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(Discussion) The Unprecedented Stated of MK11

DeftMonk

Warrior
I’ve definitely pointed out the stuff I don’t like, like the way fatal and krushing blows are set up — I wish they were changed. There are things I like and don’t like, just like anyone else.

However, I don’t see anyone addressing the actual tournament scene — we’ve had the biggest turnout so far in the history of our scene. So regardless of what you like or don’t like about the game, saying that it’s close to dead is flat-out untrue, both offline and online.
Ya we are on the same page there...I don't think that characters in this game are honestly balanced so far apart that they require x char to have useful KB/FB and y character to not. Or x char has 2 KB throws and Y char has 0. This is silly imo. I may be one of the only ones but I like the KB throw design. Ya throw teching is a 50/50 but the opponent has to do something incorrect for you to have access to it. Unlike some char who have KB like " whiff this move 100 times from full screen like an idiot to get KB"
 

Gooberking

FGC Cannon Fodder
IDK. When I first saw the game I wasn't sure who it was going to work for. I've played enough fighters to know it was going to emphasize things I'm not good at, and lacks an element of insanity that the general public probably needs to have in a fighter to enjoy it. I figured I would skip MK11.

I didn't skip it. I wasn't working when the game dropped, seeing everyone play it all day, I figured I would just jump in and see.

I get the strait forwardness of it being a problem for people that see something once and just know it forever. I don't have that problem. Turns out the simplicity of it helps me a lot. I struggle to remember all the raw information it takes to do anything a lot of other fighters and I have to be hit by stuff a good 1000 times to start recognizing it. I personally find the "Labability" overhead on a lot of games insurmountable.

There is this common line being tossed about trying to compare everything to Tekken. I love Tekken. I spent months before MK11 with it being my main game. I desperately would like to keep playing it, but I also suck at it. It's too much to keep up with and that's coming from someone that has zero life and just plays FG's every night. When I went to figure out how to keep Josie from just mashing punches all day I had to write it all down because it was just too intricate what it took to shut down a base level mash strategy. I have no idea what all it was, and it's long gone from my brain. The game sets you up to just mash hard like a wild man or go super deep and learn incredible amounts of information about their giant roster to keep from getting BS'ed to death. Knowledge definitely shuts down BS and starts winning games consistently after a certain point. That's great. Tekken's great, but I don't know that means everything needs to be Tekken or the same thing works for every game. I don't want every game to be the same thing and I don't want to have to focus on one character in one game forever because that's the commitment it takes to be even remotely functional at it.

In MK11 the simplicity actually ends up opening up far more of the game for me. I can learn more than one character. I can often see the game working under the shenanigans and can start working on solutions. I'm learning and focusing on how to play the game, not everything 40 characters can do. I'm enjoying myself more, and exploring more of the game because it's more digestible. I'm also better at it I think then any game I've played before. Part of that is finally starting to understand how things work in these games, but a lot of it is not having that massive overhead on education. There is plenty to learn across the game as a whole, and I don't have to just stay in one tiny corner of it. I know that's not going to be everyone's experience, especially for more competent players, but that's my experience and it's far more positive that I thought it would be going in.

In regards to what variations would do, I don't think it changes a lot, but even if only half the cast got a third, it could be nice. I think a lot of people thought (including me) 2 would be a good amount to focus on doing right instead of having just more. I think it's hard to say. I think MK11 can probably better support 3 than MKX did, but more isn't always better either. I guess I don't have a strong opinion on what happens there.

On random, I do think the KL resetting points offers a chance to test the waters for custom variations. Why not have a single season that lets people go nuts? It not the same kind of competitive, but it would let people have a moment for that sort of thing, and people that want to see how broken a build they can make can flex those muscles. It's not a good, long term competitive standard, but it could be a fun thing to offer the player base for a few weeks run and then reset and move on.
 

Ray'sGoodLiquor

I don't care I'm not a competitive player anymore
@PLAYING TO WIN Good to see your face around here again. You hit the nail on the head, and the wave of post-injustice era posters telling you that you're an idiot speaks volumes to the current state of the community. Everyone used to complain how toxic we were, and now it's a race to who can be the most pathetic.
 

