General/Other - Covert Ops Discuss covert ops

[x TeeJay o]

If im not mistaken Kitana and Subzero has the best parry, only because it parries high, mid, and low attacks.
You can down 3 Liu Kang and Sonya parry with out being parried and Kano parries have different commands, which makes it harder to react what the opponent is going to do.

Kitanas parry doesn't parry lows

 

[CompleteMadness]

Kitanas parry doesn't parry lows

Oo ty, because the other day I fought her and she parried. I litterally waited like 5 seconds to attack, and it still parried me! Lmao I was shocked, most parties are not active that long.

 

[NeroOps]

Kitanas parry doesn't parry lows

You're right mybad lol i thought it had parry lows.

 

[Dedlock]

See Covert Ops are for risk addicts, there is no such thing as safety here, Sonya's ex parries can turn a match around in your favour but be ready to pay dearly for a miscalculation and also to lose a bar in the process.

For example, if Raiden has you cornered and you take a shot and ex parrying him you either turn the tide to your favour or be prepared for 40% worth of pain and to lose the match in the process.

Her normal parries give you very litte for the risk involved but they are useful against rush down opponents.

 

[x TeeJay o]

Oo ty, because the other day I fought her and she parried. I litterally waited like 5 seconds to attack, and it still parried me! Lmao I was shocked, most parties are not active that long.

Yeah you can hold it forever lol its fun using it too ha

 

[thlityoursloat]

See Covert Ops are for risk addicts, there is no such thing as safety here, Sonya's ex parries can turn a match around in your favour but be ready to pay dearly for a miscalculation and also to lose a bar in the process.

For example, if Raiden has you cornered and you take a shot and ex parrying him you either turn the tide to your favour or be prepared for 40% worth of pain and to lose the match in the process.

Her normal parries give you very litte for the risk involved but they are useful against rush down opponents.

Not really. Commando Kano and Ermac say hi.

 

[Zoidberg747]

See Covert Ops are for risk addicts, there is no such thing as safety here, Sonya's ex parries can turn a match around in your favour but be ready to pay dearly for a miscalculation and also to lose a bar in the process.

For example, if Raiden has you cornered and you take a shot and ex parrying him you either turn the tide to your favour or be prepared for 40% worth of pain and to lose the match in the process.

Her normal parries give you very litte for the risk involved but they are useful against rush down opponents.

You can cancel out of MS and you are safe. She's not as risky as you guys are saying lol.

 

[thlityoursloat]

You can cancel out of MS and you are safe. She's not as risky as you guys are saying lol.

Not only that but she has tons of ways to stall getting punished.
In the case of Ermac, you have to commit, and if you're wrong you can't do fancy silly shit to avoid getting punished.

E: yep, B14 MSc is safe against 11f reversals and B332 is a -5 gapless hit confirmable string.

 

[Tinkerbell]

So a quick thing about air grab... Does this ever work? The only time I've ever found it useful is when I jump kick someone and it looks swaggy. Or it connects after MS4, Jump kick, air grab. If there is ever a head-to-head with someone actually attacking me in the air, it loses every time that I've tried. Are there any characters' moves that it actually beats out or is there any practical use for this?

 

[errormacro7]

You can cancel out of MS and you are safe. She's not as risky as you guys are saying lol.

To this day, there are people who still play CO Sonya on autopilot and then complain she's risky. You gotta play the mind games, bruh.

 

[NeroOps]

So a quick thing about air grab... Does this ever work? The only time I've ever found it useful is when I jump kick someone and it looks swaggy. Or it connects after MS4, Jump kick, air grab. If there is ever a head-to-head with someone actually attacking me in the air, it loses every time that I've tried. Are there any characters' moves that it actually beats out or is there any practical use for this?

Its best if you forward jump 2 then air grab other then that its useless unless opponent doesn't do anything when going air to air. Then again it doesn't do much damage so people rarely do it. It's something different if you're tired of doing same links.

 

[Dedlock]

Its best if you forward jump 2 then air grab other then that its useless unless opponent doesn't do anything when going air to air. Then again it doesn't do much damage so people rarely do it. It's something different if you're tired of doing same links.

The air grab for me is just for show, Sometimes it connects after a jump F3, most of the times it doesn't. It's a shame it's not as useful as Cassies, they could atleast make it a hidden Brutality.

 

[Tinkerbell]

Confession, I hate corners. Not shocking, I think being on the inside of the corner is the worst. Who doesn't? I can NEVER get out of them. Does CO Sonya have even one decent wakeup attack or other method of trying to get out? My newbness overrides my brain when I try to use an ex and my fingers get lost in the panic about half the time.

The big surprise is even when I have someone trapped in the corner, I'm secretly scared. I just try like hell to either go for one or two hits before they escape or block and try to punish their wakeup attack. I've found that the 1+MS1 is usually good for 10% damage. f4+MS2 can also get 10% most of the time because they block the first f4 kick but don't duck in time for the MS2. Sometimes it is a launcher and she can start a combo but sometimes she is too far way (I have yet to figure out why). Does any tips are tricks on this? I haven't seen too many CO Sonya corner combos on the combo thread.

 

[HugeMcBigLarge]

@Tinkerbell

Corner never felt too oppressive to me tbh. Definitely have to keep a cool head, and if you find you are fumbling inputs, literally just take a breath before you hit rematch and be conscious of your button pushes. It normally takes me 2 or 3 matches after I realize I am really just fumbling to think of my buttons and get the inputs clean. Nerves are real, and you just have to be conscious of it.

My corner game in Sonya can be defined as b3321 MS hit confirm. The last hit of that string is actually a tick throw from MS1, if they do anything during it you can easily confirm into MS3. MS4 will NOT connect if you do the 1 on b3321. However, as you can see in the gameplay vids ms3 launches for a combo in the corner. If you know they have armor options, b33 will occasionally break slow armor, but I like to stand over them and 121. It will keep you on top of them, you end up +2 and it comes out fast enough that it will break a significant amount of the casts' armor. So after a corner knockdown, do 121 (or just 12, also +2. This is situational. If they have to block the 121 on block, you're fine. However if you find they are staying on the ground and they are jumping out afterwards, use 12 which should whiff over their body, then d1/d3 to check them when they do actually stand up).

If you know they don't have armor, do a njk or njp to take the plus frames into some form of 50/50. As far as I think, when I have a knockdown in the corner, I have 3 options: b14 -> MS, b3321 -> MS, OR 121. All mix ups from MS apply (ms2 cancel to safety/more pressure, ms4 for armor break for spammers, ms3 to jail if they are jumping out, or ms1 if they're just blocking)

 

[HugeMcBigLarge]

And because I love blocks of text, new post to do when you are cornered as CO.

What I observe a lot of Sonya's do when they are cornered is wait for an opportunity to EX arc kick out. EX leg grab is an ok option and pretty hard to punish UNLESS your opponent has a good advancing string (match up specific which option you should use). Throwing out either of the armor options or the standard stand and grab *TM or stand d1 after knockdown, this typifies most of what I see other Sonya's doing.

What I do is pretty much look for an EX parry. Almost all my bar in CO goes to EX parries, and if I happen to get an X-ray, all the better. Once you catch 1 or 2 EX parries, you've taken 40% health each time and stolen the corner and begun your blender of offense (as outlined above!). People become terrified of this and just start throwing out pokes on oki situation or will almost always go into their low starter if they have one. You've forced them to be predictable, and after you block what you've conditioned them to pressure you with, you get a 50/50 on them.

Another piece of advice I would really advocate looking into is to just go for a string while cornered. Sonya's have a tendency to jump (rightfully so, because her ji1 is op as hell), but because it's such a good tool, people will use it regularly, especially when cornered. Once you've blocked appropriately and you get a turn to take an action w/ your back to the corner, just go into b14 ->MS and end a combo in leg grab. You get positioning advantage.

 

[HugeMcBigLarge]

Relevant corner combos w/ CO

Starters = b14, b332.
Starters that connect to only MS3 = 121, b3321, f2

Starter, MS 4, s3, 12, 12 ,12 ,12 ,124

Starter, MS 3, run forward 12, 12, 12, 12, 124

You should be able to get 12 to connect 5 times total, but in almost every case I only do 12 four times (12, 12, 12, 124) unless I visually see that they look high enough to get another loop in there.

 

[YoloRoll1stHit]

Starter, MS 4, s3, 12, 12 ,12 ,12 ,124

starter, MS 4, F4, 12, 12, 11 MS 1
This does more damage and way easier than your combo. after MS 4 delay a bit then F4, both hits will connect

 

[NeroOps]

If you can land a jump 1 or 2 or divekick for any corner combo it will always help with damage as you can see here 40% using 1 bar. That jump 1 at start is the extra 1 damage which makes 41% which isn't necessary. CLICK IMAGE IN SPOILER TO ZOOM IN. If anyone didn't know

Spoiler: combo

I know a lot CO Sonya users don't do her back+3,3, up+4 so here is 35% with 1 bar its 33% with out any bars.

Spoiler: combo

If you can land her 1,2,1 MS+3 here is a 34% 1 bar corner combo. Its 37% if you land a divekick first.

Spoiler: combo

Here is a 41% 1 bar. you can get 40% meterless doing same combo but at start jump 1 or 2 into divekick and at the end use normal leg grab.

