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Did Midway make this game with a Tier list in mind?

abc ur dead0 said:
You obviously haven't played very many good Reptiles if you would rank him as low as Stryker. Like I've always said, just because not that many people are good with him, doesn't mean the potential isn't there. Take on Shock Or ded's Reptile with Stryker and try and come out on top :wink:
Thats because there isn't very many good Reptiles.
 

MKF30

Fujin and Ermac for MK 11
Premium Supporter
Paulo is a pretty good MK player from what I've seen, Mastermalone a friend of mine is another top guy in the 3D mk's that's known like myself from MKD/MKA online xbox, he played him personally at E3 and lost to paulo a bit and gave him props.

2D, I haven't seen much of him but hear overall he's one of Midway's best testers/game players.

Seems like a fun guy to play and chat with also.

Anyway, yeah interesting tier lists
 

NinjaGrinder

A living, Breathing Piece of Defecating Meat
I think mk3 was a rush job. it was merely a "delay" for the real game to come out...they didn't have enough time so the released what they had. a horrible, horrible game.

umk was and still is perfect for me. I love the game for what it is. I don't think they had tier lists in mind when the released the game, they just threw some "balance" here and there I guess.
 
I looked at it as when MK3 came out, Midway thought we would really like it, but it turned out to be shit. So then Midway was like "Everyone, WE FUCKED UP with MK3! We're Sorry... BUT Behold, Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3! More combos, better speed, Extra moves and your favorite characters return!! You're so gonna like this better! We promise." I thought of it that way because it was true in my eyes.
 

NinjaGrinder

A living, Breathing Piece of Defecating Meat
hmm, idk. for me, they wanted mk3 to be like umk3 ended being. but they were running out of time and they were forced to release what they had (mk3) and thought "hey! why don't make some extra cash? let's release what we have so far, and then a couple of months later we release the complete game, everyone think is an upgrade and we keep people dropping quarters for much more time :) "
I'm not saying this is wrong. business are business. it's just my opinion.
 

MKF30

Fujin and Ermac for MK 11
Premium Supporter
Ehh, I don't think MK3 was THAT bad lol. I mean MK4 in a lot of cases was worse IMO, MKD and MKA have infinites that are easy as pie. Kabal didn't tone down much from MK3, he's still a top tier in UMK3 but Sub HAD to be toned down. His clone=insane ownage.

I'll admit though Subby was way too powerful in MK3, but besides having the final version of MK3 in UMK3 I also believe it was made due to lack of popular characters a la Scorpion, Kitana, Mileena, "the mysterious Ermac", Smoke, Reptile, Mileena etc, etc.

A lot of fans complained that they wanted these characters in MK3, so they were put in UMK3 :) besides polishing the game up a bit and doing more balancing.

When Midway gives themselves a long timeline, they make good games.

UMk3 very good game, MK:DA good game, Psi-Ops great game etc.
 

NinjaGrinder

A living, Breathing Piece of Defecating Meat
MKF30 said:
A lot of fans complained that they wanted these characters in MK3, so they were put in UMK3 :) besides polishing the game up a bit and doing more balancing.
well, I don't think so. even when mk3 was unfinished and showed at videogames expos like acme and stuff they were announcing they were gonna release another version of the game including more chars, stages, moves, etc.
that's why I think mk3 was just a "let's give 'em something to play with! in the meantime we can finish the game"
mk3 is garbage imo.
 

Shock

Administrator
Administrator
MK3 was an officially released Beta for UMK3 with a completed look. I remember them talking about UMK3 before the final version of MK3 was released.
 

MKF30

Fujin and Ermac for MK 11
Premium Supporter
NinjaGrinder said:
MKF30 said:
A lot of fans complained that they wanted these characters in MK3, so they were put in UMK3 :) besides polishing the game up a bit and doing more balancing.
well, I don't think so. even when mk3 was unfinished and showed at videogames expos like acme and stuff they were announcing they were gonna release another version of the game including more chars, stages, moves, etc.
that's why I think mk3 was just a "let's give 'em something to play with! in the meantime we can finish the game"
mk3 is garbage imo.