GLoRToR

Positive Poster!
Frankly, this game is the same old song as every other nrs title just differently.
We have the omnipotent characters with dumb shit that can't catch a fucking nerf.
We have the "okay characters"
We have the "bad but buffed" characters
and we have the Forgotten Tier.

And people are at war about this "upplay downplay" bullshit like "upplaying and downplaying" are even relevant when we have Liu Geras Sonya Erron Kabal with omnipotent mids that destroy the neutral, Nightwolf and Subz who play MKX in mk11, Cetrion who plays Injustice in mk11 and characters whose normals get beat out 100/100 of the time by the above simply because their hitbox is more hitbox.

Game is bad, players mad.
 
Sure would be nice to play a version of a character in KL that I like instead of whats given to me. Custom being a feature instead of a dirty secret left in kasual mode and single player should have and should still be the way to go for tournies

And for the next game remove the variants entirely and just make a full character with a full set of moves
 
Personally speaking, I forgot the game came out in April. Feels like it’s been out longer.

In VesperArcade’s discord we were playing MK for a bit. Some dropped it when SamSho came out, or went back to SFV when Honda and other characters came out.

I’m even taking a break from it now. Just kinda got bored.
 

Wigy

There it is...
Raptor found new tech, a lot has been discovered over this past month. If you don’t have anything constructive to bring to a convo, don’t insult people just for the sake of it.
Why are you using that as an example. It's not intentional tech and if it is, it's awful and shouldn't be in the game.
 
Are you trying to get a job at NRS or something.

I've never seen someone so consistently shill for something so hard I can't take any of your posts seriously.

@PLAYING TO WIN

Great post. I used to spend ages in the lab and come up with stuff but character tech is so barren, that was a huge portion of the fun for me.

If you need to strip depth and mechanical skill to balance a game you're not doing your job properly.
I feel your pain :(.

I also had a theory as to why the dlc is being spread so far out? Could it be they are only doing one season of dlc for this game?
 
Bro get a life. Anyone with any capacity to think knows this man is right on the money and you instant transmission right over to this thread to pull your patented NRS shilling. He's right about lack of variety and character depth. There's not much of anything worthwhile to explore in the lab as far as BnBs are concerned etc etc.

You're telling me that a rivalry between Sonic Fox and NinjaKilla (there isn't much of one), is somehow a measure of NRS's success producing a deep fighting game? What?! I'd suggest studying for the LSAT's logical reasoning section just to help you out in life, because your premise to conclusion flow is non-existent.

Just to give you some analogous context: Say they announce a new package of Starbursts, and every flavor in the pack is grape flavored. Playing to Win says this package has no variety, and your response is.. are you kidding me, they're selling like hotcakes, and there's a rivalry between them and Wildberry Skittles. So you're either a desperate shill or you may be in fact be genuinely that challenged, but I suspect it's the former. This is not a way to get a job at a company if that's what you're hoping for, my guy.
It makes me really happy to see people are finally seeing through crimsons bias.
 
I have been lucky to train with amazing players through my career including m2dave, forever king, thtb, king jr, master d, pig and the list goes on and on and on. Through the life of the previous games there was an eb and flow of matchups and winners/losers. The best example of this is the legendary evolution of Sinestro vs Zod...

I remember when I could watch [mk9] and say, "Ya that is Michelangelo's kabal and thats reo's kabal." or "That is perfect legends lao and that is DJTs." That almost doesn't exist in this game...

