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Doctor Fate Matchup Discussion

DarksydeDash

You know me as RisingShieldBro online.
@OmGxBdON how do u handle the superman MU? it still seems 3-7 :( :(
Really lame. I zone him out and take every opportunity to call ankhs, I never use trait in it unless its a hit confirmed punish.

Once he goes for air lasers, I jump it and release the ankhs while airborne. On hit or block you get a free orb out. From here the Superman player will attempt to jump over it but you can MB it while airborne which gives you time to call more ankhs and repeat the process. Also, MB ankh is great here since it let's you walk back and whiff punish f23 or restart the zoning.
 

Bruno-NeoSpace

They see me zonin', they hatin'
Really lame. I zone him out and take every opportunity to call ankhs, I never use trait in it unless its a hit confirmed punish.

Once he goes for air lasers, I jump it and release the ankhs while airborne. On hit or block you get a free orb out. From here the Superman player will attempt to jump over it but you can MB it while airborne which gives you time to call more ankhs and repeat the process. Also, MB ankh is great here since it let's you walk back and whiff punish f23 or restart the zoning.
Jesus... we gotta work waaay more than him :(
 

Asodimazze

https://twitter.com/AlfioZacco
After Patch matchup chart impressions so far. Fate is looking reealllyy strong now.

Aquaman: 6-4

Atrocitus: 5-5

Bane: 6-4

Batman: 5-5

Black Adam 5-5

Black Canary 6-4

Blue Beetle: 5-5

Brainiac 5-5:

Captain Cold 7-3:

Catwoman 5-5

Cheetah 5-5

Cyborg 6-4

Darkseid: 5-5

Deadshot: 3-7

Doctor Fate: 5-5

FireStorm: 6-4

Flash: 6-4

Grodd: 6-4

Green Arrow: 6-4

Green Lantern: 6-4

Harley: 6-4

Joker: 7-3

Poison Ivy: 6-4

Red Hood: 5-5

Robin: 6-4

Scarecrow: 5-5

Sub-Zero: 5-5

Supergirl: 5-5

Superman: 4-6

Swampthing: 7-3

Wonder Woman: 6-4

Feel free to ask questions.
I disagree with Black Adam (4-6), Supergirl (4-6), Catwoman (4-6/3-7), Harley (5-5).
Black Adam, Supergirl, Catwoman negates a lot of Fate's tools and are just superior characters upclose. I think he is in disadvantage due to not being able to zone them out efficiently, and not having the upper hand in any part of the screen.
I could see the 5-5 against Supergirl before the recent patch, but now she is extremely safe and on a different level altogether.

Harley vs Fate feels like 5-5, she has the upper hand from her j2 distance to upclose distance, but he beats her in the zoning battle.
 

DubiousShenron

Beware my power.
After Patch matchup chart impressions so far. Fate is looking reealllyy strong now.

Aquaman: 6-4

Atrocitus: 5-5

Bane: 6-4

Batman: 5-5

Black Adam 5-5

Black Canary 6-4

Blue Beetle: 5-5

Brainiac 5-5:

Captain Cold 7-3:

Catwoman 5-5

Cheetah 5-5

Cyborg 6-4

Darkseid: 5-5

Deadshot: 3-7

Doctor Fate: 5-5

FireStorm: 6-4

Flash: 6-4

Grodd: 6-4

Green Arrow: 6-4

Green Lantern: 6-4

Harley: 6-4

Joker: 7-3

Poison Ivy: 6-4

Red Hood: 5-5

Robin: 6-4

Scarecrow: 5-5

Sub-Zero: 5-5

Supergirl: 5-5

Superman: 4-6

Swampthing: 7-3

Wonder Woman: 6-4

Feel free to ask questions.
Very nice. I think Cheetah may still be tough but the b2 buff makes it a million times better than it was.

I wish I knew enough about Firestorm to understand why fate beats him. Does reversal fusion charge still punish push after the patch? Why do you think it's 6-4, Fate?

