Cyrax.

[A F0xy Grampa]

WTF are you talking about, you cant get out of the reset because its inescapable. He has bomb setups that are escapeable sure and theyre fine.

Why would you need 80% anyway when he already does the most damage in the game

 

[KTH]

P, Unless I'm missing something here. The reset with exbomb midbomb + 33 net/saw = 60 percent. That's guarantee. The 80 percent with 3 bombs are not guarantee. You can tech out of it all the time unless you're a dumbass poh: WTH are you talking about a guarantee 80 percent reset??? I didn't say we need 80 percent to compete. I say we need 60 percent.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

Do you even know how to play cyrax? If you did you could see why he doesnt need inescapable 60-80% resets, even without them hes one of the best in the game.

 

[KTH]

I placed top 5 in a 140 -170 man before. Yes , I 'd say i know how to. But let's not talk about me.

Maxter and trophy club. Do you know about them??? They have the same stances about the reset. I'm pretty sure they're the best cyrax players in the world right now. Are you saying they don't know how to play to either??? I meant if you got regulate by a cyrax in your scene, that doesn't mean cyrax is top tier. You just have to learn to play. p

Where's the 80 percent guarantee reset are we talking about ??? Please let be accurate and not spill nonsense

 

[GodsLonelyman]

A foxy grampa, please leave the Cyrax thread and go back to your Kung Lao thread so you can defend him with your delusions of him being a perfectly balanced char.

 

[PND_Mustard]

I placed top 5 in a 170 man before. Yes , I 'd say i know how to. But let's not talk about me.

Maxter and trophy club. Do you know about them??? They have the same stances about the reset. I'm pretty sure they're the best cyrax players in the world right now. Are you saying they don't know how to play to either??? I meant if you got regulate by a cyrax in your scene, that doesn't mean cyrax is top tier. You just have to learn to play. p

Where's the 80 percent guarantee reset are we talking about ??? Please let be accurate and not spill nonsense

jumpin 1, 21-net, 21exbomb, medium bomb, 21 short bomb, 2buzzsaw, reset, neutral jump 1, back2, 33 net, 33overhead kick, at LEAST 70%. from 1 bar.

 

[PND_Mustard]

A foxy grampa, please leave the Cyrax thread and go back to your Kung Lao thread so you can defend him with your delusions of him being a perfectly balanced char.

stay on topic, no need to fish for an argument here man.

 

[KTH]

I'm pretty sure you can tech out after 21. that's not a true combo I'll test you

edit: yah you can tech out

I assume mustard and foxy are from the same scenes. I'm not sure if you guys understand cyrax guarantee combos or don't know how to get out of it.

By the way, the reset after 33saw/net are not easy. I can count the numbers that can do it in tournament in one hand.

 

[PND_Mustard]

I'm pretty sure you can tech out after 21. that's not a true combo I'll test you

edit: yah you can tech out

you cant, unless you're telling me that 2,1 net doesnt work, which is something you learn works fine after using him for 5 minutes.

 

[KTH]

I'm talking about 2,1 short bomb. Check your notation again. It's the same theory as the 3 bombs 33short bomb combo.

How can you ask me if you can tech after 2,1 net?? That's just plain silly

That just prove to me you guys don't understand the mechanics of true cyrax reset. Yet you complain about it. Learn how to get out and fight against cyrax.

 

[PND_Mustard]

the thing is here, you're defending that the resets are perfectly balanced and fair, yet you dont even know the MAIN one people are using right now, and the one all these 'pro' cyrax players are using.

 

[PND_Ketchup]

I placed top 5 in a 140 -170 man before. Yes , I 'd say i know how to. But let's not talk about me.

Maxter and trophy club. Do you know about them??? They have the same stances about the reset. I'm pretty sure they're the best cyrax players in the world right now. Are you saying they don't know how to play to either??? I meant if you got regulate by a cyrax in your scene, that doesn't mean cyrax is top tier. You just have to learn to play. p

Where's the 80 percent guarantee reset are we talking about ??? Please let be accurate and not spill nonsense

you named two good cyrax players in america, are you even aware the game had a global release? i believe mustard is arguably THE best cyrax player you will see. he simply knows the ins and outs of cyrax enough to say that cyrax doesnt need exploited damage, he can win without it.

you cant say "because they play tournaments with him they know best" anyone that uses an exploit will always defend it no matter how lame it is. go look on the thread list, theyre all searching for new resets in preperation for this one being removed. so instead of getting better with cyrax theyre trying to just find another reset to bum off, am i the only person who thinks thats lame as hell?

 

[KTH]

All the pro 's using 60 percent reset , exbomb mid bomb 33 net/saw. I'm using the same combo. What pro would use 80 percent that can be teched on good players??? Fyi, they can wake up with certain characters for more combos. If you guys don't know how to get out of the 80 3 bombs, you deserve to lose.

 

[KTH]

You assume your bro is the best. That's the big statement right there. I watched all the cyrax vids. I evaluate and learn. I guarantee you he's not the best. I admit he's probably better than me. NOt maxter /trophyclub

I know it's hard not to defend your scenes. but you assume all the others cyrax players suck compare to your bro. That's just hard to digest when the only tournament your bro play is in europe. It's hard to convince people that your bro is the best when he doesn't even know which combos is guarantee or not. p

Out of curiousity, how many was in your last mk tournament??

 

[PND_Ketchup]

You assume your bro is the best. That's the big statement right there. I watched all the cyrax vids. I evaluate and learn. I guarantee you he's not the best. I admit he's probably better than me. NOt maxter /trophyclub

I know it's hard not to defend your scenes. but you assume all the others cyrax players suck compare to your bro. That's just hard to digest when the only tournament your bro play is in europe. It's hard to convince people that your bro is the best when he doesn't even know which combos is guarantee or not. p

Out of curiousity, how many was in your last mk tournament??

at no point at all did i say i think every other cyrax is trash, i was simply saying i personally find he uses cyrax to his fullest. and its quite obvious you seem to think the us has the only good players around, make sure you tune in to svb on friday as its a big european tournament.

all i ever see is cyrax players trying to net and not focusing on anything else. and the fact that you're essentially saying "you're from europe so you obviously suck" is pathetic. grow up and realise that its not just america that plays mortal kombat.

 

[PND_Mustard]

You assume your bro is the best. That's the big statement right there. I watched all the cyrax vids. I evaluate and learn. I guarantee you he's not the best. I admit he's probably better than me. NOt maxter /trophyclub

I know it's hard not to defend your scenes. but you assume all the others cyrax players suck compare to your bro. That's just hard to digest when the only tournament your bro play is in europe.

Out of curiousity, how many was in your last mk tournament??

you cant get out of the 70% which is the one people used at evo, you guarantee? well im curious to hear how you're gonna go about that. even if IM not the best, people abusing resets sure as hell arent.

 

[Trophy Club]

He actually just has his notation wrong, which is understandable since he doesn't use the reset.

The 70% is untechable, but is again, very breakable. It goes:
j1, 2,1 net, j1, 2,1, ex bomb, medium bomb, dash 1, dash 2, short bomb, backdash 2 saw blade, 2nd bomb resets, njp, b2, 3,3, net, 33 ragdoll~antiair.

I was mostly just trolling in my last post because people don't seem to really get what I'm saying, so I'll try to be as clear as possible.

Cyrax in his current form needs the reset to be a top tier character capable of winning major tournaments consistently against characters like kabal, KL, raiden and reptile. If cyrax did not have this reset he would still be a very good character, but without any buffs in return to help with his harder match-ups he will fall from top tier to simply solid. That is the distinction that should be made.

I feel a lot of people don't understand Cyrax's play-style, granted maybe I don't really know the proper way to play him, either. IMO rax trades frequent damage for high damage and this is what balances him out as a character by keeping people honest while attacking him. His mix-ups are pretty pathetic and his zoning is fairly non threatening if it wasn't for the high damage output if caught by net. If he was only pumping out 30% combos he wouldn't be a smart pick for a serious competitive player because your damage opportunities are too rare compared to others to be worth it because of how easy breakers are to come by.

