(Discussion) The Unprecedented Stated of MK11

[JeffX]

So let's see:

-EVO was the biggest tournament ever in history for one of our games
-Celtic Throwdown was universally agreed to be hype
-Dreamhack was incredibly hype
-Destroyer's qualifiers have been hype

-We have a burgeoning rivalry between Sonic and Ninjakilla
-We have new(er) blood tearing stuff up with Deoxys and others

But "the fire in our community"

Right..

You're trying so hard to force the scene to be dead, when the tournament circuit is actually doing better than it has in years.

Bro get a life. Anyone with any capacity to think knows this man is right on the money and you instant transmission right over to this thread to pull your patented NRS shilling. He's right about lack of variety and character depth. There's not much of anything worthwhile to explore in the lab as far as BnBs are concerned etc etc.

You're telling me that a rivalry between Sonic Fox and NinjaKilla (there isn't much of one), is somehow a measure of NRS's success producing a deep fighting game? What?! I'd suggest studying for the LSAT's logical reasoning section just to help you out in life, because your premise to conclusion flow is non-existent.

Just to give you some analogous context: Say they announce a new package of Starbursts, and every flavor in the pack is grape flavored. Playing to Win says this package has no variety, and your response is.. are you kidding me, they're selling like hotcakes, and there's a rivalry between them and Wildberry Skittles. So you're either a desperate shill or you may be in fact be genuinely that challenged, but I suspect it's the former. This is not a way to get a job at a company if that's what you're hoping for, my guy.

 

[Jynks]

"maxed out".... what the actual fuck?

There is new dirt coming almost daily. Tierlists are in flucatiuon, with every pro giving different scores. Top 8's are representing by almost a unique character slot per player. We have Sonic finally finding an active rival with Ninjakiller that the scene loves, we have homespun heroes coming out of the EU with yoVideoGmes to challenge Foxy. We have the largest turnouts for the best selling game in NRS history, with MK11 being the best selling game of 2019, across ALL platforms and ALL genres and it is STILL topping sale charts to this very month. We have DLC incoming at a slower rate than previous NRS games but actually faster than almost all other franchises, support is stepped up with long term planning, WB has committed to a long range pro scene and ... we have some of the hypest pro events ever with Dreamhack as well as Doxy and Aquaman launching massive free online series to find new talent and bring them into the offline scene.

I mean seriously.. if you do not like the game fine.. but do not for a second think you speak for the scene, MK11 is doing gang busters and firing on all cylinders right now.

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

I want Customs but it isn't because I think the game is dead or boring. Yes some characters are simple and yes we could use a little more execution on some but there is plenty to lab, Wave Dashing, Auto FB's, Raptors OS which are all pretty difficult.
There are hard characters to master despite what some have said. I used Kabal in MK9 and had his NDCancels down and I'm gonna say something that some won't like. The only thing that was difficult about MK9 Kabal cancels was getting them linked perfectly within a 1-3f window.
MK11 Kabal has NDC's that are limited for obvious reasons but are very difficult to do safely. The link is 1-3f yes just like MK9. What is easier about them is the speed to input them and cancel. You don't do a dash cancel after Nomad Dash you hold Back+Block. You still have to do them within 1-3f links otherwise you will be poked out or even reversal thrown especially on F4xxNDCxxF4xxNDCxxF4xxDB1/Throw/Poke/1+3/BF1
Or just:
F4xxNDCxxF4xx/1+3/BF1/DB1/Throw

Wave dashing is pretty hard, I think its harder than MK9 dash cancels and even some MKX cancels.

The Raptor OS is pretty hard to do consistently.

I feel like there is plenty to learn but yes some characters are very limited and simple. But I would like to have Customs but I'm actually excited for 3rd variations and wanna see how those turn out.
I'm actually happy things like +20 cancels don't exist in MK11 or many of the broke as things in 9/X.
If they gave characters +1 to +3 cancels I'd be fine with it like Kabal has as long as it costs resources.

 

[ExpectFlames]

"maxed out".... what the actual fuck?

