Question Death Stroke clearly top ten

[Art]

I don't know why it took me so long to realize but ds is really good. He is easily top ten and IMO just doesn't have top level representation (though I think that mattix guy is pretty good!)
I mean really who does he reallllly even lose to? Maybe mmh, flash?
Has the best ji3 in the game
Has an amazing jump arc that evades many attacks
Has the best f3 in the game IMO
Has good frame trap pressure
Safe combo 50/50 options
Doesn't get outzoned by anyone
Has greaaat footsies tools
Fastest projectiles in the game and good zoning
Great non meter combo damage
Great interactable use
Has ambiguous crossups
Very reliable wakeup
Good aa
Truly an underrated character

Hate to tell you but Scorpion has almost the same Jump In 3.

 

[Rip Torn]

@n-megabytes showed me that you can. he showed me with flash and i figured it might be universal. i could be wrong

also, what range would you be able to punish low guns with bola? most likely at a range that you have better tools to use than low guns. and yes you can totally react to the sound and shoot her out of bolas. based on this alone it sounds like you play exclusively online where deathstroke plays much differently.

You are definitely wrong about back dashing vortex. 111 is +22 on hit while b2 is 15 frames and b1 is 14 frames. The only way you can back dash is if the batgirl player messes up their timing.

I wasn't saying that you can punish low guns with bola, I was saying she gets a free bola check. For example, if we are between full screen and just outside jump distance, you shoot low guns and I block it, she gets to release a bola without DS shooting her out of the startup. Now the bola must be blocked by DS. That puts batgirl at heavy advantage and she gets at least a free dash out of it, maybe even 2 if you don't follow immediately with high guns… I was not saying punish with bola.

Reacting to the sound of bola's is somewhat pointless because you can see and react with high guns, but whatever works for you. This is not a DS beats Batgirl argument though because just about every character in the game can do that.

Why are you saying it sounds like I play online? That makes no sense… It's much worse for BG online if anything. If I only played online I would probably think it was in DS's favor.

Also, everything up close is actually in BG favor. Standing 3 has ok range but what if BG just blocks it? Then what? DS must cancel into something but everything leaves him back at a disadvantage and BG is still in his face. F3 is good but d2 will beat it out and if you MB F3 she can d2~flying bat to beat that out. His F3 is actually pretty slow and a lot of people think you can react to it. His d1 is pretty good but it doesn't lead to much damage. His J3 is amazing but doesn't grant him much of a mixup as you can back dash all the followups (including throws) unless he is right on top of you when it's blocked.

As a Batgirl player, please tell me what I should be afraid of in this MU?

 

[TheMoose]

he is and if for no other reason then its matchups

Agree. DS needs a patient player. I hate that how his basic hits don't cause much damage, but yeah glad to see him make top 8. MIT prove that vs DJT. As for his match up vs BG, yeah IMO think it's not a good one.

 

[xInfra Deadx]

is there even a point to b1u2 f3?? can't you just do a jump 2 and get the same damage? outside of unclashable f3

J2 after B1,U2 feels too wonky and just doesn't come out like it should.

 

[xInfra Deadx]

Hate to tell you but Scorpion has almost the same Jump In 3.

Not even close to DS's J3. Maybe the first week he was out, but not now.

 

[Flagg]

people struggling with b1u2 and hitting his F23 after 323.

speechless!

 

[UsedForGlue]

Ive always thought deathstroke was top 10. But by the way, Deathstroke does not have a "Frame trap", unless you mean, after hitting with a low gun shot, a high gun shot will catch a dash, but that is not a frame trap.I even hear commentators at the highest level refer to frame advantage as a frame trap...

 

[Big Pampering]

Hate to tell you but Scorpion has almost the same Jump In 3.

you mean he used to have almost the same j3

 

[mVp_Ryon]

Guys, the secret to ds is knowing matchups and punishing wakeups. you don't need frame traps to play ds. I was very happy that MIT was able to prove that even with a quite basic deathstroke u can go very far. also I was very disappointed at MIT for playing a quite basic (no setups, maximum punish I saw him pull off was 24%). now about frame traps, ds has frame traps buh it entirely depends on the startup frame of the opponents normals (pokes mostly). now ds d2 is +1 on block so if u continue a d1 or f2 string which is a 7 frame starter, u get a 6 frame starter. now if ur opponents poke is a 6 frame starter or has any 6 frame starter u will trade but if not u can continue your strings after every d2 or 3 which is also +3 on block. also ds ji3 ans scorpion's ji3 are NOT the same. Ds ji3 still hits when he crosses up an opponent who is ducking, scorpion's does not. he's definitely top ten.

 

[dribirut]

Are people really trying to tell me he's hard to use partly brcause of his execution?? C'mon people he does not have high execution.. Also his turtling nature IMO! Makes him one of the easier characters to use

 

[dribirut]

Although def a better character, mmh requires much higher reactions and execution

 

[TONY-T]

I personally think he is viable against EVERY character, even his worst matchups, its all about reads. His corner mixup game and corner combo damage is extremely good. His zoning is one of the best, essentially he can fight you anywhere on screen. His pokes and up close 50/50 mixups are fairly decent. He has great wall carry combos too. His trait is good for ending matches. His j3 is probably the best in the game. He also uses interactables fairly well, especially the background bounce interact. Whether or not all this makes him top 10, i don't know, but you would have to think if he's not top 10, then he would be very close to it.