Well, I read it a while back but that was before it got out that what Shock just said about Midway planning on making UMK3 during MK3, to the fans of the storyline you have to realize that a lot of people complained about no Scorpion in MK3, Kitana, Mileena, Reptile etc.

Now, whether Midway planned on putting them in UMK3 all along I don't know, I'll take a guess and say yes since they're big characters but the fans didn't know that.
 

NinjaGrinder

A living, Breathing Piece of Defecating Meat
idk I think mk3 came out in april and umk3 in september. please someone correct me...

MKF30: what shock and I said was practically the same. I think the final mk3 version was umk3, but they did a good marketing job :D
 

MKF30

Fujin and Ermac for MK 11
Premium Supporter
Yeah, I know man Midway from what I read, heard already had the game in the making but the fans still flipped over no Scorpion in MK3 initially lol.

I was one of them 8)

The game had to be made anyway :)
 
In my opinion I think they tried to avoid an alleged tier list and attempted to create a system where all characters were equal and any character regardless of moves or features could beat anybody and it was up to the player to fully take advantage of their abilities and decide the outcome of potential matches.
 

Shock

Administrator
Administrator
I'm pretty sure tiers were being used as far back as SF2 which would be just before people started using the internet. Remember, even though there was no internet, tournaments still existed so tiers were being developed and video game magazines were the main source of information on character strengths and tournament info. Moving forward, before the internet was being widely used, much of the information was exchanged through primitive boards and irc which sort of coincides with the release of many fighting games and the evolution of both are intertwined. Similar tier lists popped up in different regions all the time for different games. I'm sure when they made UMK3 they figured the players would figure it out, but I don't think they intentionally made the game with any specific balancing in mind. They might have known a few things would be very powerful.
 
I'm willing to bet that the Mortal Kombat team didn't have the foresight to intentionally shoot for balance and that it just sort of happened, as it does in any balanced fighting game that isn't Virtua Fighter or Super Turbo HD Remix.
 
no developer consciously does that.
That's not entirely true. It is in most cases, but in fighting games that are designed for competition, such as Guilty Gear XX, Virtua Fighter, and Super Street Fighter II Turbo HD Remix, were meticulously playtested to make every character viable.
 
In some sorts yes they did make the game with a tier list in mind. (MKT, MKA, MKD, ect.) but other games like MKDA, MK4, MK2, MK1, MK3 they wouldn;t have do that. but then again they never did balance Sub-Zero in MK3 compared to his MK1-MK2 days which he was just the "Mind Games" type of player.
 

Shock

Administrator
Administrator
In some sorts yes they did make the game with a tier list in mind. (MKT, MKA, MKD, ect.) but other games like MKDA, MK4, MK2, MK1, MK3 they wouldn;t have do that. but then again they never did balance Sub-Zero in MK3 compared to his MK1-MK2 days which he was just the "Mind Games" type of player.
Sub went from being terrible in MK and MKII, to Super Beast in MK3, to balanced in UMK3. Classic Sub, is about on par with MKII in terms of placement.
 

mhtdtr

Ancestors, give me strength!
it is impossible to do a game with a tier list in mind cause even when the game is out the players discover a lot of things that the programers and testers dont know about it (glitches, moves we can abuse, extrange move propierties, etc...).

it is possible give a char powerfull moves but later is not that good. ed boon loves sub-zero and scorpion. if the can do a tier list creating the game this two always will be top tiers.
 

Shock

Administrator
Administrator
If the people making the game are good enough, they can seed it however they want by giving characters certain advantages and disadvantages. Of course over time things will become slightly different but today with all the cumulative knowledge of fighting games, you could make a game that has a tier list before anyone plays it.
 
Sub went from being terrible in MK and MKII, to Super Beast in MK3, to balanced in UMK3. Classic Sub, is about on par with MKII in terms of placement.
Wasn't talking about that.... I was talking about how he was slower and how he was used to play mind games but thats another time.