There is new dirt coming almost daily. Tierlists are in flucatiuon, with every pro giving different scores. Top 8's are representing by almost a unique character slot per player. We have Sonic finally finding an active rival with Ninjakiller that the scene loves, we have homespun heroes coming out of the EU with yoVideoGmes to challenge Foxy. We have the largest turnouts for the best selling game in NRS history, with MK11 being the best selling game of 2019, across ALL platforms and ALL genres and it is STILL topping sale charts to this very month. We have DLC incoming at a slower rate than previous NRS games but actually faster than almost all other franchises, support is stepped up with long term planning, WB has committed to a long range pro scene and ... we have some of the hypest pro events ever with Dreamhack as well as Doxy and Aquaman launching massive free online series to find new talent and bring them into the offline scene.

I mean seriously.. if you do not like the game fine.. but do not for a second think you speak for the scene, MK11 is doing gang busters and firing on all cylinders right now.

Mk11 isnt the best selling game in NRS history mkx is, I hate this silly argument over best selling as if the window it launched in had any real competition its not up for anyone's game of the year relax. As far as the pro serious stuff its the same 8 guys plus ninja and yo from the past 3 games already it's not hysteria that post like this keep popping up.

 

[ExpectFlames]

I want Customs but it isn't because I think the game is dead or boring. Yes some characters are simple and yes we could use a little more execution on some but there is plenty to lab, Wave Dashing, Auto FB's, Raptors OS which are all pretty difficult.
There are hard characters to master despite what some have said. I used Kabal in MK9 and had his NDCancels down and I'm gonna say something that some won't like. The only thing that was difficult about MK9 Kabal cancels was getting them linked perfectly within a 1-3f window.
MK11 Kabal has NDC's that are limited for obvious reasons but are very difficult to do safely. The link is 1-3f yes just like MK9. What is easier about them is the speed to input them and cancel. You don't do a dash cancel after Nomad Dash you hold Back+Block. You still have to do them within 1-3f links otherwise you will be poked out or even reversal thrown especially on F4xxNDCxxF4xxNDCxxF4xxDB1/Throw/Poke/1+3/BF1
Or just:
F4xxNDCxxF4xx/1+3/BF1/DB1/Throw

Wave dashing is pretty hard, I think its harder than MK9 dash cancels and even some MKX cancels.

The Raptor OS is pretty hard to do consistently.

I feel like there is plenty to learn but yes some characters are very limited and simple. But I would like to have Customs but I'm actually excited for 3rd variations and wanna see how those turn out.
I'm actually happy things like +20 cancels don't exist in MK11 or many of the broke as things in 9/X.
If they gave characters +1 to +3 cancels I'd be fine with it like Kabal has as long as it costs resources.

You legit have my vote for best poster concise relevant dope

 

[Vslayer]

How exactly is the game maxed out? I think you’re not looking hard enough. I have played Cassie since day 1 and I still find new strategies to use with her.

You sound like you’re stuck to your way of thinking. The reason people don’t discover new things and play characters differently or even think outside of the box is because they think there’s only one way to play a certain character. The only people who don’t think that way, are the ones who win tourneys, like Sonic Fox.

If you want to succeed and keep things fresh, you gotta be unpredictable. The pros who are doing bad in this game are playing predictably and have your exact mentality.

 

[Evil Canadian]

games maxed out

ignores fact new tech is discovered daily, and a lot of it is big shit

no but you see the games maxed out cause I spent 10 mins in training mode I figured it all out

 

[Wigy]

@Evil Canadian

What new tech?

 

[JeffX]

@Evil Canadian

What new tech?

Man just figured out how to wake up roll. It's a game changer for him.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

So let's see:

-EVO was the biggest tournament ever in history for one of our games
-Celtic Throwdown was universally agreed to be hype
-Dreamhack was incredibly hype
-Destroyer's qualifiers have been hype

-We have a burgeoning rivalry between Sonic and Ninjakilla
-We have new(er) blood tearing stuff up with Deoxys and others

But "the fire in our community"

Right..