Also I was of the idea that GL was an even 5-5 since he has the tools to deal with fates options (push and fireballs) and vice versa

One last thing. What are fates options against Blue Beetle that keep it even? As far as I can tell BBs air dashing gets him out of the options that literally all other characters have to deal with (frozen orb, ankh pillar). He can easily airdash over frozen orb or around untrained ankhs in the air (usually guaranteed vs any character that has jumped in the air) and continue airdashing after he evades them so you still have to predict his movement even after you setup orbs. Frozen orb is a very good option against every character because it literally takes at least one of their options away. For BB it doesn't take any of his options away. With the addition of his up and away zoning that we can't do anything about and his ability to do safe special even better than fate doesn't make it feel even. I haven't played this MU since the patch but obviously it's better with the b2 improvements so we can stay grounded now when we anti air him.
 

OmGxBdON

I'm going to make Fate top ten
@OmGxBdON how do u handle the superman MU? it still seems 3-7 :( :(
I use yellow ankhs when he tries to zone me and red when hes close. If hes zoning me and im in red i mb roll his air laser and do b2 f2df1df3 far b3 jump 3 f2glyph. Before the patch i would rely on jump 1 for supes jumps and jump dash ins. Now that b2 is really good ill use that in stead. iMO that changed the MU drastically
 

1man3letters

Alpha Tarkatan - Moderator
Moderator
Thoughts on how Catwoman mu will be after patch? J2 still going to be prob IMO even with new b2, same with her b3 low profiling, yes it's easier to whiff punish now but she already dodging df1 with her small hitbox/evade handy enough
 

DubiousShenron

Beware my power.
Thoughts on how Catwoman mu will be after patch? J2 still going to be prob IMO even with new b2, same with her b3 low profiling, yes it's easier to whiff punish now but she already dodging df1 with her small hitbox/evade handy enough
Should be even or slightly in her favor because catwoman doesn't win from fullscreen anymore with safe armored catdash. She can still dodge projectiles and build meter from full screen but that doesn't get her in. Yes, she low profiles df1 and her j2 will punish a fireball into a combo from 2/3 screen (despite CW players claiming she gets zoned out now cause they can't mash out catdash without thinking) but orb freeze will keep her in check by taking away j2 or low profile into full combo. I could also suggest zoning with yellow ankhs but her forward walkspeed is so good that she literally just walks out of them. So pretty much use df1 to control the horizontal space as she works her way in and use orb freeze to stop her approach completely (i.e. J2) and reset the scenario back to zoning her.

The good thing is that we can now anti air her from f2 range which used to be the range where we would literally just have to hold j2 and nothing else. So bait jumps appropriately with df1 as well.

So we are now better vs Catwoman at f2 range and full screen so that should give us an easier time than before. It was always a doable MU and now it just got a little easier.

Edit; I don't know any of her other changes but if you have other problem areas with her lmk and we can discuss
 

DubiousShenron

Beware my power.
Why is Darkseid 5-5?
Yes this is another one I was kinda curious about..In vanilla this was a MU where doctor fate had to respect literally every one of darkseids options and Darkseid had to respect none of fates except for f2 push loops on block. The added reality that we couldn't anti air the teleport reliably was painful like literally a 7-3.

After the patch, we have the ability to reliably antiair the tele with b2, do more damage and the ability to also abuse f2 push on block even more now so the MU got easier, but even still there are many options of Doctor fates that Darkseid doesn't really have trouble with like orb freeze and df1 cause he simply jumps over it and does an ex laser or a teleport (not to mention Darkseid has better meter build against us at full screen).

Yes b2 finally gave us a real answer to Darkseids teleport but I don't know it's enough to make it even. Doctor fate wins from mid range and it seems balanced from full screen but this isn't a good way to measure the MU since Darkseid doesn't utilize screen space in a traditional way like other characters.

It's just a very awkward MU where you have to fight it differently from any other MU, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's bad, especially after the patch, just not sure that it's even either.
 

OmGxBdON

I'm going to make Fate top ten
B2 buff is huge cuz it allows him to stay grounded. Black adam definently 5-5 now or fates favor. Harley 6-4 and cw could be different but havent played the MU yet
 

OmGxBdON

I'm going to make Fate top ten
Yes this is another one I was kinda curious about..In vanilla this was a MU where doctor fate had to respect literally every one of darkseids options and Darkseid had to respect none of fates except for f2 push loops on block. The added reality that we couldn't anti air the teleport reliably was painful like literally a 7-3.

