Doombawkz's Incredibly incorrect patch suggestion thread

[Doombawkz]

For Superman, increase scaling off of heat zap. Scaling on super breath is fine right now, lets him get 47% midscreen. Heat zap is what makes corner damage really high. It's only used mid-combo in the corner. More recovery on zap would stop the corner damage, though. Scaling could instead be brought up on standing 3 to lower corner damage. Only a bit, though. He should be able to pull 50-60%

Increasing the recovery on Heat Zap would prevent him from using it in combos much at all in the corner, so theres no point in adding increased scaling to a move that, normally, is a mid-screen zoning tool with a single hit to begin with. As far as Super Breath goes, the scaling increase would be "slight" meaning you are unlikely to be dipping out of the 40% range and will probably just be pegging out about 5% less, give or take. That also means, in the corner, you'll still be able to pull off some huge combos but you'll be unlikely to get above 55% or so given the loss of heat zap as a connector and the slight scaling drop.

 

[FOREVER BALLIN]

38% after F3 as well so really just use b3 during combos, I gotta find some block strings which could use B3 before even thinking about buffing it.

B3 in block strings? Do something like B22F3 RMS run up B3. That works for me

 

[FOREVER BALLIN]

Yeah, I'm just thinking making the b.3 a bit faster on the pick-up would allow for more combo potential for the character himself, and would probably help with some of the drops that may occur within the tight links Flash combos are infamous for. Its more a quality of life for people not as savvy with the quick inputs (like myself) while not breaking the bank since, generally, its the same move that simply puts more control into the hands of people using it while not making it something that can be thrown out mid-combo by itself.

Trait, although I agree it ~can~ be used for footsie tools its cooldown is incredibly long and is better spent doing the damage as it is now. Increasing the duration and scaling means it can still be used for combos, but its not necessarily the end-all optimal choice that you have to neglect the neutral state for. Meanwhile, decreasing the cooldown helps offset the damage scaling by ensuring you can go into trait more often (not significantly so). But as I said, its just my opinion.

Hmm ok. I think he needs more nerfs other than D1 scaling if you were to buff him like this tho.

 

[Doombawkz]

leave my j2 alone! I need to be able to jump around like an idiot mashing j2 lol. also what is meant by hitbox fixes to cat stance?

To put it simply: Cat stance has some issues where moves that would normally hit would whiff, and vice versa. Just in general, make the moves that should hit do so, and the ones that would miss to miss.

 

[BoricuaHeat]

Yes. I had a whole paragraph of things to do for other strings, but I can't find the thread. It was the one by Playing To Win.

Great! The Man of Steel needs to be more fleshed out with his move set, would be awesome to watch Supes actually use his 22 for pressure then go in for a low laser (b1?) to the toe frame trap.

 

[ShadowBeatz]

Lex:
~ Slightly increased mobility to allow for easier approach and disengage
~ Level 1 armor no longer adds 25% extra damage
~ Lance blast damage slightly increased at lower levels
~ Lance blast start-up slightly decreased
~ Presidential skin given, complete with under-armor tuxedo for extra class

~ I'll take it
~ Nah. His trait is really good. Taking extra damage forces you to try to set it up to get to higher levels
~ Sure
~ Sure
~ Dude, not gonna lie, him stepping out of his suit with a presidential tux would be SO classy. I'm down.

Also, give him an Optimus Prime skin

 

[BoricuaHeat]

Hmm ok. I think he needs more nerfs other than D1 scaling if you were to buff him like this tho.

Not much really with increased scaling, damage would be less and would just allow us to go for ambiguous wake up pressure, and baiting push block to punish.

 

[zuurrkk]

I want all mids to be fixed.

 

[Doombawkz]

~ I'll take it, but I don't think he needs it
~ Nah. His trait is really good. Taking extra damage forces you to try to set it up to get to higher levels
~ Sure
~ Sure
~ Dude, not gonna lie, him stepping out of his suit with a presidential tux would be SO classy. I'm down.

Also, give him an Optimus Prime skin

Eh. I feel like with his big body and low jump that a bit of mobility would help him get in where he needs to and dip out the same way.
It just makes no sense, and the game says its not intended to so just give it the functionality it was supposed to have.
Awesome
Sweet
I got the idea from Public Enemies where he hopped into his Lex Suit after getting out of his Lex suit, if you know what I mean

Red white and blue? Zoning for America

 

[FOREVER BALLIN]

Not much really with increased scaling, damage would be less and would just allow us to go for ambiguous wake up pressure, and baiting push block to punish.

hmm? Sorry if it's obvious but what do you mean? Scaling on D1 combos doesn't change ambiguous wakeup pressure. Or maybe I'm just not getting the full picture lol

 

[Red Reaper]

Green Arrows suggested buffs wouldn't help the character.

