Dragon Ball FighterZ Discussion Thread (Game)

[JBeezYBabY]

BTW i feel sorry for the Nappa players. Out of all the characters, he got nerfed.....wow. I wanna give you guys a hug

 

[Sultani]

1) How about you stop acting like a salty kid whenever you see a post regarding A16 HDK. Actually whenever you post - be it Bardock, Reflect, Chicken-block, Cell, Vegeta - anything really.

2) I wasnt even talking to you but you took it like it was a personal insult lol. Chill the f out. I dont even care about your opinion since you cant make a single argument without acting up like a butthurt boy. You are not the only A16 player here, pal.

3) Kid buu doesnt have:
a) Braindead HDK, that also isnt after a Super that costs atleast 3 bars of metter. Yes - braindead since anyone besides you sees why A16s HDK is braindead that doesnt even require any real resources and thinking/specific setup. Makes you guess a 4-way mixup that leads into another HDK that leads into another HDK with another free 4-way mixup situation and so on.

b) Armored movies with invincibility frames

c) Meterless air command grabs that would be anywhere close to that speed of A16s

d) A16 general speed (the speed for his size char is just ridiculous)

e) Mid-string command grabs

f) A16s damage - be it meter or meterless options.

4) Kid Buu is a mixup char because he was designed to be that way. I dare you to tell me his options that leaves you in situation where you have to guess another 50/50 everytime he touches you but he has no assists to help him mix u up. Because that's exactly what A16 can do - force you guess 25/25/25/25 whenever he lands a hit on you - assistless.

I wont even bother further talking how for a "brawler/dmg tank/mixup monster/speed machine type of a guy - he also has ridiculiously good zoning tools aswell.

5) You can brag all you want how A16s is almost exactly as he was - totally fine with that lol. It wont change the fact that opponent now isnt forced to eat a 4+ way mixups without any other option but GUESS.

So im just salty and butthurt because you made an obviously stupid conclusion from evodence that didnt lead to it and i proved it to you. Ok. I can't make a single argument without acting butthurt? Sweet cop out. I'm not gonna just pretend you didn't completely ignore the content and use stupid buzzwords in true internet forum tough guy fashion. Did the 16 player or did he not use DD setups twice with a 50% success rate? Did your video show otherwise?

Dont just brush over the fact that you used a video to make a conclusion that it just flat out didnt show AT ALL.

It's the dumbest GD thing ever to pretend anything 16 did before was "braindead." Based on your explanations im guessing hard knock downs are always "braindead." No resources? He needed to use vanish to get the hkd most of the time and it didnt even work if the combo prior was too big. You needed to know how much hit stun your opponent was going to have in order to modify the setup with dash light medium, dash 2M 236L, or spending the extra meter with 236H. The number of hits and how you started your combo mattered.

So, saying that it wasnt really scenario specific is just flat out wrong. Without the meter use to set it up with vanish, he needed to use an assist to set it up. Mid string command grabs are 100% reactable. So were his mixups afterwards, amd if you wanted to spend one meter you werent ever "forced to guess."

All of the other things you mentioned here are unchanged abd do not support, in any way, your initial argument that he isnt as good. I don't know if you know this, but listing things that make him good can't be used as evidence that he isn't good.

I dont think he should have been able to continually loop you back into hkd either, but dont act like you're putting so much more thought into anything.

If you want to use the "it's braindead bc other peepul saidz so" argument, which is dumb, be consistent about it. Pretty much everyone thinks kid buu should have been toned down.

Not exactly sure how the hell you concluded i was butt hurt just because i presented several counter points, but it's pretty clear that making conclusions and inferences from non existent premises is something you're good at.

 

[ShArp]

o im just salty and butthurt because you made an obviously stupid conclusion from evodence that didnt lead to it and i proved it to you.

You have yet to make an "obvious conclusion from evidence". So far you haven't made a single valid point or actually gave me alteast one example I dared you to show , to back up your nonsense how Kid can assistlessly force you guess any mixup that you can't deflect, delay/up tech etc. Also what evidence your talking about?

I'm not gonna just pretend you didn't completely ignore the content and use stupid buzzwords in true internet forum tough guy fashion.

I haven't ignored anything lol. There's nothing to ignore. I made atleast 5 points how Kid Buu lacks things that A16 has, while A16 lacks none of Kid Buu's stuff that you tried to imply in the first place.

Did the 16 player or did he not use DD setups twice with a 50% success rate? Did your video show otherwise?

Dunno which is more funny - the fact that you got mad because I posted only one video (yet) on how it's now way easier to deal with A16 pressure since his HDK is gone or the fact that you still try imply that his offense after DD will still be as good as it was when he had HDK.

Dont just brush over the fact that you used a video to make a conclusion that it just flat out didnt show AT ALL.

What? I used the video to showcase how all the major post-patch characters (including A16) look with the changes and made a comment how I think A16 will be used even less in the future since he lost his HDK potential. The f you even talking about lol?

It's the dumbest GD thing ever to pretend anything 16 did before was "braindead."

It's the dumbest GD thing ever to try and twist other members comment in the way that it would somehow fit your laughable "argument". First off all quote me on where I said "anything 16 did before was braindead" Second off - I actually took my time and explained why his HDK was braindead. Talk about 'ignorance'.

No resources? He needed to use vanish to get the hkd most of the time and it didnt even work if the combo prior was too big.

Holy shit - A WANISH, people! Remind me how much resources wanish exactly needs and how much resources anyone else in the roster needs to use to get a HDK (which wont even put opponent close to you unless in the corner) ?

You needed to know how much hit stun your opponent was going to have in order to modify the setup with dash light medium, dash 2M 236L, or spending the extra meter with 236H.

I know his combos and "setups (lol)". There's actually a training mode in this game. And fking hell - please tell me you were just pretending to be serious and really were not when you wrote this. Because from how you wrote it it almost looked like it's really hard to do A16 combos into HDK. Almost.

id string command grabs are 100% reactable. So were his mixups afterwards, amd if you wanted to spend one meter you werent ever "forced to guess."

He's command grabs are 100% reactable - I guess that's why even pros still gets hit by it, right? Even if it's reactable - it's doesn't change my point that it's still in his arsenal to mix things up.

And if you actually tried to read what I wrote instead on jumping at me - you would realize that what I mean by "forced to guess" was when you get HKD'ed whenever he touches you. Half of my previous comment was about it lol.

All of the other things you mentioned here are unchanged abd do not support, in any way, your initial argument that he isnt as good.

Except he isn't as good because 1) He lost his HDK and ppl have way more options now, not just to guess (you still haven't proved how Im wrong here). 2) He can't just armor trough any projectile like before.

And 3rd) - Im still waiting to on these:

3) Kid buu doesnt have:

a) Braindead HDK, that also isnt after a Super that costs atleast 3 bars of metter. Yes - braindead since anyone besides you sees why A16s HDK is braindead that doesnt even require any real resources and thinking/specific setup. Makes you guess a 4-way mixup that leads into another HDK that leads into another HDK with another free 4-way mixup situation and so on.

b) Armored movies with invincibility frames

c) Meterless air command grabs that would be anywhere close to that speed of A16s

d) A16 general speed (the speed for his size char is just ridiculous)

e) Mid-string command grabs

f) A16s damage - be it meter or meterless options.

4) Kid Buu is a mixup char because he was designed to be that way. I dare you to tell me his options that leaves you in situation where you have to guess another 50/50 everytime he touches you but he has no assists to help him mix u up. Because that's exactly what A16 can do - force you guess 25/25/25/25 whenever he lands a hit on you - assistless.

I wont even bother further talking how for a "brawler/dmg tank/mixup monster/speed machine type of a guy - he also has ridiculiously good zoning tools aswell.

