Dudes, this patch is actually... pretty good

[SHAOLIN]

Tekken 7 has now a Wi-Fi filter.
DBFZ Season 3 allows you to choose between 3 assist.
GG Strive will have rollback netcode on release.

You know what's common among those three statements? These were requested by the community & was given to them.

Why can't we get the same respect?

 

[Ilthuain]

As someone who abused the hell out of down-poke-into-throw, I can say that yes, this patch is a major change.

 

[Ilthuain]

Tekken 7 has now a Wi-Fi filter.
DBFZ Season 3 allows you to choose between 3 assist.
GG Strive will have rollback netcode on release.

You know what's common among those three statements? These were requested by the community & was given to them.

Why can't we get the same respect?

The MK community wanted some attention paid to down-pokes, hit boxes, punishing FBs, customs in ranked, and throws. All of those things were addressed.

What would "respect" look like to you? Should NRS implement every single community ask?

 

[Zviko]

Down poke changes, jailing and custom variations have been among the most requested and we got it. Plus the input buffer on the offensive. These changes are huge. I don't get the hate.

 

[spidey300]

apparently nrs had good community reception until they realized the part where they dealt with the community. now they pretty much go radio silence with a couple responses here and there until a kast. their devs are boomers that don't care about the competitive aspect heavily or guys that just don't wanna talk. in tekken harada and murray are both headasses but they aren't like ed and tyler. capcom had ono who loved this shit but made headass decisions but their new guys love this shit and talk about the road ahead for sf5 when they can. arc is communicating a lot more at least for strive but strive has some shitty development mindsets.

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

Tekken 7 has now a Wi-Fi filter.
DBFZ Season 3 allows you to choose between 3 assist.
GG Strive will have rollback netcode on release.

You know what's common among those three statements? These were requested by the community & was given to them.

Why can't we get the same respect?

I understand that frustration, there are plenty things wrong. Strings not functioning properly to overlooked frame data and glitches or bad character design where many characters get great KBs/Tools while others lack completely.

But this game is very hard to balance properly. I'm glad they are doing things slow this time around. We know their last games had the approach of major nerfs/buffs and huge changes that resulted in chaos. Ar least this time they are slowly tweaking and seeing where the chips fall with game data and pro player feedback.

I know the lower tier characters need some much needed changes but small changes could create a huge leap in tiers and other consequences so I think they are hesitant.
They are addressing quite a few well requested changes and gave every character the ability to jail off pokes. 6f FB is a pretty good change.
We shall see, I heard from NRS that we have an upcoming patch but they are still collecting data and monitoring. The best we can do is point out design flaws with malfunctions and irregularities with universal tools and hope for the best.

From what I've seen, they believe certain characters are playing the meta fine even with their flaws and they are afraid if they add fixes it might skyrocket those characters to S or create a problem.

 

[DixieFlatline78]

People really flipping out that the balance changes are limited when the poke meta got re balanced and every character got a multitude of new game plans. The three new characters seem to be a hit too.

With the hurtbox adjustments and offense buffer, several characters got indirect buffs like Johnny, Kano, and Baraka. Even Shao Kahn, who didnt get significant balance changes, has something enforceable up close, which was the biggest reason he was bottom tier in the first place. This patch probably put Kano and Jax on the map too.

It seems pretty good to me tbqh

 

[Ilthuain]

their devs are boomers that don't care about the competitive aspect heavily...

Gen Xers. Not Boomers. Ed's on the cusp, but dude is totally an Xer at heart.

Also, it looks to me that this is the strongest competitive MK game since... ever. Tiers are tight, the practice mode is stacked with features, online is great, there are special options for tournament settings, they hire tournament players for QA and design positions... like, how could you come to the conclusion that they don't care? Is it because there are some useless moves, because I hate to break it to you, but all fighting games have those.

So what else, specifically, should they do?

 

[NaughtySenpai]

Just the poke meta alone being neutered changes everything.
Like, you can walk away AFTER you block a fucking down one
Now they are indeed a tool to stop pressure, not to start one

Dunno what you mean. I start pressure with pokes all the time ever since I can hit confirm them into jails and poke grab is not really dead, you just start to grab when your jails get blocked.

 

[NaughtySenpai]

Is this patch a good step in the right direction- yes

has nrs been extremely slow and ineffective at sorting out glaring issues- yes

did people have expectations of some decent overhaul to individual balance after numerous patches that were big nothings and towers of time changes- yes

call everyone a crybaby- i call you guys bootlickers who need to play other games and see developers with better communication, community interaction put in 10x the effort.

Like Namco selling you frame data and call delay-based netcode rollback and selling pay 2 win characters?
NRS is by far the best fighting game developer around these days, even if their balance patches are shit.

Only things I dislike about this patch:

1. My character is trash
2. No WIFI filter still
3. The short hop buff is overkill

Everything else is pretty good and I wish we had gotten anti airs, but whatever.

 

[Lex Luthor II]

Sub is insanely stupid now. He is one of my mains....now he is so....dumb.
I would not be surprised if he is top 3 now.