I say more hit advantage on low and overhead arrow. For 1% they should at least grant that.

Also, they should fix the bug where he isn't crouching while doing low arrows.

 

[BoricuaHeat]

I want all mids to be fixed.

Ahhh, this. And interactables doing 5 to 10% less damage; walk speeds please?

 

[Doombawkz]

I want all mids to be fixed.

Dammit zuurrkk, I'm a Bane player, not a magician. D:<

 

[Doombawkz]

Green Arrows suggested buffs wouldn't help the character.

I say more hit advantage on low and overhead arrow. For 1% they should at least grant that.

Also, they should fix the bug where he isn't crouching while doing low arrows.

Figured they would help his damage a tiny bit when he isn't toting an arrow.

Wouldn't that create some pretty nasty set-ups? I'd rather them keep the advantage and stagger they have and simply do a bit more since you shouldn't really be mixing them up with raw arrows to begin with. Eating 3-4% fast arrows isn't something to base your gameplan around, but it helps him play around a bit before having to commit to a situation and it gives him a bit of reward for those pokes without making him able to absolutely disjoint some characters from a distance.

Wasn't aware that he couldn't crouch while doing low arrows. I'll add that in as a fix.

 

[BoricuaHeat]

hmm? Sorry if it's obvious but what do you mean? Scaling on D1 combos doesn't change ambiguous wakeup pressure. Or maybe I'm just not getting the full picture lol

Ah let me explain a bit, we are getting 40 to 45% already in terms of raw damage, and 50 to 61% with trait, if we were to get heavier scaling during trait our damage would drop a good bit and then with the added time to trait we set up a hard to block mix up on their wake up. So really depending on how much trait is increased it wouldn't really break much. Plus if they still got push block.

 

[Nonameformedude]

Those bane and grundy changes dont make sense to me. "Slight mobility and damage reduction to balance out the mobility and damage increase while on cooldown", could you explain that? Adding more recovery to DP will make it something that will be heavily punished on backdash, and it isnt a problem or really good to be changed from 0 to -3(3-5% to me isnt enough of a buff in damage to change its advantage). I feel banes real problem is that hes the only one punished for just using trait, and in certain situation you MUST use trait so hes immediately is punished for playing injustice. Thats a big problem. Fixing ring toss would be nice, but if it benefits from venom then I dont think you need to change the hit box at all because it will still win trades because of armor. What do you mean by quality of life improvements to his super?

I feel any grundy player asking for hit trait to be branch able after the first hit is asking for a different character. Your chains last through anything once you get them all and they all have their uses, the power chain even has a pretty great use at one hit unlike the others. Why would you use grundy super when you do almost double the supers damage with one bar, unless his super is buffed to do double the damage a trait grab does the meter will always be better used in combo or to armor a trait grab. Buffing swamp hands for ease of use would be less beneficial than changing the input for the WCC from automatically changing once someone starts jumping over you even if you are already inputting the command. As it is now you have to guess before doing the WCC if someone is going to NJ to punish or jump over to punish and chose between two different inputs for the cancel.

 

[NKZero]

I'm happy with the Sinestro suggestions for sure. Although personally I would switch the transitions with the clashes when it comes to losing trait. I'd rather it be lost on transitions than clashes.

 

[Doombawkz]

I actually don't hate your Shazam changes.

I am both surprised and elated to hear that.

 

[Tiger Wong]

Hawkgirl:
Slightly reduced advantage on Wing Evade -> 3
~ Mace Charge pushback slightly reduced on block
~ Traited mobility slightly increased vertically, slightly reduced horizontally
~ Maskless skin granted

WE3 -1 right now. What do you want it to be? -4?
And I kinda don't get the traited mobility change. Do want the stage to be bigger? Or do you want her to be able to fly faster going up and down but slower left and right?

None of these changes help her her total shit matchups btw which is really all most HG players care about. Looks to me like it helps everybody else but not her. Mid-tier for life, yo.

 

[MagicMan357]

Shazam:
B123, 12B3 should be cancelable
12F3 should have some advantage on block
B2 should allow juggles at midscreen
Atlas torpedo startup should be reduced
Give him an air dash!!!!

Lobo:
MB BF3 should automatically have armor
MB Czar toss should give more advantage on hit
B12 should be negative on block (its only fair)
Reduce BF3's disadvantage

Universal:
Get rid of ALL combo gaps, they make no sense

Thats what i got for now

 

[MagicMan357]

WE3 -1 right now. What do you want it to be? -4?
And I kinda don't get the traited mobility change. Do want the stage to be bigger? Or do you want her to be able to fly faster going up and down but slower left and right?