 

[BurdaA]

BTW i feel sorry for the Nappa players. Out of all the characters, he got nerfed.....wow. I wanna give you guys a hug

I’m at work, what have they done to my Herculean horticulturalist? Is it just the indirect Vegeta nerf, or are the “scaling changes” actually nerfs?

Ima be livid if he actually got the hammer....

 

[JBeezYBabY]

I’m at work, what have they done to my Herculean horticulturalist? Is it just the indirect Vegeta nerf, or are the “scaling changes” actually nerfs?

Ima be livid if he actually got the hammer....

His scaling combo increased by very little but his saibaman explosion attack decreased by 100. That attack used to be 1000 damage but now it does 900.

So...fucking...stupid....

 

[TrulyAmiracle]

I’m at work, what have they done to my Herculean horticulturalist? Is it just the indirect Vegeta nerf, or are the “scaling changes” actually nerfs?

Ima be livid if he actually got the hammer....

From my very shitty testing he got very slight buffs to damage, only “nerf” is saibaman explosion does less base damage but it’s very minimal.

 

[JBeezYBabY]

I don't understand why they would even think about nerfing anything from one of the worst characters in the game.

ALSO they fucking nerfed Broly's Armored Smash attack where he rushes you across the screen. So that damage is less now.

 

[BurdaA]

Ok so... from initial Nappa testing;

My team combos (inc ToD) all work and are roughly same dami as before. Marginal differences, but nothing to get too salty/happy about.

Scaling changes to 214S (invincible-armour/parry move) are interesting. My meterless (Frieza assist) saiba-setup has gone from 2455 to 3045.

I actually connect this a fair amount, but rarely committed extra resources in the past due to scaling. I think this will have a nearly invisible but tangible effect. Resourced bnbs starting with 214S basically just became way more worth it. Actually pretty happy with this!

Saiba dmg nerf sucks, but not the end of the world, just don’t get why... dami is one of the only things Nappa does pretty well. C’est la vie.

Unless I’m missing something, Nappa still very much alive (well, as much as he ever was....). The goods might even outweigh the bads.

I’ll take that hug anyway though @JBeezYBabY! They’re cwches where I’m from, and I’m a slut for them

 

[villainous monk]

I don't understand why they would even think about nerfing anything from one of the worst characters in the game.

ALSO they fucking nerfed Broly's Armored Smash attack where he rushes you across the screen. So that damage is less now.

Nah a nerf per-se. It's more like an adjustment to his damage scaling before you start your offense. I have to test this tonight or tomorrow night but it's not a nerf. In fact it should scale more during his stings and combo's then doing it raw.

It's the same for Nappa aswell

 

[JBeezYBabY]

Ok so... from initial Nappa testing;

My team combos (inc ToD) all work and are roughly same dami as before. Marginal differences, but nothing to get too salty/happy about.

Scaling changes to 214S (invincible-armour/parry move) are interesting. My meterless (Frieza assist) saiba-setup has gone from 2455 to 3045.

I actually connect this a fair amount, but rarely committed extra resources in the past due to scaling. I think this will have a nearly invisible but tangible effect. Resourced bnbs starting with 214S basically just became way more worth it. Actually pretty happy with this!

Saiba dmg nerf sucks, but not the end of the world, just don’t get why... dami is one of the only things Nappa does pretty well. C’est la vie.

Unless I’m missing something, Nappa still very much alive (well, as much as he ever was....). The goods might even outweigh the bads.

I’ll take that hug anyway though @JBeezYBabY! They’re cwches where I’m from, and I’m a slut for them

*Hugs*

Well thats good to hear.

Im worried about my Frieza....I need to lab with him alot but im kinda on the fense of keeping him .....like ive been for how long now? lol.....Damn im so fucking indecivive, but im trying to not be THAT guy who ONLY plays the top tier character like everybody fucking else do.