What changed that made him so good now?

 

[NaughtySenpai]

What changed that made him so good now?

He doesn't have to sacrifice slide for amped iceball anymore and has a slot free to make overhead safe. He can unga bunga you all day.

 

[spidey300]

Gen Xers. Not Boomers. Ed's on the cusp, but dude is totally an Xer at heart.

Also, it looks to me that this is the strongest competitive MK game since... ever. Tiers are tight, the practice mode is stacked with features, online is great, there are special options for tournament settings, they hire tournament players for QA and design positions... like, how could you come to the conclusion that they don't care? Is it because there are some useless moves, because I hate to break it to you, but all fighting games have those.

So what else, specifically, should they do?

i mean having more doesn't mean strongest. the more consistent players have been around for a while and in the end everyone just loses to sonic. while they do have some old blood that cares just enough; i don't think they're hiring like they used to. the only people they ever flaunt are 16 bit and dizzy who seem like they're just going through the motions. of all the fighting games i've played; every move gets use in their movelist. the only time that really occurs are in games with a lot of bloat like tekken. mk11 is such an outlier because they're mindset in the beginning was customs and then they just remembered in the back of their mind that oh yeah we have to devlop this game with competitive in mind.

 

[SHAOLIN]

The MK community wanted some attention paid to down-pokes, hit boxes, punishing FBs, customs in ranked, and throws. All of those things were addressed.

What would "respect" look like to you? Should NRS implement every single community ask?

You're right.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

i mean having more doesn't mean strongest. the more consistent players have been around for a while and in the end everyone just loses to sonic. while they do have some old blood that cares just enough; i don't think they're hiring like they used to. the only people they ever flaunt are 16 bit and dizzy who seem like they're just going through the motions.

It just seems like you don't know much about the company. Like this statement about how they "used to" hire.. They've actually brought far more people directly from the NRS community into significant roles over the last 4 years than ever.

Have you ever spoken to Stephanie or Dizzy? (Or any dev, for that matter), I can tell you firsthand that both of them care far more than you about this game, about fighting games on the whole, and that they've both done far more for this community over the years than you have. Stephanie is one of the most passionate people I know. Neither of them is a "go through the motions" type of person.

Dizzy specifically became a designer because of how passionate he is about high level meta/mechanics, and because he took the time on his own to learn the language that's used to control characters and make adjustments to gameplay. And he takes time to answer all kinds of questions that people have about minute engine details when asked.

The main issue is that if you're the kind of person who just detracts from everything, rather than contributes to something, you won't understand. And you'll keep spouting random nonsense about those you've never spoken to, who are actually working hard despite the pandemic making their office unusable. But people who only attack and never contribute don't help build a community, period.

 

[Gaxkang]

As someone who abused the hell out of down-poke-into-throw, I can say that yes, this patch is a major change.

Dang man, I'm gonna have to change up my game too lol

 

[Jowabunga]

I think this whole thing comes down to communication or lack of it. As someone who has socked a TON of hours into the last 3 NRS games I know next to nothing about any of the people that work on it, certainly none of the stuff you mentioned above, I know nothing about their overarching design philosophy, what their goals are on micro and macro levels, how they approach designing characters, or anything else gameplay-related EXCEPT for information gleaned from kombat kasts. This game has been characterized by staccato blips of information followed by long periods of silence where the players are left wondering what the hell is happening. That extended radio silence is exactly why I think you see so many attitudes like this.

I don't know what the solution is but I'm pretty certain the lack of communication characterized by this release is not working.

 

[spidey300]

It just seems like you don't know much about the company. Like this statement about how they "used to" hire.. They've actually brought far more people directly from the NRS community into significant roles over the last 4 years than ever.

Have you ever spoken to Stephanie or Dizzy? (Or any dev, for that matter), I can tell you firsthand that both of them care far more than you about this game, about fighting games on the whole, and that they've both done far more for this community over the years than you have. Stephanie is one of the most passionate people I know. Neither of them is a "go through the motions" type of person.

Dizzy specifically became a designer because of how passionate he is about high level meta/mechanics, and because he took the time on his own to learn the language that's used to control characters and make adjustments to gameplay. And he takes time to answer all kinds of questions that people have about minute engine details when asked.

The main issue is that if you're the kind of person who just detracts from everything, rather than contributes to something, you won't understand. And you'll keep spouting random insults about those you've never spoken to, who are actually working hard despite the pandemic making their office unusable. But these kinds of people don't help build a community, period.

yeah i know how you would bend over backwards for a community for your god game. I don't care about a community. i care about a product i paid for and how well it pays. dizzy even says stuff that he's had to go back on or seemed like he knew was weird game design and 16 bit's really flexing that qa title. excuse me while i go play with kung lao's new infinite or mess up rain specials depending what side i'm on. i'm just saying 16 bit and dizzy are more on the front lines than them. even chrisg was vocal about being a tester. i contribute so i can get a sense out of something or at least talk with like minded individuals about things in the game.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

I think this whole thing comes down to communication or lack of it. As someone who has socked a TON of hours into the last 3 NRS games I know next to nothing about any of the people that work on it, certainly none of the stuff you mentioned above, I know nothing about their overarching design philosophy, what their goals are on micro and macro levels, how they approach designing characters, or anything else gameplay-related EXCEPT for information gleaned from kombat kasts. This game has been characterized by staccato blips of information followed by long periods of silence where the players are left wondering what the hell is happening. That extended radio silence is exactly why I think you see so many attitudes like this.