None of these changes help her her total shit matchups btw which is really all most HG players care about. Looks to me like it helps everybody else but not her. Mid-tier for life, yo.

She isnt mid tier

 

[FOREVER BALLIN]

Ah let me explain a bit, we are getting 40 to 45% already in terms of raw damage, and 50 to 61% with trait, if we were to get heavier scaling during trait our damage would drop a good bit and then with the added time to trait we set up a hard to block mix up on their wake up. So really depending on how much trait is increased it wouldn't really break much. Plus if they still got push block.

Oh ok I get it now. thx

 

[SilverKeyMan]

Nightwing:
~ Wing Dings are now projectiles
~ Backdash slightly improved in distance
~ MB Staff Spin chip reduced slightly
~ Staff stance mobility slightly increased
~ Flying Greyson is renamed "Flying Dick"
~ Damian Wayne given a haircut

Decent suggestions. The last one, however, is fantastic. Damian REALLY needs an alternate costume.

 

[Doombawkz]

Those bane and grundy changes dont make sense to me. "Slight mobility and damage reduction to balance out the mobility and damage increase while on cooldown", could you explain that? Adding more recovery to DP will make it something that will be heavily punished on backdash, and it isnt a problem or really good to be changed from 0 to -3(3-5% to me isnt enough of a buff in damage to change its advantage). I feel banes real problem is that hes the only one punished for just using trait, and in certain situation you MUST use trait so hes immediately is punished for playing injustice. Thats a big problem. Fixing ring toss would be nice, but if it benefits from venom then I dont think you need to change the hit box at all because it will still win trades because of armor. What do you mean by quality of life improvements to his super?

I feel any grundy player asking for hit trait to be branch able after the first hit is asking for a different character. Your chains last through anything once you get them all and they all have their uses, the power chain even has a pretty great use at one hit unlike the others. Why would you use grundy super when you do almost double the supers damage with one bar, unless his super is buffed to do double the damage a trait grab does the meter will always be better used in combo or to armor a trait grab. Buffing swamp hands for ease of use would be less beneficial than changing the input for the WCC from automatically changing once someone starts jumping over you even if you are already inputting the command. As it is now you have to guess before doing the WCC if someone is going to NJ to punish or jump over to punish and chose between two different inputs for the cancel.

Basically, we are losing mobility and taking extra damage in venom cooldown, yet gaining neither benefit when its up. We are losing what we never had to begin with. Adding a -3 to DP would make it more than a thoughtless tool, and it would be a necessary evil if he is to gain much of any damage. Right now as it is, I'd rather it be -3 and do 3% more than it be neutral and do no damage. Its already heavily punished on backdash. The trait punishing us is actually not the problem, moreso that while we have trait armor is the only threat we have to work with and our attacks don't really compliment it in a field of characters who have much faster answers. Giving us minor buffs when venom is up to damage reduction and mobility will allow us to be a more present threat and will also add the stable practice of using trait to reduce damage now in trade of damage later. As far as Ring Toss goes, even if it got the armor it still lacks the reach to be an option over Venom Upper, so I'd rather have it be more than a niche damage combo ender. Quality of Life improvements basically means improving its functionality to what it should be, as it is now its very unreliable and glitch-baked.

As far as Grundy goes, you don't HAVE to branch but the option is open. Some people may want to have a bit of damage and a bit of chip reduction, where as some may not. I never understood why he had to commit to one branch, and I personally feel like opening two sides would give a better overall playstyle benefit to more than just "this one does more damage, this one does more etc". As far as Super goes, its just something I felt was long overdue and even if it doesn't affect his playstyle I feel like it could still use a fix for the hell of it. For the swamp hands, I feel like it doesn't give him as much presence at full-screen as it should and it should operate more on a pillar-style where you can catch people fishing for it mid-jump. WCC itself is a phenomenal tool and I really don't feel like it should be adjusted in such a way that you eliminate the opponent's options of crossing commands since you already deny just about every other option they have mid-walk.

 

[Tiger Wong]

Oh and you think Flash's mids have problems? HG's "mids" get ducked like they're going out of style.

Mace Toss gets ducked by pretty much everybody.
B2 gets ducked depending on the opponents breathing pattern (I'm not making this up. Check out the HG fixes/buffs thread)

You think MMH's MB DB1 >B3 is trippy? HAH!
HG's MT MBu~B3 is stance dependent (tell me that's not messed up)
123 > B3 has been inconsistent since the game's inception.

And then there's the fact that somewhere along the line her heavenly stomp stopped becoming a hard knockdown......

But I digress. This is your tread afterall. And I don't think it's that bad.