Question - Ferra/Torr Dat KP3 bandwagon

[Blewdew]

2f4 is also a hkd with juggle priorities so I can imagine using roll as combo extender like we do now and when you end your combo with it it's a hkd

 

[Kamikaze_Highlander]

yea like @Blewdew said. Connecting bf3 at the end of any worthwhile combo is very difficult, so far I've only found 2 meterless versions, both >30%. Though thinking about it. if 2f4 remains a hkd, and cancellable, what's the point really of making bf2 a hkd with reduced damage? except maybe the few rarew cases when we're in the corner and end with d1xxbf2

@joeldm 's I don't think any part of b1 string needs to allow combo extension with bf2, as we can hitconfrim that into EX db2 or bf3. But 42+4 and 112+4 absolutely. 42+4 would be awesome as we could have a hit confirmable meterless combo starter for (hopefully) really good damage, this should come with an overall damage reduction to lackey. 38% off 42+4, maybe 31-32% of 2f4.

 

[Doombawkz]

Lackey's main issue isn't anything listed here.
You guys need to broaden your horizons. Play the variation and you'll realize pretty fast what the biggest weakness he has is.
It's not his 50/50 game.

 

[Doombawkz]

Universal Buffs:
f.3's hitbox is returned to being an overhead

Lackey buffs:

d.1 goes from -6 to -2
b.f.2 goes from -6 to -2
d.b.2's hitbox is adjusted to be slightly further back, enabling it to cover the space directly above Torr.
EX d.b.2 and EX b.f.2 no longer lose armor during the second half of the attack
b.f.2's hitbox adjusted to better fit the animation (going under high projectiles)
EX d.b.2 has extended pushback on the first hit, preventing some characters from low-profiling the second attack

Lackey's hitbox while jumping changed to prevent certain unnecessary collisions with other moves (clipping into ice clone, forceballs, and so on)

EX d.b.f.1 can be used to leave the opponent closer to Torr by inputting the down direction during the animation

 

[Kamikaze_Highlander]

f.3's hitbox is returned to being an overhead

#theyneedsit

EX d.b.f.1 can be used to leave the opponent closer to Torr by inputting the down direction during the animation

This is cool, would turn Lakcey into more of the pressure monster he's supposed to be.

 

[Blewdew]

Universal Buffs:
f.3's hitbox is returned to being an overhead

Lackey buffs:

d.1 goes from -6 to -2
b.f.2 goes from -6 to -2
d.b.2's hitbox is adjusted to be slightly further back, enabling it to cover the space directly above Torr.
EX d.b.2 and EX b.f.2 no longer lose armor during the second half of the attack
b.f.2's hitbox adjusted to better fit the animation (going under high projectiles)
EX d.b.2 has extended pushback on the first hit, preventing some characters from low-profiling the second attack

Lackey's hitbox while jumping changed to prevent certain unnecessary collisions with other moves (clipping into ice clone, forceballs, and so on)

EX d.b.f.1 can be used to leave the opponent closer to Torr by inputting the down direction during the animation

I agree with basically everything except d1 being -2

 

[Shade667]

Also, u mean f32 being overhead right? Not just f3?

 

[omooba]

increase active frames of low and OH throw. Pretty fucking sick and tired of watching Ferra clip through enemies fullscreen because they were walking backward, did they not buff the travel speed in XL? They still are easily reactable at max range and jumping back is a no risk option-hell no

• R/V only - f2 is now -10 on block up from -7. b2 starter is already safe (too fucking safe imo), along with options to cancel into safe or plus frame mix ups off of f2. Lackey has one safe launcher, and no safe specials to cancel into, and with the amount of safe mix up options R/V have, f2 should be unsafe-hell no

• Return armour properties of EX grab and stab. I don't think there is any armour break in the game now that this armour can consistently eat, and if there is the timing has to frame perfect, or the string is conveniently grab immune.-meh

nerfs

• Remove EX OH and Low launchers. we have already have two easily hit confirm strings that have tons of advantage to easily PnG into f2.-meh