You're trying so hard to force the scene to be dead, when the tournament circuit is actually doing better than it has in years.

The point he made went SO far past this.
Tournaments are typically always hype due to the nature of "something being on the line". The ONE and only time i can think of a high profile tournament being crap was the Alien fiasco. Only one.

And lets make one thing very clear. The talent pool is significantly lower now than it was in MK9's hayday. The amount of top players in that game vs now is probably 3 to 1 easy. New Yorks scene alone is was probably a 1:1 ratio with what we have now. That is just something everyone has to hold.

I feel like there's a major flaw in the argument that "no new tech is coming out, the game is dead". You mentioned Injustice with the game developing a lot over the course of 3 years, which is true.

Well we're 5 months into the game right now. How do we know that there isn't gonna be major meta/tech developments over the rest of the game's life? Feel like we're calling it too early when we say stuff like that, especially seeing as there actually IS new developments with the Raptor OS which was discovered like a week ago.

OS are only tech if the DEVELOPER means for them to actually be in the game.
Otherwise they're a bug. Whether with the developer themselves or an engine bug.

Most of the "tech" in MK11 deals with "wow that whiffs on my block hitbox if i stand block then duck block." or my favorite "Wow there is variable block frames when i'm facing one way and not the other".

I think we are all guilty of wanting balance. NRS def. delivered on this, by shallowing down the thought process and creativity.

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

@Evil Canadian

What new tech?
[/QUOTE]
@Wigy
I found tech with Kabal the other week that I haven't seen used in majors at all (Auto FB)

Raptors OS is a game changer and applies to every character and hundreds of strings. Helps with 50/50's, Unsafe strings, Tick Throws, Auto Shimmy's and countless other things.

These type of OS's existed since MK4 but how they are done is changed so its literally rediscovered.
We are only 5 months in and there is no way everything has been discovered. Same shit was said on MKX if you remember. Tanya/predator/tremor/take a/liu kang/Cyrax etc all got new tech a year in and before that many said the characters are figured out. We know the matchups, everything has been discovered blah blah blah.

 

[Evil Canadian]

And lets make one thing very clear. The talent pool is significantly lower now than it was in MK9's hayday. The amount of top players in that game vs now is probably 3 to 1 easy. New Yorks scene alone is was probably a 1:1 ratio with what we have now. That is just something everyone has to hold.

thats because the cutoff line for top player is much higher now than it was then. Most "top players" in the mk9 days can't cut it in modern games and only got a name for themselves to begin with because the scene was much, much smaller. Big fish in small pond and all that.

 

[haketh]

The point he made went SO far past this.
Tournaments are typically always hype due to the nature of "something being on the line". The ONE and only time i can think of a high profile tournament being crap was the Alien fiasco. Only one.

And lets make one thing very clear. The talent pool is significantly lower now than it was in MK9's hayday. The amount of top players in that game vs now is probably 3 to 1 easy. New Yorks scene alone is was probably a 1:1 ratio with what we have now. That is just something everyone has to hold.

Hell the fuck no, the scene is playing on a higher level by average than we were back then. Top level is the same story, people playing better now than we did back in MK9.

 

[Slymind]

Just come and say that you don't like the game and be done with. Why do people do mental gymnastics and philophies, to end up saying that a game is bland and has no depth when the topic is very subjective on many stances. This is pretty much the same thing that everyone says about every new fighting game released in the past years.

MK11 is about the decision making within each match. From crusing blow management, to wake up options, predicting fall outs, spacing etc. If you don't like it, move on to other games, it's that simple.

And lets make one thing very clear. The talent pool is significantly lower now than it was in MK9's hayday. The amount of top players in that game vs now is probably 3 to 1 easy. New Yorks scene alone is was probably a 1:1 ratio with what we have now. That is just something everyone has to hold.

You cannot possibly believe this is even remotely close to being true.

 

[Groove Heaven]

tym heirarch comin through beep beep get the fuck out of my way or ill royally contribute my fist to your face

Reading these posts in your voice is hilarious.

