Doombawkz's Incredibly incorrect patch suggestion thread

[Tiger Wong]

She isnt mid tier

Yes she is.

 

[yaoding09]

Also for GL his mids need to be true mids.

 

[DownfouralitY]

Ares - Fix sword whiffing, Fix 22, and give him viable dashes and I would agree with this.

 

[Doombawkz]

Tiger Wong
To begin, Flash doesn't have mobility in the same way HG does, and he gets scaled all to hell in this list. As far as her "mids" missing, she has like 50 overheads so why you aren't punishing a ducking opponent I'll never know The way I see her, she has some solid combo potential but how to fix her worst MUs I'll never really be able to put down.

The upward mobility will let her get to the apex flight height faster and dip down, while decreasing the forward and back will prevent her from absolutely dominating the characters whom are unable to snatch her out of the air because of it. She will have to rely more on proper spacing than wing-dinging it. As far as WE-3, -4 actually sounds like a good pull.

What would you suggest to fix those "Bad match-ups" that wouldn't cause her to roll other characters into oblivion?

 

[Doombawkz]

Ares - Fix sword whiffing, Fix 22, and give him viable dashes and I would agree with this.

In the corner where you already get huge damage? Or do you mean as a projectile?
Everyone wants mids fixed but I can't just blanket it and say "all mids are proper mids".
Or you know what, I can since its not a real list. As far as dashes go, I don't personally think he needs it on top of everything else.

 

[DownfouralitY]

In the corner where you already get huge damage? Or do you mean as a projectile?
Everyone wants mids fixed but I can't just blanket it and say "all mids are proper mids".
Or you know what, I can since its not a real list. As far as dashes go, I don't personally think he needs it on top of everything else.

Sword whiffing in the corner is the dumbest shit ever. Honestly his dashes NEED to be buffed, and improve his wake-up game. His wake ups are basically nonexistent

 

[Doombawkz]

Sword whiffing in the corner is the dumbest shit ever. Honestly his dashes NEED to be buffed, and improve his wake-up game. His wake ups are basically nonexistent

You don't need sword in the corner, but its no more dumb than mines and other stuff vanishing in the corner as well. Buff one, buff them all, and Lex is dirty enough without infinites.
Why does he need dashes? His seem fine to me when you have a full-screen arcing armored unblockable, a teleport, projectiles, and pretty decent range on your jump arcs to boot.
I did. :| His wake-up port is basically Shazam's port now, as in pretty much unpunishable by anyone not using an unblockable.

 

[Chrishaspads]

Make every mid. true mid, make flashes supermove faster than supermans, and add invincibility frames to flashes wake ups. #BuffFlash

 

[Impractical Joker]

My thoughts, Superman is getting nerfed too much, IMO make f2,3 a little less effective and maybe make trait last for less time. If you want to do anything else then make 223 and 22 low grab a true 50/50 mixup. I don't play the character, I'm not biased. I agree with most of the rest of the list but what does change into projectile mean? What difference does it make? And now I need to know what happened in story mode after Shazam didn't die so create a seperate thread about the new story mode.

 

[Doombawkz]

Make every mid. true mid, make flashes supermove faster than supermans, and add invincibility frames to flashes wake ups. #BuffFlash

#no

 

[Circus]

Oh my god....
Literally the only section I agree with is the part where you said you may be incredibly wrong. Because this is busted.

And just a quick FYI, do you realize that if Flash's standing 2 "mid" string can't be ducked that he would have the most obnoxious Kabal'like pressure? Flash needs to be left alone, he is amazing already.

And increase the cooldown on mechanical bats? Yea, so his zoning will be even better, that sounds great. Good luck to anyone getting in or starting an offense.

Then I looked over my mains, and dude... there is a reason that people just stick to suggestions for their own characters because you seriously don't know a thing about most of these characters matchup'wise against the whole cast or at the highest level.

 

[Chrishaspads]

My thoughts, Superman is getting nerfed too much, IMO make f2,3 a little less effective and maybe make trait last for less time. If you want to do anything else then make 223 and 22 low grab a true 50/50 mixup. I don't play the character, I'm not biased. I agree with most of the rest of the list but what does change into projectile mean? What difference does it make? And now I need to know what happened in story mode after Shazam didn't die so create a seperate thread about the new story mode.

im guessing it means make it clashable.

 

[Eagle Eye]

what is quality of life?

 

[Impractical Joker]

im guessing it means make it clashable.

I thought they were when used in a combo. By themselves they shouldn't be flash able but in a combo yeah, aren't Sinestro's fear blasts clashable in combos? Maybe I'm wrong

 

[Doombawkz]

My thoughts, Superman is getting nerfed too much, IMO make f2,3 a little less effective and maybe make trait last for less time. If you want to do anything else then make 223 and 22 low grab a true 50/50 mixup. I don't play the character, I'm not biased. I agree with most of the rest of the list but what does change into projectile mean? What difference does it make? And now I need to know what happened in story mode after Shazam didn't die so create a seperate thread about the new story mode.

They are mostly minor changes (literally no more than 5 frames in any direction) and he already has those mix-up tools they are just never used because f.23 is a better option. As far as projectiles go, certain moves (reflects, Bane level 3 venom, etc) don't count them as projectiles so they aren't counted towards those moves or traits that would normally prevent them. They don't do anything to the move aside from make them function as they should in terms of attacks that relate to projectiles, as it allows characters who normally would be able to counter said projectile to do so.

Like if a move crushes lows, but 30% of the lows in the game ignored it for no real reason. Its more a matter of functionality.

When Shazam escapes Superman, he joins the resistance with the Flash and takes over as the new protector of Earth after the old Superman is whisked away. When the new Superman escapes and once again threatens the world, its up to Earth's Mightiest Mortal to prevent his onslaught and save mankind.

 

[yaoding09]

Make every mid. true mid, make flashes supermove faster than supermans, and add invincibility frames to flashes wake ups. #BuffFlash

I hope your joking lol I agree with his super being faster than supes but other than that flash is already top 10 if not top 5 he doesnt need any invincibility frames.

 

[Doombawkz]

what is quality of life?

I described it before in the grundy/Bane post, but basically its just general increases to functionality like for WW, making the moves in Shield Stance less clunky and just overall better acting in the flow of a match. It could be anything from removing glitches to fixing improper hitboxes, and its mainly a blanket for saying "Just improve it overall in many small ways".

If it doesn't need a big buff but it needs that "little something" then that's what would fall under a "quality of life" change.

 

[Eagle Eye]

I described it before in the grundy/Bane post, but basically its just general increases to functionality like for WW, making the moves less clunky and just overall better acting in the flow of a match. It could be anything from removing glitches to fixing improper hitboxes, and its mainly a blanket for saying "Just improve it overall in many small ways"

thanks

 

[Chrishaspads]

I hope your joking lol I agree with his super being faster than supes but other than that flash is already top 10 if not top 5 he doesnt need any invincibility frames.

lol i am. i dont think flash is top 5 though. Aquaman, supes, blackadam, batman, gl/ww are top 5 IMO. but all he needs is true mids, and more damage scaling off of d1. No need to buff his super move

 

[Doombawkz]

-snip-

I don't care? Thanks for your time though.

 

[Circus]

I don't care

Clearly

 

[SoapBar]

"Zod
-Fix the glitches.
-Get the bitches."

This dude knows his stuff.

 

[Tiger Wong]

Tiger Wong
To begin, Flash doesn't have mobility in the same way HG does, and he gets scaled all to hell in this list. As far as her "mids" missing, she has like 50 overheads so why you aren't punishing a ducking opponent I'll never know The way I see her, she has some solid combo potential but how to fix her worst MUs I'll never really be able to put down.

We don't care about her overheads. She has about a billion and like two lows. With one of them being off of her B2. Punishing with overheads isn't what we care about really.

What really matters is that her MT is like -100 on whiff (don't mind what it says in the game data. It's hella false) and with everyone able to duck it, dash, and STILL punish what is supposed to be a mid is hella shady.