I still remember the feeling I had after mastering SInestro's push block combos (Even when they were patched to 0 damage they still had a function) or when I could actually consistently do predator cancel combos...

we didn't ban things like cyrax bomb resets or kabal that 7-3'ed almost the entire cast, we let characters like i1 pre patch scorp and mkx pre patch tanya used in competitive play, et cetera
Quoting the moments that I think were the real inspirations for this post, more than MK11 itself. It's totally fine if you don't like a game or don't want to/can't compete anymore, or if you want to be nostalgic for the times when you liked the game or wanted to/could compete, and imo it'd be fine to talk about that. But the rest of this is just not right. There are still new combos, mixups, and tech coming out all the time, including the option select tech that Raptor rediscovered just last week or whenever. There are more people playing, competing in, and watching MK now than ever before. There are more strong top level players than ever before, and some of them do have very interesting rivalries.

I really like MK11; personally my favorite NRS game ever is either MK11 or Injustice 2. It's definitely true that it has less wild stuff in it, but I also feel it allows for a very high amount of personal expression. Again it's totally fine if you don't like it or feel nostalgia for the past (we're around the same age, I know that nostalgic feeling well too), but I wish your post had been more up front about your subjective views than trying to seem objective.
 

Lt. Boxy Angelman

I WILL EAT THIS GAME
Sure would be nice to play a version of a character in KL that I like instead of whats given to me. Custom being a feature instead of a dirty secret left in kasual mode and single player should have and should still be the way to go for tournies

And for the next game remove the variants entirely and just make a full character with a full set of moves
Exactly.

What kills all of this is the complete lack of transparency about what the game was going to be.
All we knew about the game as far as builds and balance and variation was what we were told by Boon during the launch, up until the Kombat Kast after the Beta when the Only Two Variations rule was announced. I know I was asking for answers, plenty of people were. Mainly to avoid THIS RIGHT HERE, where the crowd gets split between what the game is now and what it could have been/looks like it was originally intended to be. I wanted to know so I knew what kind of game to be prepared for. When everything about the variations, from the seemingly random way some of them were thrown together, to the whole thing where the base builds in Ranked don't match the ones in the lab, makes it seem as though it was supposed to come built with All Moves Legal, but that had to be changed before release...maybe it should have been addressed for the people who thought that's what we were getting. It could have also been an Injustice 2 situation, where some moves or builds were never meant to be legal competitively because they're rigoddamndiculous (ex. Noob with Sickle Snag, Teleslam juggle, and new Slide). And for me personally, that would've been 100% fine. But there was no info given between the launch and the end of the pre-sale Beta. At all. They just pulled the rug out from under us. And now, we're the tiny minority who see how much better and more interesting and expansive and nonlinear the experience could have been if they had kept working on it instead of rushing for an April release, arguing with the tiny minority who thinks we should shut up and be grateful, in spite of how deceptive the rollout was, how shallow the simple meta can be, and how buggy the game still very much is.
But hey, why wait and release a fully fleshed out product when you can just drop it in a "good enough" state, make your money NOW, and fix whatever warrants the most bitching along the way? It's Year One and it's Mortal Kombat. The top players and clout chasers are gonna be there no matter what, and that stream revenue isn't gonna make itself while the game is in development.

Maybe I'm just a cynical asshole. I don't care. I keep up and work on my Noob Fu every day. I know it's going to get better as time goes on. But bullshit is bullshit, and the fact that there's STILL been no transparency or discussion about it from anyone important will always bother the shit out of me. Especially when I feel handcuffed by the want to compete and I'm hampered down by not being able to use my character(s) to the max of their capability, and not even knowing what max capability was actually supposed to be.

:coffee:
 

DeftMonk

Warrior
I mean for those really wanting custom variations to be tourney legal because its gonna add labability and depth...I dunno what chars your playing but the 3-4 I use just have garbo trash moves that would do nothing but add some projectile that takes away my ability to combo. Custom variations would most likely just make every char have a new 1-2 tourney used variation that is way better than any other combination and mk11 is still the same. Won't change much imo. If you don't like it now; I don't think you'd all of a sudden fall in love with mk11 then.
 
yeah it would . Think if LHQ liu also had flame buff and a teleport.
while it would it would also give kollector the god tier bola and a teleport. i think overall characters would be stronger but the game would allow more exploration. imagine killer clot for skarlet and making it so people literally cannot combo her.