Do Tournament placings have an effect on tiers?

[Swindle]

Thats mostly because we are only 3 months into this game and matchup numbers are still being fleshed out. In tournament skill level and lack of character knowledge factor in hugely. At every Major we have seen lack of MU knowledge. Every character can make top 8 just some are easier than others to do so. No character can 10-0 the cast I'd argue there isn't even 7-3's more like 6.5's at worst or 6-4's

Exactly why tier lists are overvalued, and ultimately do more harm than good for people looking to improve their game. I am personally against them, at least until a game has matured. Even then, the “information” you glean from them is all but useless compared to an individual labbing things out themselves. But few want to actually put in any work these days, so enjoy the Cliffs Notes.

 

[Ray'sGoodLiquor]

Thats mostly because we are only 3 months into this game and matchup numbers are still being fleshed out. In tournament skill level and lack of character knowledge factor in hugely. At every Major we have seen lack of MU knowledge. Every character can make top 8 just some are easier than others to do so. No character can 10-0 the cast I'd argue there isn't even 7-3's more like 6.5's at worst or 6-4's

I do feel several characters should get help with thier moves, variations, KB's, FB's and hitboxes. But I think even my Kotal has a change to place top 8 in the right hands.

I’ve seen some attempts at matchup numbers based on movesets and frame data and I disagree with at least half of them. You’ll get an accurate tier list based on tools about the time injustice 3 gets released. Until then, it’s about 70% popularity contest.

 

[Juggs]

Tournament placement of characters definitely influences peoples outlook on certain characters whether they know it or not. It at the very least calls for a reexamination of the character. Especially earlier on in the life of a game. Tiers shift a lot even if there’s no balance patches to the game.

I remember back in SF4, C.Viper was thought of as being low tier for a decent amount of time. And even without any significant changes, she slowly went from a consensus low tier character, to high or top tier (some even said potentially the best character in the game). She was just underused and under-explored, she had some depth that wasn’t obvious. And the catalyst for people realizing her potential was how well certain players would place while using her.

So yeah, I would say tournament placings have a tremendous effect on how people view characters and their respective tier placement. How much a character is used and how well they place absolutely has an effect. That doesn’t mean, however, that it should. But to deny it and say that it doesn’t have an impact is either purposely disingenuous, or you’re looking at it through the lens that it “shouldn’t” have an influence or an impact. The reality is that it does, it’s practically impossible for it not to.

 

[deathstroke187]

No Liu in mkx played at the highest level is broken af and probably the best character in the game. but not a single major won by a liu player before the game died.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

No.

Tier lists are and should be based on character toolsets and matchups with the other characters in the game.

We could play this game for 10 years and learn that insert character here is the worst character for sure in the game. Sonic Fox could then win 14 tournaments in a row with that character. That doesn't mean that character is top tier.

 

[NaCl man]

Well than the question is do people consider Panda garbage because he is low tier?

Kung Lao is considered garbage because he is low tier or bottom 5. However he is making these top 8s.

How do people see Panda? Players can say Panda lacks tools and is low tier but they won't necessarily say Panda is garbage.

It seems to be the consensus that if you are low tier in MK11 then you suck, so when I see characters that are suppose to suck getting consistent placements then I question the tier positioning only because of the consistency.

This doesn't mean that I put them in top tier. It does make me think of the language people use when speaking of tiers.

A garbage character shouldn't in my opinion be making top 3 or getting Grand Finals of high level tournaments.

Kotal is considered a trash character. D'Vorah isn't considered good either and in a tournament setting because of their problems than it solidifies the statement that they aren't that good.

If Kotal all of a sudden starts getting Top 3 then automatically we will restudy his tools the same as we are now.

When Furious Pillow beat Hayatei at CEO we saw what happened the next day against Beyond Toxin which means people can lab the weaknesses. So if they can do it for Kotal they can do it for Lao too.

So if Lao keeps getting top 3 then at the very least he has the tools to at least not be garbage.

I am talking too much lol!

TL: DR: Is Panda and Kung Lao seen in the same light meaning is Panda garbage in Tekken 7 and that's why he is considered low tier? If Kung Lao is low tier are we still consider him a garbage character based off of his tools?

Panda ON PAPER is garbage.
But was still able to beat Devil jin who is top teir and was in the hands if Qudans who is the number dvj palyer in the world.

Remember any character can win in the right hands if the game is well balanced.
But even in a well balanced game there will bad match ups.

Yoshimitsu on paper isn't high on the teir list but if you dont know the match up he will tear you apart.

Again alot of what he does are gimicks which wont count for anything in a tier list because on paper they can be delt with.

I cant really speak on mk11 as i dont play much but the game is quite young so there could be a chance poeple haven't learnt the match up or just dont know what the character is capable of yet.

This is why in reality tournament results can not go into creating a teir list. To many factors outsude the characters ability to win said match up.

Human error , lack of match up knowlage or the opponents playstyle can contribute to a loss but this doesnt mean the character who lost is bad.

On paper gimicks should never work but in reality and in a tournament setting sometimes they will.