The upward mobility will let her get to the apex flight height faster and dip down, while decreasing the forward and back will prevent her from absolutely dominating the characters whom are unable to snatch her out of the air because of it. She will have to rely more on proper spacing than wing-dinging it.

Ok.

What would you suggest to fix those "Bad match-ups" that wouldn't cause her to roll other characters into oblivion?

Well we've been going over it in the HG forums and most of it pretty radical.
- Air dash from flight (but only forward)
or
- Let her meterburn her Flight normals and get armor on them (probably the best, yet, most radical of the suggestions)
or
- Let her block only projectiles while in flight (not while jumping) (I still like this one the most)

HG's has a few really good matchups like vs NW, KF, Bane, Ares, and it's a hard 6-4 (maybe even 7-3) advantage in her favor.
But on the flip side she also has three legitmate 7-3 matchups vs DS, Sinestro, Batgirl and Lex. With the bulk of the problem being that they COMPLETELY and EASILY shut down any and all mobility option she has with either one move or a strategy she can't get around.

And vs all of them, HG can't jump (because it's so floaty, and she jumps so high and slow), fly, or dash (her dash is like her jump.... just on the ground) at all with the only possibility of her getting in being to walk and block and do a few hail mary MCs/MT MBs.
AND of those 4, Lex is the only one who can't duck her MT (which is supposed to be a mid), thus giving her no possibility to zone or even trade as alternative from long range.

 

[Red Reaper]

Figured they would help his damage a tiny bit when he isn't toting an arrow.

Wouldn't that create some pretty nasty set-ups? I'd rather them keep the advantage and stagger they have and simply do a bit more since you shouldn't really be mixing them up with raw arrows to begin with. Eating 3-4% fast arrows isn't something to base your gameplan around, but it helps him play around a bit before having to commit to a situation and it gives him a bit of reward for those pokes without making him able to absolutely disjoint some characters from a distance.

Wasn't aware that he couldn't crouch while doing low arrows. I'll add that in as a fix.

Overhead arrow is neutral to maybe +1 on hit. I'm talking about regular arrows. The thing is that he takes some time to land.

Low Arrow is +10 so he kan't load an arrow or dash safely against characters like Deathstroke or Black Adam. I think he should be able to at least dash safely once after landing a regular low arrow.

Paulo said they were going to fix his low arrows. I just like throwing it out there so people don't forget.

I'd rather have the advantage than the damage. He needs to get in range, I don't think he needs to zone people.

I like your Batman tweak too on his trait. It's a good idea since it allow the other player a chance to finally get in. Horrible match ups remain bad but they become bearable.

 

[Doombawkz]

HG's has a few really good matchups like vs NW, KF, Bane, Ares, and it's a hard 6-4 (maybe even 7-3) advantage in her favor.
But on the flip side she also has three legitmate 7-3 matchups vs DS, Sinestro, Batgirl and Lex. With the bulk of the problem being that they COMPLETELY and EASILY shut down any and all mobility option she has with either one move or a strategy she can't get around.

And vs all of them, HG can't jump (because it's so floaty, and she jumps so high and slow), fly, or dash (her dash is like her jump.... just on the ground) at all with the only possibility of her getting in being to walk and block and do a few hail mary MCs/MT MBs.
AND of those 4, Lex is the only one who can't duck her MT (which is supposed to be a mid), thus giving her no possibility to zone or even trade as alternative from long range.

HG/Bane is 5-5 but ok. Also heard NW/HG is 5-5 but that's according to like... Chongo so yeah.

I can't imagine the MB or the air blocking, but an air dash is something even I admit to not knowing how she doesn't have it. Maybe because she has that little mini-charge thing? Anyways, I wouldn't object to having her have an air dash at all, honestly. The Mb armor on air specials, yeah that's a bit much. Block projectiles mid-air would shut down those characters because then they have to get through the gauntlet of maces and drops to do any damage outside of chip while you can still glide over and snag 1.5% off of every mace you throw.

So how can you fix that? Making everything 5-5 is impossible, but making things "manageable" 7-3s isn't.