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Did Midway make this game with a Tier list in mind?

Do any Devs? Did Midway make this game knowing Kabal would be top, HSmoke second, Kung Third, ect?

Or did they just give everybody their moves and let people run with it to make their own tier lists? Or did they just have some sort of idea?

For example, they knew Kabal's spin is godly, but not THAT godly? Anyone know?
 

MKK hanzo

Moderator
Premium Supporter
I think they even dont know how to play it comnpetitively. Eddie Ferrer and Paulo Garcia were behind the testing so there were some backup for beta test.

I think Lex can answer this better.
 

dreemernj

Ambassador
Administrator
I don't know for sure but I seriously doubt they built the game with the tiers in mind. They made the characters with what they hoped would be a balanced set of moves each and then did testing/tweaking to figure out where things were too powerful or too weak.
 

Lex

Noob
MKK hanzo_hasashi said:
I think they even dont know how to play it comnpetitively. Eddie Ferrer and Paulo Garcia were behind the testing so there were some backup for beta test.

I think Lex can answer this better.
it generally takes years for top tiers to be discovered.

if only we could test games for years before release....
 

MKK hanzo

Moderator
Premium Supporter
Off:

Lex: you played both Paulo and Eddie?. I know Paulo was good but dont know anything about Eddie. How good was him? I saw that he remained with Midway and the MK crew for testing the 3d games too.
 

Lex

Noob
eddie is really good. very patient usub player. playing against eddie for 10+ years improves your offense immensely lol
 

dubson

Noob
They didnt.

Tiers are always set up after intense playing and tournaments. The people are the ones who determine the tiers, based on high tournament play and match-ups.
 

MKF30

Fujin and Ermac for MK 11
Premium Supporter
lex said:
MKK hanzo_hasashi said:
I think they even dont know how to play it comnpetitively. Eddie Ferrer and Paulo Garcia were behind the testing so there were some backup for beta test.

I think Lex can answer this better.
it generally takes years for top tiers to be discovered.

if only we could test games for years before release....

This is a good point, in fact a lot of the MK haters in general need to understand that point.

The people that often rip MK or any fighter for that matter due to "unbalance" will sometimes take shots at Midway team, however unlike us they have a deadline and you can only discover so many glitches or tier differences in that time.

I mean I know UMK3 is the best balance game out of all of them, but if you're good in the others you'll find a way to counter anybody. :wink:

This also applies to any fighter for that matter really.

I don't think Midway went nutty about the tiers, but I do believe they tried their best to balance it out compared to MK3 where Subby was literally an "Ice God" in that game.
 
Well, making MK2, how can you not see that Mileena can shoot Sai's constantly like No ones business. It's Literally impossible to not notice that.

You can see where they tried to make adjustments in UMK3. For example, Sheeva is bottom tier. 42% autocombo, but to compensate, they give her horrible hitboxes.

Unsub, Can stop anyone in their tracks for free damage, but has weak combos.

They knew what was possible with Reptile and his juggles. That's obvious.

I saw enough to wonder if they had a set tier list in mind, and they knew off the Bat, Kabal was 1, HSmoke, 2, ect.
 

marv

Noob
Of course with umk3, they already had mk3 out there and plenty of feedback. And with all the arcade games they released multiple revisions. In some ways it was more like open source software, where you release early and often.

Now they still release early, but only once.
 

MKF30

Fujin and Ermac for MK 11
Premium Supporter
To dave and scheisse, Scorpion is Boon's favorite MK character so he obviously doesn't show favoritism towards certain characters otherwise we all know Scorpion would be the best in every MK game. I read a lot about things pertaining to MK being the huge fan I am so don't mind me :p

He is a beast though in MK:DA, MKD and in MKA for those here who never played those or don't know the tier list in those games.

He's top 5 in those games.


Isn't is still debatable as to who's better to this day concerning Kabal vs. Human Smoke?
 
MKF30 said:
Isn't is still debatable as to who's better to this day concerning Kabal vs. Human Smoke?
Nope. There is still some debate over the tier list, but Kabal is always 1, and Smoke 2.

Some say Reptile and Kano should switch, Some say Unsub and Scorpion should swap, and some think Nightwolf should be higher. But Kabal is always Top, close to god tier, and Smoke is always 2.
 
Well I hate to disagree but, I personally think Smoke and Kung can be debatable as 2nd. Just as Reptile and Kano can be debatable as 4th.

Personally I see it as:

Kabal 1st (of course)

Kung 2nd

Smoke 3rd

Nightwolf 4th

Reptile 5th
 

Derek

Noob
I don't think any company that makes fighting games makes them with a tier list in mind. They make them with balance in mind. That being said they tried to make UMK3 as balanced as they could in their opinion at that time.

