Question - Necromancer Does Necromancer Need to be Further Balanced?

[STB Damashi]

I have been thinking lately, does Necromancer need to have anymore adjustments made to him? If his DB+1 was cancel-able, it would surely give Necromancer the ability to pressure his opponents. Playing with Necromancer recently though he seems pretty solid, just get some hate for zoning the opponent. Additionally, it would greatly help his counter zoning game by decreasing the Start-Up and Recovery frames on his Amulet Strike (this would also be affecting Impostor though, which seems like the most balanced variation).

Edit: I mean cancel-able from a distance, in order to trick the opponent into thinking you will use DB+1, and then have them run in or delay wake-up, which you can react to appropriately.

Cancel like MK9 Jax

 

[Braindead]

Let's just be quiet for a few weeks. Shinnok had too much heat around him in the past 2 months, and TYM might literally explode if someone asked for Shinnok buffs.

Just wait a few weeks until people forget about Shinnok then ask for Necro buffs.

 

[xInfra Deadx]

He still has his whiffing issues concerning his Bone Grab...

 

[ArmedCalf]

Flick should be adjusted. That is all. I personally think Necromancer is pretty cool

 

[Vithar]

Flick should be adjusted. That is all. I personally think Necromancer is pretty cool

There is a differance between ''Cool & ''Good'' .

Necromancer uses 2 strings only and the stuff he gains from the Variation are bad , only the Summon Fiend is used to ''Extend'' Combos ... Flick is Abysmal and Judgement Fist is Worthless.

You basicaly play Imposter but without the Teleport and Mimic just with a special move that needs 1 bar to extend your ~30-35% Combos.

 

[ArmedCalf]

End all strings in the df4 move and you have a makeshift reset. The zoning is horrible but I mean a few moves can catch people off guard. I don't think this variation is as bad as people say it is.

 

[STB Damashi]

Let's just be quiet for a few weeks. Shinnok had too much heat around him in the past 2 months, and TYM might literally explode if someone asked for Shinnok buffs.

Just wait a few weeks until people forget about Shinnok then ask for Necro buffs.

Yeah that's true. I don't necessarily want Necromancer to be buffed, I still need to explore him some more myself before jumping to the conclusion that he is just a non-viable variation. There has to be some way I am not playing him correctly, I mean, WoundCowboy did fine with Necromancer when I saw him fight.

 

[STB Damashi]

End all strings in the df4 move and you have a makeshift reset. The zoning is horrible but I mean a few moves can catch people off guard. I don't think this variation is as bad as people say it is.

Yeah! I noticed that people become a bit worried after I use the DB+1 after a knockdown. I sometimes also run in on the opponent to catch them off-guard as well. Necromancer is definitely pretty good though, compared to Impostor and Bone Shaper though...well it's not that great.

 

[miti_mumway]

I think it would be pretty great if both Imposter/Necro got a new combo. Perhaps one with a hard knockdown. When you pick IMP or Necro and look at their kombo list, it's so... abysmal.

 

[imblackjames]

I think necromancer is fine the way it is. Good zoning, good damage, i dont think he needs any buffs or nerfs.

 

[True Grave]

Balanced or buff? Big difference. Necromancer just needs a little better tracking on flick. That's it. Maybe at most fix the movement on db1 because if I move it according to my opponents run, the squash will whiff when it should have hit them due to where I positioned it. THAT. IS. ALL.

 

[Youphemism]

Nah DB1 can already be positioned, no need for it to be cancellable. Necro needs fixes first and foremost, like on 312~DF4 whiffing on males midscreen, but even then there's little reason to pick it over BS or Impostor. They just cover more matchups.

I personally think Flick should be a little bit faster because there are still characters that can run past it and that might help. I think DF4 is fine as it is but if they made the meterless version safe(r) I'd be pretty chuffed because it'd give him something decent to cancel blockstrings into to keep him safe. You know, like Raiden's DF2: meterless version doesn't lead to that much damage and is -7 and the EX version is -14 but leads to a full combo. If they did the same for DF4 he'd be at least a little better. I mean Flick is one frame slower and -8 on block so I don't see why DF4 couldn't be like that too, it'd improve his zoning since it is a zoning variation. Necromancer's definitely not garbage like it was at first but it's very meh as it is right now compared to other characters/variations.

 

[STB Damashi]

Nah DB1 can already be positioned, no need for it to be cancellable. Necro needs fixes first and foremost, like on 312~DF4 whiffing on males midscreen, but even then there's little reason to pick it over BS or Impostor. They just cover more matchups.

I personally think Flick should be a little bit faster because there are still characters that can run past it and that might help. I think DF4 is fine as it is but if they made the meterless version safe(r) I'd be pretty chuffed because it'd give him something decent to cancel blockstrings into to keep him safe. You know, like Raiden's DF2: meterless version doesn't lead to that much damage and is -7 and the EX version is -14 but leads to a full combo. If they did the same for DF4 he'd be at least a little better. I mean Flick is one frame slower and -8 on block so I don't see why DF4 couldn't be like that too, it'd improve his zoning since it is a zoning variation. Necromancer's definitely not garbage like it was at first but it's very meh as it is right now compared to other characters/variations.

Definitely. I feel like in addition to the push back of DF+4, if they just made it -7 or -8, the most anyone would be able to get on him is a poke.

 

[STB Damashi]

He still has his whiffing issues concerning his Bone Grab...

The only times it has whiffed on me is when I have used to much gravity but that's about it. It should probably be made less minus on block though.

 

[imblackjames]

I think the flick should be yhe safe one it should go back to -4 on block. I think the grab being -7 or -8 would be way too good its tracking is good and its really to catch runners trying to get away from the flick. So it being safe would mean from full screen you can't really do anything against shinnok between the flick and the grab. There has to be something negative enough for the opponent to get a chance to run in

Like i said i think this variation is fine the way it is. Currently i think it could stay the way it is for the rest of the games life. But if i get to choose a buff i have 2. 1) use ex grab more than once in a combo. 2) make flick safe in block (-5 or -6) thats it....but those are dream buffs and i emphasize hes fine

 

[Youphemism]

I think the flick should be yhe safe one it should go back to -4 on block. I think the grab being -7 or -8 would be way too good its tracking is good and its really to catch runners trying to get away from the flick. So it being safe would mean from full screen you can't really do anything against shinnok between the flick and the grab. There has to be something negative enough for the opponent to get a chance to run in

Like i said i think this variation is fine the way it is. Currently i think it could stay the way it is for the rest of the games life. But if i get to choose a buff i have 2. 1) use ex grab more than once in a combo. 2) make flick safe in block (-5 or -6) thats it....but those are dream buffs and i emphasize hes fine

Flick being safe would make no difference, at -8 noone punishes it as is and it's not something you should be cancelling strings into since almost nothing jails into it. I think grab should be safer because he's not as effective a zoner as other characters right now. It being safe wouldn't mean people can't do anything because it's 20+ frames on startup so they have a whole half a second to advance before they have to deal with another Flick or Fiend. Flick is the same speed as Summoned Fiend right now and Flick is -8 right now and people don't have problems with it so I don't see why grab being -8 would be so bad. The mixup would be jumping over grab or running past/advancing and blocking Flick, it make his zoning more meaningful and Necro might then be able to keep up with Impostor and Bone Shaper a little bit.

I don't think using more than one EX DF4 would be useful, he needs the meter as is and as I've said Flick being safer would make no difference.

 

[imblackjames]

Flick being safe would make no difference, at -8 noone punishes it as is and it's not something you should be cancelling strings into since almost nothing jails into it. I think grab should be safer because he's not as effective a zoner as other characters right now. It being safe wouldn't mean people can't do anything because it's 20+ frames on startup so they have a whole half a second to advance before they have to deal with another Flick or Fiend. Flick is the same speed as Summoned Fiend right now and Flick is -8 right now and people don't have problems with it so I don't see why grab being -8 would be so bad. The mixup would be jumping over grab or running past/advancing and blocking Flick, it make his zoning more meaningful and Necro might then be able to keep up with Impostor and Bone Shaper a little bit.

I don't think using more than one EX DF4 would be useful, he needs the meter as is and as I've said Flick being safer would make no difference.

I get down poke punished all the time which sucks because then i have to eat a mix up afterwards. It being safe would mean people would have to guess if your going to end you're pressure in a flick or hell sparks. And since there isn't an OS where u can mash a reversal theyd have to hope guess when to armor. And if they guess wrong theyre back on the other side of the screen. As it stands now if someone is full screen and they block the flick if they try to run or jump 90% of the time they get grabbed. It being safe would mean they have to pretty much have to walk and eat the chip for a few of them before they get into hell spark range. Then they have to deal with that. I think itd be too good. I want to be able to do two ex grabs because itd help with corner combo damage

 

[Rude]

So what if you had close, mid, and far Flicks?