 

[dribirut]

Although after looking over the cast again there are so many good characters i take back my statement of him being clearly top ten although I still do think he is

 

[Mighty Durpyena]

If people keep saying Deathstroke needs high execution, go play Zatanna and see otherwise

 

[TKB]

Although after looking over the cast again there are so many good characters i take back my statement of him being clearly top ten although I still do think he is

I think with a BGB you could argue him to be top 10. Otherwise he is 11-12.

If people keep saying Deathstroke needs high execution, go play Zatanna and see otherwise

I don't think anyone here is arguing Deathstroke to be harder to use than any other character like Zatanna or Zod or MMH. All they're saying is he's nowhere near easy.

Consistently landing 132 j2, b1u2 f3, or his swaggy BGB and corner combos takes practice.

However I've never played Zatanna so I'll take your word for it that she's difficult to use

 

[JHCRANE 14]

Wow!!! That really escalated quickly!!!

 

[RM Jonnitti]

You are definitely wrong about back dashing vortex. 111 is +22 on hit while b2 is 15 frames and b1 is 14 frames. The only way you can back dash is if the batgirl player messes up their timing.

I wasn't saying that you can punish low guns with bola, I was saying she gets a free bola check. For example, if we are between full screen and just outside jump distance, you shoot low guns and I block it, she gets to release a bola without DS shooting her out of the startup. Now the bola must be blocked by DS. That puts batgirl at heavy advantage and she gets at least a free dash out of it, maybe even 2 if you don't follow immediately with high guns… I was not saying punish with bola.

Reacting to the sound of bola's is somewhat pointless because you can see and react with high guns, but whatever works for you. This is not a DS beats Batgirl argument though because just about every character in the game can do that.

Why are you saying it sounds like I play online? That makes no sense… It's much worse for BG online if anything. If I only played online I would probably think it was in DS's favor.

Also, everything up close is actually in BG favor. Standing 3 has ok range but what if BG just blocks it? Then what? DS must cancel into something but everything leaves him back at a disadvantage and BG is still in his face. F3 is good but d2 will beat it out and if you MB F3 she can d2~flying bat to beat that out. His F3 is actually pretty slow and a lot of people think you can react to it. His d1 is pretty good but it doesn't lead to much damage. His J3 is amazing but doesn't grant him much of a mixup as you can back dash all the followups (including throws) unless he is right on top of you when it's blocked.

As a Batgirl player, please tell me what I should be afraid of in this MU?

its not so much that you need to be afraid of him, he has answers to everything. he has a hard answer that wins against all of your wakeups (shoutouts @RedRaptor10 for posting) and if you dont do anything, it puts me at a range where DS is favored. try dashing between strings. that should work. the im pretty sure it was if you block the overhead you can backdash followups and you can also backdash the low starter after a j3. im not saying that it gets you out of the vortex free but it opens up a bunch of punishment options for the entire cast if this is universal. and what character can interrupt bola from full ass screen without any resources? Frost, DS, mmh, scorpion and i dont think anyone else. but taking away that tool is pretty important because as you said, it leaves her at heavy advantage. if you play someone with real ass reactions they should be able to react to the startup consistently. also, standing 3 by itself is +4. and yeah you can totally react to f3, its still not a bad tool to use though. also j3 on block to another j3 will beat backdashes.

i understand what you're saying about bolas now, yeah you do get that. i was a little confused there.

 

[Rip Torn]

its not so much that you need to be afraid of him, he has answers to everything. he has a hard answer that wins against all of your wakeups (shoutouts @RedRaptor10 for posting) and if you dont do anything, it puts me at a range where DS is favored. try dashing between strings. that should work. the im pretty sure it was if you block the overhead you can backdash followups and you can also backdash the low starter after a j3. im not saying that it gets you out of the vortex free but it opens up a bunch of punishment options for the entire cast if this is universal. and what character can interrupt bola from full ass screen without any resources? Frost, DS, mmh, scorpion and i dont think anyone else. but taking away that tool is pretty important because as you said, it leaves her at heavy advantage. if you play someone with real ass reactions they should be able to react to the startup consistently. also, standing 3 by itself is +4. and yeah you can totally react to f3, its still not a bad tool to use though. also j3 on block to another j3 will beat backdashes.

Ah, yes, you can back dash both of her overhead and low vortex follow ups which don't really negate the 50/50 but they do make it punishable.

I'd say about half the cast has some sort of reaction punish or for bola. Anyway, this is about DS and yes he can negate the bola, but BG doesn't really need it. She can still throw it out after certain knockdowns and she is totally safe + free dashes on block.

Standing 3 is good, but it pushes back, so you can't do much after. Most likely you will push 32, so you can hit confirm that into something (323 at least) but 32 is -6. It's not like you can bully batgirl with just standing 3 because after 2 of them she is walking back and punishing with b12 if she didn't already jump out or back dash. J3 shenanigans will frustrate her but she can make a read and punish that with smoke bombs or flying bat, or just forward dash out. Also, the same forward dash will go under his f3 if he does j3 > f3.

I didn't know about the anti-wakeup tech, but will it beat db3,1? You make some good points and there are reasons why DS can contend with Batgirl. If he lands the first combo and puts her in the corner she better guess right or it could be over. I feel like it's very similar to the BG v. Raven matchup actually, which is also in BG's favor. If Raven happens to get a big life lead though, it's hard for BG to comeback.