Alternatively

• 5% decrease to PnG buff. Currently at three stacks we have very easy 65%-NO

• make meterless charge safe, -5 from -9 -NO
• if a projectile is eaten, increase Torr's running speed(want I would like the most) if a projectile is eaten during start up, the rest of the start up animation is cancelled and Torr starts running immediately. I think this is a totally fair reward for hitting a 4 frame window. this would take anywhere from 29-26 frames of start up off. This would make almost all 3\4 to midscreen charges that are projectiles a clean punish, and full screen the opponent could still block in time. As it stands lackey is incredibly vulnerable to zoning even with this property that is supposed to counter zone.-would be really cool actually

• I would just like more options to tick for Lackey as it a more grappler focused variation with only TWO tick options, where as plenty of characters who are not grapplers have pokes as well as strings they can tickk off -NO

• overall damage reduction, something around 2%-5%, we'd still be hitting around 35% meterless -NO

would be fine if they left the character alone. the only buff he needs is boss toss range increased giving him a variation that doesn't get zoned out. everything thing else is bull and he definitely shouldn't be nerfed other than removing the ex overhead and low. that was just dum

 

[Blewdew]

would be fine if they left the character alone. the only buff he needs is boss toss range increased giving him a variation that doesn't get zoned out. everything thing else is bull and he definitely shouldn't be nerfed other than removing the ex overhead and low. that was just dum

While I don't think ruthless need them to be a good variation I still don't see the reason why they should be removed

 

[Doombawkz]

I agree with basically everything except d1 being -2

d.1 is our main poke tool, bringing it back down to -2 will make sure we still get beaten out by other pokes but don't completely lose our turn when trying to mount pressure.
Maybe -3, but -2 is my personal opinion on whats needed.

 

[Kamikaze_Highlander]

Also, u mean f32 being overhead right? Not just f3?

No he means f3, it used to be oh

 

[omooba]

While I don't think ruthless need them to be a good variation I still don't see the reason why they should be removed

i'm agreeing on that. doesn't need it

 

[Blewdew]

i'm agreeing on that. doesn't need it

to be honest I think this character in general is fine as it is and doesn't need to be touched at all. that's my opinion at least but I feel like I'm alone on that lol

 

[Kamikaze_Highlander]

If we were gonna lose EX tosses I'd like to see the hit advantage uped so we can close the gap better.

 

[Shade667]

No he means f3, it used to be oh

That cant be right? F3 is the knee. It makes sense that its not overhead. I could understand the 2 from f3, 2 but not f3.

 

[Shade667]

to be honest I think this character in general is fine as it is and doesn't need to be touched at all. that's my opinion at least but I feel like I'm alone on that lol

Its a wishlist. Doesnt matter what they need, its what we want.

 

[Kamikaze_Highlander]

It was I swear

 

[joeldm]

@joeldm 's I don't think any part of b1 string needs to allow combo extension with bf2, as we can hitconfrim that into EX db2 or bf3.

I can not see a good reason not to use b1 string with roll combo.
2F4, 112 + 4, 42 + 4 all are high and we would be without an mid

 

[Shade667]

I can not see a good reason not to use b1 string with roll combo.
2F4, 112 + 4, 42 + 4 all are high and we would be without an mid

thats the point. If u want to combo b121 or b12 into roll, u can use ex torryuken. We dont need b12 series to combo into roll. Itd be nice, but not needed. Only ones that need it that dont already are 112+4 and 42+4.

 

[Blewdew]

Its a wishlist. Doesnt matter what they need, its what we want.

Then I wish for no Changes

 

[thlityoursloat]

d.1 is our main poke tool, bringing it back down to -2 will make sure we still get beaten out by other pokes but don't completely lose our turn when trying to mount pressure.
Maybe -3, but -2 is my personal opinion on whats needed.