My personal list goes something like this:

1. Kabal
2. H. Smoke
3. Kung Lao
4. Kano
5. Ermac(He's easier to use the Reptile bring him up a spot)
6. Reptile

Other than changing Reptile's place I feel the tier list is 100 percent accurate. I know why Reptile is ranked higher than Ermac but since I feel Ermac is a easier character to learn and you don't have to put so much effort into playing him that he should be a spot higher.
 

Tim Static

Adminerator
l SuGaR l said:
I don't think any company that makes fighting games makes them with a tier list in mind. They make them with balance in mind. That being said they tried to make UMK3 as balanced as they could in their opinion at that time.

My personal list goes something like this:

1. Kabal
2. H. Smoke
3. Kung Lao
4. Kano
5. Ermac(He's easier to use the Reptile bring him up a spot)
6. Reptile

Other than changing Reptile's place I feel the tier list is 100 percent accurate. I know why Reptile is ranked higher than Ermac but since I feel Ermac is a easier character to learn and you don't have to put so much effort into playing him that he should be a spot higher.
Your list is exactly right IMO also. Very good Sugar.

However in my own personal opinion, I think an expert Kung Lao player is a #2 over H.Smoke everyday of the week.
 
abc ur dead0 said:
You can see where they tried to make adjustments in UMK3. For example, Sheeva is bottom tier. 42% autocombo, but to compensate, they give her horrible hitboxes.

Unsub, Can stop anyone in their tracks for free damage, but has weak combos.

They knew what was possible with Reptile and his juggles. That's obvious.

I saw enough to wonder if they had a set tier list in mind, and they knew off the Bat, Kabal was 1, HSmoke, 2, ect.
Sheeva was always powerful and have long reach.

Usub has weak combos but he was also toned down. if you'd ever played mk3 instead of umk3...you'll understand why. You can easily pull off 80%+ off a regular ground freeze in mid of stage and work your way to corner.

I never learned Reptile so no clue here but we did found that other infinite against cpu. (combo into air, dash, hop, combo into air, repeat)

When an mk3 test machine hit Diversions, Kabal had infinite dash and Hsmoke did not exist... so you can throw that set tier list in mind out the window. Top tier chars didn't balanced out until umk3 and then was again fixed in revision 1.2 (I think) but for wavenet. Then them sons of bitches took the machine out and that's when mk in general lost its competitive lust at Diversions.

-free
 
MKK hanzo_hasashi said:
Off:

Lex: you played both Paulo and Eddie?. I know Paulo was good but dont know anything about Eddie. How good was him? I saw that he remained with Midway and the MK crew for testing the 3d games too.
I think I can also answer this for I have played them both even before mk2. Eddie didn't do as much run/jab but he was a mind reader type player. He anticipated your every move and counter. Also got an uncanny uppercut. He got the range down to a pixel. Did I forget to mention he was pretty good too? He was good at other fighters as well. I think even today, Eddie has an all-pass card to come and go as he pleases with Midway. Fucker always leaves doritos' bits on racing games seats (j/k)

I think the people behind mk3 early testings was Vinikour, Eddie and (I'm unsure if he's a tester but... ) I forget his name but he was a gothic rocker/emo type under wavenet name of "pacman". I played him during my few visits to Midway testing Rush sanfran wavenet and Cruisin' the World

-free
 
l SuGaR l said:
I don't think any company that makes fighting games makes them with a tier list in mind. They make them with balance in mind. That being said they tried to make UMK3 as balanced as they could in their opinion at that time.

My personal list goes something like this:

1. Kabal
2. H. Smoke
3. Kung Lao
4. Kano
5. Ermac(He's easier to use the Reptile bring him up a spot)
6. Reptile

Other than changing Reptile's place I feel the tier list is 100 percent accurate. I know why Reptile is ranked higher than Ermac but since I feel Ermac is a easier character to learn and you don't have to put so much effort into playing him that he should be a spot higher.
Sorry Sugar, but I have to disagree with you. Though Ermac is an easier character to learn, all his high damage combos are from aahp's, which are harder to start. Another thing is that some of his combos are more difficult on other characters, but he does have a knee popup so I'd put them about even. In the right hands one could be better than the other though.
 
Scheisse said:
Personally I don't think Reptile deserves to be in the top 5.
I would swap his slimy ass with Stryker. Yes, he is that low.

Few people play good with him. Nobody is consistent using him with online play against everybody they play.

Yes, he is capable of huge damage. Typically people try this combo repeatedly and miss the uppercut after even 2 volleys which doesn't add up to much damage and they can end up taking damage from it.
You obviously haven't played very many good Reptiles if you would rank him as low as Stryker. Like I've always said, just because not that many people are good with him, doesn't mean the potential isn't there. Take on Shock Or ded's Reptile with Stryker and try and come out on top :wink: