden (see U2 note below)
Rain (see U2 note below)
Sheeva (see U2 note below)

Notable U3s
Johnny:
advances so NJP1 whiffs. Have to use NJK
Kabal: has a very large upward hitbox so timing needs to be pretty on point. I advise doing jump back 1 -> F22 instead of NJP1 -> F13
Kung Lao: still works, but you need to delay your NJP1 or it'll whiff as he has a low hitbox during recovery
Scorpion: advances and recovers fast enough that NJP1 doesn't punish. Have to use NJK
Skarlet: 9f startup with 2f active. Timing needs to be pretty on point

Notable U2s
Cetrion:
8f startup with a large upward hitbox and early active frames, but doesn't hit very far forward. Use jump back 1 -> F22 instead of NJP1 -> F13
Geras: 9f startup so timing needs to be on point.
Raiden: 9f startup so timing needs to be on point, but doesn't hit very far forward. Use jump back 1 -> F22 instead of NJP1 -> F13
Rain: advances. Nothing whiffs, but just be aware for input purposes as it advances far enough to swap sides
Sheeva: 8f startup that trades with bug unless your timing is flawless, but doesn't hit very far forward. Use jump back 1 -> F22 instead of NJP1 -> F13

Loses / Trades / Frame Perfect
Sonya U2 - Loses:
8f startup and teleports her a step forward as it starts so it avoids the bug a vast majority of the time and hits D'Vorah every time (jump back doesn't work either)

Fujin U2 - Trades: 10f startup and is active super early with a massive hitbox everywhere in front of Fujin. Appears to only ever trade.
Terminator U2 - Trades: 8f startup and is active super early with a massive hitbox everywhere in front of Term. Appears to only ever trade.

Erron Black U3 - Frame Perfect: 8f startup with a massive hitbox everywhere in front of Erron. Timing has to be flawless or it will just trade
Kitana U2 - Frame Perfect: 8f startup with a massive hitbox everywhere in front of Kitana. Timing has to be flawless or it will just trade
Liu Kang U2 - Frame Perfect: 8f startup with a massive hitbox everywhere in front of Liu. Timing has to be flawless or it will just trade
Shang Tsung U2 - Frame Perfect: 8f startup with a massive hitbox everywhere in front of Shang. Timing has to be flawless or it will just trade

If they don't do any wakeup, it's a hard-to-blockable. However, it's also a consistent HTB that's low -> OH every time from what I've seen so far. There's no way based on timing to get the order of the low/OH to change so a knowledgeable opponent can learn and read it. However, it's a pretty damn fast HTB and the setup allows for alterations based on whether you think they're going to do a wakeup.

Here it is in action on Geras. Accidentally fucked the Beetle input on the delayed wakeup piece, but it's the same outcome either way.
 
Last edited:

Second Saint

A man with too many names.
Also, I'd like to point out that all you have to do to cover delays is do the 2~beetle slightly later. It makes covering other options less certain, but as far as visual tells that something different is happening, it's pretty subtle.
 

Second Saint

A man with too many names.
Alright, so applying the methods used in these bomb setups, I decided to explore meaty strep options more. Results are very promising.

[Starter] amp tele, forward dash strep, d2. This gives you a very meaty strep projectile and takes u2's and wakeup buttons 100% off the table. Then, when you do ji1, with a slightly delayed timing (I start my jump when they hit the ground), you take away u3's and delay wakeups, and by delaying the actual input of 1, you cover both directions of rolls. Delaying the input of 1 opens you up to potential AA attempts by people who block the bug high, then go for a s1 or poke to AA with, though this will vary across the cast.

Alternatively, you can do a neutral jump 1 with the same timing from the same setup, and it will beat everything but back rolls, and you get that perfectly spaced j1 that every D'vorah loves.

You can do this in the corner with [starter], strep, b4, immediate neutral jump 1. It covers 100% of wakeups, rolls, delays, and probably even most flawless block u2's since you're so spaced out. There might be a more damaging way to get it, but I haven't found it. Sadly the d2 just knocks them out of the corner.

Bonus: If you use amp strep, they're actually at a good range for 2 bug throw combos.
 

Second Saint

A man with too many names.
bomby, b34, etc doesn't work, hence the question
Well, that's a side switch combo, so you wouldn't want to do it most of the time anyways. And the trick that isn't mentioned about it is that you're whiffing b3 and just having the second hit pop them up. I was wondering how the hell it was supposed to work for a bit myself.

But in general, you can treat it like other teleport combos, but replace puddle with beetle. Something like f13~amp tele, beetle, ji2, f13~df2 gives you an easy 340 with no side switch.

For general setups, well we've got writeups on a few possible ones since that post.
 

Arqwart

D'Vorah for KP2 copium
Added some more info and a video to my Beetle post. Apologies in advance for the video quality.
 

Raider

Warrior
My biggest issue with her might be the fact that she feels so incomplete without Parasite. These strings should have been part of her base moves. Not an "ability" that you can equip. I seriously believe that they took them away before releasing her and made them into ability. They are not even that good. Good luck getting online 2 out of 3 Krushing Blows that are tied to them! It sucks that you have to waste a slot on them, making her options limited if you want them.
 
Bombardier Debbie does 336 unbreakable damage. Or, well, that's if they breakaway, same string does 325 if they don't. But you get the point.

The usual f13 cocoon bombardier, into nothing more than j2 d2. Tested on a few characters, didn't manage to miss even once.