Are you fucking serious?
If you want to mount pressure, then stop mashing d1, you also don't get 'beat out by other pokes' considering your poke is
a) SIX FUCKING FRAMES
b) reaches from ROUND START

 

[Doombawkz]

Are you fucking serious?
If you want to mount pressure, then stop mashing d1, you also don't get 'beat out by other pokes' considering your poke is
a) SIX FUCKING FRAMES
b) reaches from ROUND START

Your reactions shows how little you know, but fair enough.
As you, with your incredibly limited knowledge has realized, yes we do have a fast low poke that reaches from round start.

Your opponent walks backwards slightly and punishes your recovery
OR
Your opponent jumps, making your lack of anti-air ability an issue
OR
Your opponent blocks, and now you're left at -6


So d.1 is not the end-all-be-all you'd believe it to be. What, then, should we use when attempting to continue pressure on our opponents? After all, we lack any really reliable way to get in, and have next to no realistic safe way around zoning. An opponent who slips away could win the match simply off of one escape.

A 10 frame high with sub-par reach?
An 8-frame high with even worse reach?
Our 6 frame mid thats -6?

And assuming any of those are blocked, what then? Throw another 10 frames and hope to not be jabbed?

With d.1 at -2, we could at the very least make sure that if it's blocked we don't automatically lose our turn and, by extension, the match.

 

[thlityoursloat]

If you don't want to lose your turn then don't d1 when you think they'll block? Jesus christ, that's day 1 meta.
E: Super sorry if I seemed aggressive lol, I just don't see the point of this buff suggestion. Mileena is where she is right now due to all the small, unnecessary plentiful bugs that she received and I have not been enjoying the game very much recently thanks to her.

 

[Doombawkz]

If you don't want to lose your turn then don't d1 when you think they'll block? Jesus christ, that's day 1 meta.
E: Super sorry if I seemed aggressive lol, I just don't see the point of this buff suggestion. Mileena is where she is right now due to all the small, unnecessary plentiful bugs that she received and I have not been enjoying the game very much recently thanks to her.

"When you think they'll block"... Yeah, you see, that's easy to say. However, that means I have to play a 50/50 game as the person trying to do offense.
Adding in also that b.12 and d.1 are Lackey's only actual moves that matter worth anything in terms of pressure.

I have to guess if they will respect the d.1 or not, which frankly some characters don't even have to do that much.
I don't have the luxury of cashing in if I'm right either, because either I risk the slower move and I'll tell you that it's nearly impossible to convert off of b.12 on reaction, and if blocked literally the only reaching move is d.1, or I use d.1 which nets me 2% but nothing else.

A character with no option except to rush down shouldn't have to find themselves with no options when they actually manage to get in. Making d.1 -2 would at the very least make sure that when we DO have to make that split decision to poke, we aren't being told that we no longer get to play the game.

 

[thlityoursloat]

"When you think they'll block"... Yeah, you see, that's easy to say. However, that means I have to play a 50/50 game as the person trying to do offense.
Adding in also that b.12 and d.1 are Lackey's only actual moves that matter worth anything in terms of pressure.

I have to guess if they will respect the d.1 or not, which frankly some characters don't even have to do that much.
I don't have the luxury of cashing in if I'm right either, because either I risk the slower move and I'll tell you that it's nearly impossible to convert off of b.12 on reaction, and if blocked literally the only reaching move is d.1, or I use d.1 which nets me 2% but nothing else.

A character with no option except to rush down shouldn't have to find themselves with no options when they actually manage to get in. Making d.1 -2 would at the very least make sure that when we DO have to make that split decision to poke, we aren't being told that we no longer get to play the game.

So you don't want to make reads on whether you get to mash d1 or not? This is something every character in the game has to do.. pokes were not designed to be pressure tools, especially back-to-back pokes.