 

[BurdaA]

Also, Nappa’s blockstring pressure is slightly different but still very much doable. Once the saiba are out Vegeta’s more for vanish cover or mix conversion anyways....

Anyone else suffering massively from lack of Vegeta blockstun?

 

[JBeezYBabY]

Also, Nappa’s blockstring pressure is slightly different but still very much doable. Once the saiba are out Vegeta’s more for vanish cover or mix conversion anyways....

Anyone else suffering massively from lack of Vegeta blockstun?

About that....They nerfed that MORE than just his blockstring

It still has the same damage and cover the same amount of ground, but .....Apparently, his assist can NOW be reflected in the middle of blocking the attack.

 

[BurdaA]

*Hugs*

Well thats good to hear.

Im worried about my Frieza....I need to lab with him alot but im kinda on the fense of keeping him .....like ive been for how long now? lol.....Damn im so fucking indecivive, but im trying to not be THAT guy who ONLY plays the top tier character like everybody fucking else do.

What are the Frieza changes? He’s my mid so and I love me some lab time!

My advice would be; don’t worry about being any kind of “that guy”... as I’m sure I’ve seen you say before, just do you.

Actually, fuck that... be THE guy. The guy whose first post every day is “dropped a tier, picked up s tier, fuck y’all!”

Personally, in 1v1, I always pick a mid-low, because winning feels more rewarding, and I’m a filthy casual. But I always get a pocket top tier, because sometimes you’ve gotta help someone else get correkt.

Also, my low tiers have a habit of getting buffed to mid/high, and I never fully drop anyone, least-of-all because of buffs


That said, I think any char can work in this 3v3, but you obviously have to build a team around them if they require more synergy than they provide.

I’m waiting for a dlc char to wow me into building a new team, but I’m hella stoked my first team isn’t dead!

 

[BurdaA]

About that....They nerfed that MORE than just his blockstring

It still has the same damage and cover the same amount of ground, but .....Apparently, his assist can NOW be reflected in the middle of blocking the attack.

Well shit. It’s true. You can just mash it out. This is bad for Nappa.... Basically, if you want guaranteed saiba-blockstring setups, you gotta have KBuu.

 

[Invincible Salads]

Right? I dont even know what certain moves are called.. so i didnt even know which move they changed with cell. I thought it was the teleport but it's not.

He's like exactly the same. Lol

for a moment i thought they woulda change his teleport overhead move to always hit in front, that'd work for a change, lol.

 

[xQUANTUMx]

Well shit. It’s true. You can just mash it out. This is bad for Nappa.... Basically, if you want guaranteed saiba-blockstring setups, you gotta have KBuu.

It basically means you can’t lock someone down for free and approach from full screen but I’m not sure it’s totally useless during pressure...will have to test


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[EntropicByDesign]

I'm almost certainly gonna be "that guy". When I was running through team comps and such, Cell was a front runner but I figured he'd get nerfed, so I didn't want to risk it. Well, he didn't. SO!

I will freely and gladly admit that I am a horrible scumbag and have almost exclusively stuck to the toppiest of top tiers. It just so happens that I LIKE most of the top tiers, but I LIKE some lowbies too, but I'm not gonna play them. For me, I try to avoid out and out broken characters, but usually focus in on the characters just behind them, because I want to avoid decimation by the nerf hammer while having as much absolute strength as I can manage. One caveat here though is Ill avoid characters that won't make me better at the game as a whole..think Deadshot.

I don't do this to make winning easy though, I do it to make losing EXTREMELY hard.

If, let's say.. I play @BurdaA - as an example... And I'm literally running something like Cell/Kid/Black or Cell/Kid/21 or whatever, and his Nappa mollywhomps my ass in a set.. guess where my ego gets to hide? Nowhere. I lost. *I* lost. No MU option selects or tier excuses or whatever. I lost with the best possible chance of winning. I'm bad. I need to level the fuck up, and I can't shoehorn an excuse in edgewise no matter how hard I try.