"Hellooo and wellllllllcome~~ to the TYM hierarchy coming to punch you in the fucking face!"

 

[DeftMonk]

Bro get a life. Anyone with any capacity to think knows this man is right on the money and you instant transmission right over to this thread to pull your patented NRS shilling. He's right about lack of variety and character depth. There's not much of anything worthwhile to explore in the lab as far as BnBs are concerned etc etc.

You're telling me that a rivalry between Sonic Fox and NinjaKilla (there isn't much of one), is somehow a measure of NRS's success producing a deep fighting game? What?! I'd suggest studying for the LSAT's logical reasoning section just to help you out in life, because your premise to conclusion flow is non-existent.

Just to give you some analogous context: Say they announce a new package of Starbursts, and every flavor in the pack is grape flavored. Playing to Win says this package has no variety, and your response is.. are you kidding me, they're selling like hotcakes, and there's a rivalry between them and Wildberry Skittles. So you're either a desperate shill or you may be in fact be genuinely that challenged, but I suspect it's the former. This is not a way to get a job at a company if that's what you're hoping for, my guy.

Crimsonshadow is very special and one day him and roy arkon may announce their love for nrs + each other and elope but... Lets not be too hard on the guy. Crimson tho for real bro do you not see any issues with this game whatsoever? Just act a little more like a human and people will relate to your PoV way more.

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

Fantastic post, @PLAYING TO WIN
Even though this topic is probably going to get trolled to death before it gathers any significant speed.

Also: no shit, the e-sports half of this game looks like its doing well. That's what happens when your game has money behind it (not saying it isn't great in its own ways, it VERY very much is and Noob Saibot is life, I'm just saying you can make garbage look like gold when you have WB house money behind you).

The shady rollout tactics and complete lack of transparency as far as all the problems the game has (and we, the players, have with it) told me everything I needed to know about how this would all go. But we're the assholes when we critique and point out the absurdity that are as obvious as a fucking hole in the wall.

My money says that once the Year One DLC wave is over and the money has been made, THEN we'll get our fully open builds that we should've had in the first place, and everyone will be bitching about how we're losing a whole year of meta having to learn extra stuff and blah blah boo hoo.
In a world where games like Tekken and KOF exist, the fact that the argument against full customization I've seen the most has been "wahhh, everyone will have so much matchup stuff to learn" makes me simultaneously want to puke on someone's shoes.

Anyway...well said, P2W.

 

[DeftMonk]

games maxed out

ignores fact new tech is discovered daily, and a lot of it is big shit

no but you see the games maxed out cause I spent 10 mins in training mode I figured it all out

Some dude figures a way to bumfuck the input buffer and option select everything into auto hitconfirms isnt tech. Thats more like "oh this game was rushed and theres that in it"

edit: I am not agreeing with OP 100% game does have some really good things going for it. Balance being one and replayability is there jsut not in the same way it used to be. Maybe people used to set opponent to just plain ol' wakeup on KD and lab for hours but now its more about setting opponent to do a whole buncch of shit and hone your reactions to all of those... I am cool with that but the limitations places on characters (I am assuming this is obviously for balance) really takes away from seeing what OP is saying like x player vs x player as the same char and it being obvious who is which. One of the best matches I ever watched was a jax mirror in mk9 and the two jax you could watch 10 seconds and realize who was which one. This doesn't exist here... liu kang looks like liu kang etc. The only outlier imo is lao depending if you are going for more setups and mcfly style shit or just d3 into "is he gonna block or mid".

 

[Evil Canadian]

Some dude figures a way to bumfuck the input buffer and option select everything into auto hitconfirms isnt tech. Thats more like "oh this game was rushed and theres that in it"

who says I was even talking about that? When I say new tech is discovered daily, I mean D A I L Y. New combos, new setups, new oki, new everything. The buffer o/s is just one day of many.

Here have an optimized Kollector setup for spare change figured out less than 24 hours ago

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1175185145663557634

ill see new stuff I have never seen before tomorrow, day after that, and the day after that too.