Kind of like Quan's runes or Kotal's Sun Rays?

Also, what if Summon Fiend worked like a Grab?

Would this be too much?

 

[Braindead]

Necro needs fixes first and foremost, like on 312~DF4 whiffing on males midscreen

Does it still whiff after the patch? The 312 juggle was changed.

 

[imblackjames]

So what if you had close, mid, and far Flicks?

Kind of like Quan's runes or Kotal's Sun Rays?

Also, what if Summon Fiend worked like a Grab?

Would this be too much?

I think if we had close medium and far things itd be worse. And of that was a grab itd be so OP lol

 

[Youphemism]

I get down poke punished all the time which sucks because then i have to eat a mix up afterwards. It being safe would mean people would have to guess if your going to end you're pressure in a flick or hell sparks. And since there isn't an OS where u can mash a reversal theyd have to hope guess when to armor. And if they guess wrong theyre back on the other side of the screen. As it stands now if someone is full screen and they block the flick if they try to run or jump 90% of the time they get grabbed. It being safe would mean they have to pretty much have to walk and eat the chip for a few of them before they get into hell spark range. Then they have to deal with that. I think itd be too good. I want to be able to do two ex grabs because itd help with corner combo damage

But that's what I'm saying, you shouldn't be using it as a blockstring ender in the first place. That's not what it's designed for and it's probably why they made it unsafe. It honestly wouldn't be too good because, as I said, there's almost 30 frames between blocking a DF4 and having to deal with another one. It would act exactly like Flick and it's fine as it is so how would grab doing the exact same thing be too good? Especially when it doesn't lead to a combo. I don't know if it's worth spending two bars in the corner, may as well save it for armour/breaker/combos since he's kind of a meter whore in general.

Does it still whiff after the patch? The 312 juggle was changed.

I'll check when I can but I'm pretty sure it still whiffs.

 

[Rude]

I think if we had close medium and far things itd be worse. And of that was a grab itd be so OP lol

Why would it be OP?

Like any grab, you could armor it, backdash it, jump it, etc.

Close, Mid, and Far flicks would cover specific regions of the screen and allow for more consistency in hitting the target.

It would just require a read to use.

Especially if you can interrupt strings canceled into Summon Fiend, making it a grab would improve his mix up ability, while making those mix ups escapable.

 

[imblackjames]

But that's what I'm saying, you shouldn't be using it as a blockstring ender in the first place. That's not what it's designed for and it's probably why they made it unsafe. It honestly wouldn't be too good because, as I said, there's almost 30 frames between blocking a DF4 and having to deal with another one. It would act exactly like Flick and it's fine as it is so how would grab doing the exact same thing be too good? Especially when it doesn't lead to a combo. I don't know if it's worth spending two bars in the corner, may as well save it for armour/breaker/combos since he's kind of a meter whore in general.

I'll check when I can but I'm pretty sure it still whiffs.

I think your supposed to use the flick as pressure which, is why ots as safe as it is (and was safer). The tracking on the grab is too good for it to be both a mid and safe in block. Hed have a mix upthat leads to good damage, amazing zoning, and safe pressure. Hed be way to good. Theyd have that much tome to move but then they have to eat another one. Then deal with it again. And then at that point theyd have to deal with his hell sparks. If someones full screen theyd eat at least 6% chip before they get close enough to hit u. And then wed still be safe. And get to mix them up. Its so negative for the same reason kenshis (possessed) is so negative. To give people a chance

Why would it be OP?

Like any grab, you could armor it, backdash it, jump it, etc.

Close, Mid, and Far flicks would cover specific regions of the screen and allow for more consistency in hitting the target.

It would just require a read to use.

Especially if you can interrupt strings canceled into Summon Fiend, making it a grab would improve his mix up ability, while making those mix ups escapable.

Itd be a full screen grab with really goid tracking that leads to a full combo

 

[xInfra Deadx]

Does it still whiff after the patch? The 312 juggle was changed.

It whiffs. (Males)

 

[xInfra Deadx]

Also, Bone Grab still whiffs on a running Jacqui, Tanya, Sonya and Devorah.

You have been warned...

AGAIN.