That's why I play top tiers. Not saying everyone plays them for this reason, nor am I saying people that play mid/low are doing it for an excuse.. but it's not always about wanting easy wins or a character carrying me.

So all that said - who cares if your playing top tier characters? I'll will freely admit that almost every character I play is AT LEAST a little bullshit. Usually more so.

(Also I have a theory about meta curves being centered around tier exploration and applications and the top is always at the forefeont of the curve)

 

[BurdaA]

It basically means you can’t lock someone down for free and approach from full screen but I’m not sure it’s totally useless during pressure...will have to test


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Afraid it is (at least for saiba-summon purposes). Labbing Nappa>KBuu>Vegeta now, but I’m a few bad lab sessions away from moving onto maining someone else.... nvm

 

[villainous monk]

About that....They nerfed that MORE than just his blockstring

It still has the same damage and cover the same amount of ground, but .....Apparently, his assist can NOW be reflected in the middle of blocking the attack.

Yeah. They barely made him honest. You can not only deflect it but aslo super dash aswell. I think it'll be made to use as cover for setups and mix ups much like before but it's good to see others have options. Against it now.

I think it'll be on par with beam assists. So nothing really changed.

 

[EntropicByDesign]

No order..

Cell - Kid - ?

? = Black or Vegeta.

 

[BurdaA]

I'm almost certainly gonna be "that guy". When I was running through team comps and such, Cell was a front runner but I figured he'd get nerfed, so I didn't want to risk it. Well, he didn't. SO!

I will freely and gladly admit that I am a horrible scumbag and have almost exclusively stuck to the toppiest of top tiers. It just so happens that I LIKE most of the top tiers, but I LIKE some lowbies too, but I'm not gonna play them. For me, I try to avoid out and out broken characters, but usually focus in on the characters just behind them, because I want to avoid decimation by the nerf hammer while having as much absolute strength as I can manage. One caveat here though is Ill avoid characters that won't make me better at the game as a whole..think Deadshot.

I don't do this to make winning easy though, I do it to make losing EXTREMELY hard.

If, let's say.. I play @BurdaA - as an example... And I'm literally running something like Cell/Kid/Black or Cell/Kid/21 or whatever, and his Nappa mollywhomps my ass in a set.. guess where my ego gets to hide? Nowhere. I lost. *I* lost. No MU option selects or tier excuses or whatever. I lost with the best possible chance of winning. I'm bad. I need to level the fuck up, and I can't shoehorn an excuse in edgewise no matter how hard I try.

That's why I play top tiers. Not saying everyone plays them for this reason, nor am I saying people that play mid/low are doing it for an excuse.. but it's not always about wanting easy wins or a character carrying me.

So all that said - who cares if your playing top tier characters? I'll will freely admit that almost every character I play is AT LEAST a little bullshit. Usually more so.

(Also I have a theory about meta curves being centered around tier exploration and applications and the top is always at the forefeont of the curve)

Meh, high-tier/low-tier... to each their own! Any attempt to measure success is fleeting or false until you’re the best you can possibly be.

Personally, I’m just a little bit hipster....

Anywhere except the absolute highest level, everything is pebcak.

 

[xQUANTUMx]

No order..

Cell - Kid - ?

? = Black or Vegeta.

Bardock


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[EntropicByDesign]

Bardock


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You are not wrong sir, but the 'Geeter or Black assist is so stronk.

 

[xQUANTUMx]

Afraid it is (at least for saiba-summon purposes). Labbing Nappa>KBuu>Vegeta now, but I’m a few bad lab sessions away from moving onto maining someone else.... nvm

Ah that sucks then. Will have to lab


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[villainous monk]

No order..

Cell - Kid - ?

? = Black or Vegeta.

Cell, Bardock, black, kid Buu, Gotenks, new dlc when they drop.