Stop fucking whining that there ain't no new stuff when you are too ignorant to see whats going around in the community.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Whether you know this or not your opinions are universally regarded as NRS yes man and your response to this thread further proves that. If you think this game has any level of depth you truely are an FGC simpleton and have zero competitive clout.

As the community engineer you also had many opportunities to help the scene but really have not done a damn thing. Where is the tym team? Where is the tym
Tournament series? Where was the initiative to get players back on the site? Where is the updated events calendar and event hubs level dedication to the community? No where. But I do see a million shit posts and longest threads in history convincing yourself that NRS can do no wrong.

When will members of this sit have the ability to ignore you? Please add that feature @STORMS

This thread should be front pages as it raises a million concerns with the state of the game.

Would you like to actually make a rational counterpoint or dispute to what I said — or do you prefer to just attack me personally and bring up something tangential like the TYM tournament stuff we’ve discussed 2-3 times already?

I think it’s obvious to everyone when you divert to ad hominem bashing because you’re unable to dispute what was said in the actual post.

I’m not going to stoop to it here. Address my argument, not me.

 

[DeftMonk]

who says I was even talking about that? When I say new tech is discovered daily, I mean D A I L Y. New combos, new setups, new oki, new everything. The buffer o/s is just one day of many.

Here have an optimized Kollector setup for spare change figured out less than 24 hours ago

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1175185145663557634

ill see new stuff I have never seen before tomorrow, day after that, and the day after that too.

Stop fucking whining that there ain't no new stuff when you are too ignorant to see whats going around in the community.

I edited my OP because I didn't want to come off as being too negative about the game. There is the random tech found I agree. Point taken. I've said it a lot my only real problem with the game lies in the wonky shit that happens. Because I don't know if im cursed or wtf but shit happens to me every day or so.

 

[Tony at Home]

I find it hilarious Sinestro and Zod from Injustice 1 are being used as the "Good" counter examples to the current meta. Zod was broken as shit.

BEHOLD, THE INJUSTICE META

Yeah I really fucking miss that. Sinestro traiting up and throwing the entire stage at me with unblockable interactables was fun too

Does NRS pay you to shove your head that far up their ass? Like... do they provide wipes for you when you choose to occasionally retract your nose from their sphincter?

The people want to know.

Where was he wrong though? You didn't refute any of his points. The last few tournaments we've had were incredibly hype and had characters present in the top 8 that spit in the face of the tier lists most people are putting out nowadays. How is that not a valid refutation of a meta.

 

[Wigy]

who says I was even talking about that? When I say new tech is discovered daily, I mean D A I L Y. New combos, new setups, new oki, new everything. The buffer o/s is just one day of many.

Here have an optimized Kollector setup for spare change figured out less than 24 hours ago

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1175185145663557634

ill see new stuff I have never seen before tomorrow, day after that, and the day after that too.

Stop fucking whining that there ain't no new stuff when you are too ignorant to see whats going around in the community.

I'll concede that this is exactly the kind of cool healthy tech that I want to see. For the majority of the cast these things really don't exist though.

I'd be amazed and eat my words if you could find much more of this. He's one of the few characters with setup potential.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Crimsonshadow is very special and one day him and roy arkon may announce their love for nrs + each other and elope but... Lets not be too hard on the guy. Crimson tho for real bro do you not see any issues with this game whatsoever? Just act a little more like a human and people will relate to your PoV way more.

I’ve definitely pointed out the stuff I don’t like, like the way fatal and krushing blows are set up — I wish they were changed. There are things I like and don’t like, just like anyone else.

However, I don’t see anyone addressing the actual tournament scene — we’ve had the biggest turnout so far in the history of our scene. So regardless of what you like or don’t like about the game, saying that it’s close to dead is flat-out untrue, both offline and online.

 

[Wigy]

@LawAbidingCitizen

FB setups are not new tech

OS bug is not tech it's a bug and even if it's intentional, which I doubt it's garbage tech and shouldn't be in the game.