I don't know what the solution is but I'm pretty certain the lack of communication characterized by this release is not working.

The truth is that when they literally invited a ton of our community out to LA, told everyone even ahead of time that they were considering custom variations but weren't sure yet (and Ed shared that was leaning toward starting with presets), shared that they were mulling different amplify inputs, etc., they got shit on completely for it.

The start of 2019 was a level of insider depth that we've never had before pre-release, and the result was complete immaturity on the community's part.

Anyone who's been around long enough knows that the same people will complain endlessly either way. Tell them what you're thinking and they will lock it into stone and harass you forever for mentioning it -- no flexibility allowed. Say nothing and they will complain that you didn't communicate.

I understand both sides of it, and it's never an easy problem to fix. But acting like it's a one-way responsibility when we're less than .003% of sales is missing the boat.

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

The truth is that when they literally invited a ton of our community out to LA, told them even ahead of time that they were considering customs variations but weren't sure yet and that Ed was leaning toward starting with presets, shared that they were mulling different amplify inputs, etc., they got shit on completely for it.

The start of 2019 was a level of insider depth that we've never had before pre-release, and the result was complete immaturity on the community's part.

Anyone who's been around long enough knows that the same people will complain endlessly either way. Tell them what you're thinking and they will lock it into stone and harass you forever for mentioning it -- no flexibility allowed. Say nothing and they will complain that you didn't communicate.

I understand both sides of it, and it's never an easy problem to fix. But acting like it's a one-way responsibility when we're less then .003% of sales is missing the boat.

It's absolutely true. The NRS community will complain no matter how many patches come out. Characters are S-A tier now and people are still complaining about the top 5 and the bottom 5
I can understand moves not functioning properly and that being the issue but what many don't factor in is that small changes can drastically change tiers. Look at Kotal who got small changes mostly universal buffs to pokes and a couple specials tweaked to not make them garbage and now is is among the best. I mean look at the bottom 5, even fixing strings and miss could drastically change their tier placement and matchups when arguably every character is tournament viable already

I'm glad they are taking things slow. Obviously there are things that need to be addressed but it's certain that no matter what NRS does the community will cry and complain.

 

[Jowabunga]

The truth is that when they literally invited a ton of our community out to LA, told them even ahead of time that they were considering customs variations but weren't sure yet and that Ed was leaning toward starting with presets, shared that they were mulling different amplify inputs, etc., they got shit on completely for it.

The start of 2019 was a level of insider depth that we've never had before, and the result was complete immaturity on the community's part.

Anyone who's been around long enough knows that the same people will complain endlessly either way. Tell them what you're thinking and they will lock it into stone and harass you forever for mentioning it -- no flexibility allowed. Say nothing and they will complain that you didn't.

I understand both sides of it, and it's never an easy problem to fix. But acting like it's a one-way responsibility when we're less then .003% of sales is missing the point.

Fair enough - I didn't know that either and that sucks. Shame on whoever contributed to that mess.

 

[Morgan the pilgrim]

They did change a lot of things community requested but they sure took theyr time.,However there is still a lot of things to do . A lot of dead moves , banned moves , characters difference ( geras vs devorah for example ) in ammount of tools they have , hitbox issues (johny still lowprofiles some moves even when he is blocking ).... We all know this game was rushed out , but we all payed for finished product , not half-baked cake , and it is in theyr interest to , if nothing else , check out communitys message because it will speed up the proces of fixing this games problems. Patch was ok , but when they said customs are in , i kinda expected we would see some changes to the unused/bad/useless moves , and i have a feeling most of the players were expecting smtng like this aswell.

 

[Blazeglory88]

All I ask for is more shenanigans. Give Sonya her metered bounce back, maybe add back NJP's, more combo variety paths, more recovery on moves, more unga bunga.
The patch was solid and the three new characters are actually the most fun dlc we've got yet imo. They could have taken more risks and shaked things up a little by either tweaking moves to allow for everything to be kompetetive legal or reduced some slot requirements on some moves to make them actually decent in comparison to others.
Still waiting for Shao to get his well deserved MK9 level buff though. The biggest bad sitting at bottom tier for the whole games life is well done steak type of bad.

 

[DarksydeDash]

Everyone is mad at the lack of buffs for characters but tbf, it's smart to allow customs and make no changes then to make changes AND add customs.

 

[THTB]

People were hoping for everybody to be janky gods like in MK9

It's kinda sad to see how many people equate "fun" with "let things be as broken and janky as possible"

I've yet to see a fighting game last for a long time without being crazy in some form.