Spoiler: combo

You have a lot different options getting decent damage while in the corner with out her ex parry.
I could explain different ways to keep opponent guessing when you use her Back+3,3 while in the corner but meh lol
Maybe i should have posted these in combo thread although that thread is full of demo combos so whatever

 

[CompleteMadness]

If you can land a jump 1 or 2 or divekick for any corner combo it will always help with damage as you can see here 40% using 1 bar. That jump 1 at start is the extra 1 damage which makes 41% which isn't necessary. CLICK IMAGE IN SPOILER TO ZOOM IN. If anyone didn't know

Spoiler: combo

I know a lot CO Sonya users don't do her back+4,4, up+3 so here is 35% with 1 bar its 33% with out any bars.

Spoiler: combo

If you can land her 1,2,1 MS+4 here is a 34% 1 bar corner combo. Its 37% if you land a divekick first.

Spoiler: combo

You have a lot different options getting decent damage while in the corner with out her ex parry.
I could explain different ways to keep opponent guessing when you use her Back+4,4 while in the corner but meh lol
Maybe i should have posted these in combo thread although that thread is full of demo combos so whatever

Those combos are great but Sonya CO is OP in the corner shouldn't of ended those combos with bf4. Should of ended them with 124. Hard knockdown, alot of her strings will meaty break armour and pure 50/50. I switched from Sonya to Cassie but when I played Sonya if I got someone in the corner it was over pretty much.

 

[NeroOps]

@CompleteMadness
You get more damage using leg grab. I know what you mean though some times i use 1,2,3 to keep them in the corner depending how i feel.
If i decided to use leg grab at the end i usually run cancel to them into down+4 then back grab to throw them back into corner.
If they delay the wake up and you miss the down+4 they might still get hit by the grab if they aren't ready for it.
Some ex attacks work against the run cancel down+4 some won't like J.cage side kick would whiff so you can't do it all the time you have to be wise about it.
Some times the down+4 will interrupt the startup of some ex wake up attacks depending on the timing of opponents ex wake up inputs.
Its RISKY but i know it works for me occasionally.
CO variation is all about taking risks so yea.
If you're good at reading people and know they will wake up ex attack you can run cancel into block and force them to waste a bar.

 

[Tinkerbell]

Relevant corner combos w/ CO

Starters = b14, b332.
Starters that connect to only MS3 = 121, b3321, f2

Starter, MS 4, s3, 12, 12 ,12 ,12 ,124

Starter, MS 3, run forward 12, 12, 12, 12, 124

You should be able to get 12 to connect 5 times total, but in almost every case I only do 12 four times (12, 12, 12, 124) unless I visually see that they look high enough to get another loop in there.

Thank you SO much for your very in-depth thoughts on corner punishment and escape! =)

 

[Tinkerbell]

starter, MS 4, F4, 12, 12, 11 MS 1
This does more damage and way easier than your combo. after MS 4 delay a bit then F4, both hits will connect

Thanks! I'm all about easier combos. I usually take the easier, less complex, but more likely to work combos if they don't do too much damage less than the more complicated ones that I am likely to mess up more.

I've tried to lab this combo but I'm having trouble hitting the 12 after the F4. I'll keep working at the timing. Juggling in the corner for me is currently limited to 12, 12, 124, but it's all about practice, practice, practice.

 

[NeroOps]

Thanks! I'm all about easier combos. I usually take the easier, less complex, but more likely to work combos if they don't do too much damage less than the more complicated ones that I am likely to mess up more.

I've tried to lab this combo but I'm having trouble hitting the 12 after the F4. I'll keep working at the timing. Juggling in the corner for me is currently limited to 12, 12, 124, but it's all about practice, practice, practice.

That combo isn't possible. Opponent isn't high enough in the air to land the 1,2 after the F+4 if you do MS+4 first. I figured he meant MS+3.
He's probably starting the number count on kicks a/x instead of punches x/square depending what console you use.

 

[ShadyHeart]

That combo isn't possible. Opponent isn't high enough in the air to land the 1,2 after the F+4 if you do MS+4 first. I figured he meant MS+3.
He's probably starting the number count on kicks a/x instead of punches x/square depending what console you use.

You can do MS Cartwheel > F4 > 12. I can't consistently do it but it's very possible. That said, I just use starter > MS4 > jik > 12 > 12 > 12 > 124. Add another 12 if you're good at it and won't drop the final 124. Super easy.

 

[YoloRoll1stHit]

You can do MS Cartwheel > F4 > 12. I can't consistently do it but it's very possible. That said, I just use starter > MS4 > jik > 12 > 12 > 12 > 124. Add another 12 if you're good at it and won't drop the final 124. Super easy.

You guys find MS 4, F4, 12 hard? I can do it more consistently that Cassie's corner combos lol. The point is using F4 12, 12, 124 does more damage than jump kick 12, 12, 12, 124. The jump kick reduces damage of next hits to 0.9, that's huge damage scaling