After the patch, we have the ability to reliably antiair the tele with b2, do more damage and the ability to also abuse f2 push on block even more now so the MU got easier, but even still there are many options of Doctor fates that Darkseid doesn't really have trouble with like orb freeze and df1 cause he simply jumps over it and does an ex laser or a teleport (not to mention Darkseid has better meter build against us at full screen).

Yes b2 finally gave us a real answer to Darkseids teleport but I don't know it's enough to make it even. Doctor fate wins from mid range and it seems balanced from full screen but this isn't a good way to measure the MU since Darkseid doesn't utilize screen space in a traditional way like other characters.

It's just a very awkward MU where you have to fight it differently from any other MU, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's bad, especially after the patch, just not sure that it's even either.
My dude this MU was 5-5 possible 6-4 at the highest level and now its prob 6-4 for sure.
 

DarksydeDash

You know me as RisingShieldBro online.
Yes this is another one I was kinda curious about..In vanilla this was a MU where doctor fate had to respect literally every one of darkseids options and Darkseid had to respect none of fates except for f2 push loops on block. The added reality that we couldn't anti air the teleport reliably was painful like literally a 7-3.

After the patch, we have the ability to reliably antiair the tele with b2, do more damage and the ability to also abuse f2 push on block even more now so the MU got easier, but even still there are many options of Doctor fates that Darkseid doesn't really have trouble with like orb freeze and df1 cause he simply jumps over it and does an ex laser or a teleport (not to mention Darkseid has better meter build against us at full screen).

Yes b2 finally gave us a real answer to Darkseids teleport but I don't know it's enough to make it even. Doctor fate wins from mid range and it seems balanced from full screen but this isn't a good way to measure the MU since Darkseid doesn't utilize screen space in a traditional way like other characters.

It's just a very awkward MU where you have to fight it differently from any other MU, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's bad, especially after the patch, just not sure that it's even either.
The shirt and simple answer is that MB roll through air lasers, and he can can't really stop f2 glyph abuse since he lacks the range; even his armor'd b3 gets stuffed.

What he can do is d3 or db1 but then he gets punished.
 

DubiousShenron

Beware my power.
No not really. I mean if ure lookin for match then u could watch me play cdjr in reos koth from yesterday
Sure, mostly just wanna know if/when you build ankhs and when you activate trait since this mu is pretty unique in terms of how you fight it relative to our other MUs.
 

babalook

Noob
I still think the matchup against supergirl is in her favor. Her d1 goes under nearly all of his normals, if you both throw a projectile at the same time she'll recover in time to block while you get knocked down, if she air dashes on your wakeup you get full combo punished, MB teleport full combo punishes all your ranged options and if they know the matchup they can combo after the MB teleport in such a way that they'll avoid running into your MB orb. I could be wrong but I definitely don't think it's in our favor. Also, what are deadshot's top three worst matchups? The deadshot matchup isn't just bad, it's quite possibly one of the most unpleasant things I've experienced in a game.
 

DarksydeDash

You know me as RisingShieldBro online.
@OmGxBdON Is our matchup finalized? Or do you have something to add. Because I truly believe Fate only has 3 bad matchups; Catwoman, Superman, Deadshot.

He's in the top 10 for sure, and I wouldn't be surprised if he is actually top 5.
 

OmGxBdON

I'm going to make Fate top ten
O
@OmGxBdON Is our matchup finalized? Or do you have something to add. Because I truly believe Fate only has 3 bad matchups; Catwoman, Superman, Deadshot.

He's in the top 10 for sure, and I wouldn't be surprised if he is actually top 5.
I dont think superman is that bad anymore. Supergirl should definently be in there for his worst and cw is debatable atm cuz not enough MU experience. Theres also cheetah but havent played it either. Id say deadshot supergirl and possibly cheetah but sont know yet
 

DarksydeDash

You know me as RisingShieldBro online.
O

I dont think superman is that bad anymore. Supergirl should definently be in there for his worst and cw is debatable atm cuz not enough MU experience. Theres also cheetah but havent played it either. Id say deadshot supergirl and possibly cheetah but sont know yet
Cheetah feels extremely even. Stand inside orb, call ankhs and release them if she stays in predator stance, anti air with j1 when she takes to the sky, etc. She bullies us on knockdown though.