To put it in perspective, I actually think the OG bomb trap was definitely too strong, unfortunately they double nerfed the command throw while taking it out which has made the command throw ridiculously easy to tech for anyone with ears hearing you tap 1,2,1,2 really quickly as well as being obvious after a jump in punch because Cyrax has 0 low options.

So again, because someone will inevitably not follow me. I PERSONALLY THINK if Cyrax loses his reset (which he obviously is), they should consider giving him a low string option, even if there is no combo option after it, re-reduce the tech window on his command throw, or make ex teleport consistently have some mix of qualities of armor/invincibility/safe.

 

[KTH]

That's your personal observation playing against your bro. I looked at all video and learned non biasly. IMHO, maxter is the only one that play cyrax almost to the fullest.

I did watch your bro vid too. I talked based on his vid and maxter/trophyclub vid. I think you're being so biased to your bro right now. Doesn't matter what I said. You'd come with a gun defending. Did you actually watch how maxter/trophyclub play before being so judgemental?

Lol you watch some new cyrax player do net and net over again. You assume all of us do that??? That's a bit harsh don't you think??? We don't talk much about strat here because we like to keep our stuffs. Don't assume maxter/trophyclub or even I only do net. There's so much about cyrax. Learn new stuffs everyday.

 

[PND_Mustard]

He actually just has his notation wrong, which is understandable since he doesn't use the reset.

The 70% is untechable, but is again, very breakable. It goes:
j1, 2,1 net, j1, 2,1, ex bomb, medium bomb, dash 1, dash 2, short bomb, backdash 2 saw blade, 2nd bomb resets, njp, b2, 3,3, net, 33 ragdoll~antiair.

I was mostly just trolling in my last post because people don't seem to really get what I'm saying, so I'll try to be as clear as possible.

Cyrax in his current form needs the reset to be a top tier character capable of winning major tournaments consistently against characters like kabal, KL, raiden and reptile. If cyrax did not have this reset he would still be a very good character, but without any buffs in return to help with his harder match-ups he will fall from top tier to simply solid. That is the distinction that should be made.

I feel a lot of people don't understand Cyrax's play-style, granted maybe I don't really know the proper way to play him, either. IMO rax trades frequent damage for high damage and this is what balances him out as a character by keeping people honest while attacking him. His mix-ups are pretty pathetic and his zoning is fairly non threatening if it wasn't for the high damage output if caught by net. If he was only pumping out 30% combos he wouldn't be a smart pick for a serious competitive player because your damage opportunities are too rare compared to others to be worth it because of how easy breakers are to come by.

To put it in perspective, I actually think the OG bomb trap was definitely too strong, unfortunately they double nerfed the command throw while taking it out which has made the command throw ridiculously easy to tech for anyone with ears hearing you tap 1,2,1,2 really quickly as well as being obvious after a jump in punch because Cyrax has 0 low options.

So again, because someone will inevitably not follow me. I PERSONALLY THINK if Cyrax loses his reset (which he obviously is), they should consider giving him a low string option, even if there is no combo option after it, re-reduce the tech window on his command throw, or make ex teleport consistently have some mix of qualities of armor/invincibility/safe.

i typed it out wrong sure, but i know how to do it, and i know its unescapable, you can breaker out of it sure, but you could also breaker out of kabals block infinite, or barakas corner infinite, cyrax will be perfectly fine without these resets, i keep repeating myself but he has enough to win, he has so many options off of his command throw which can be guaranteed from a punish if you have no meter or just 1 bar and want to save it, or a blocked jumpin punch, characters like kabal can be dealt with by throwing medium bombs and walking with them, raiden you can easily bait a teleport and low poke him out of his strings, and reptile you must stay mid screen with at all times, just out of range of the elbow, but not fullscreen where he can forceball you to death, no matchup is unwinable for cyrax

 

[KTH]

Trophy club just sum it up for me in clearer words. That's how I feel and pretty sure how maxter feels about cyrax. I agree 100 percent.

I know about troply club combo. I just don't want to do that since it's twice time as hard as 33 net. I don't want to risk it tournament play. I want 100 percent consistentcy. It's no where close to 80 percent as you guys exagerate to make a point

Hardest match up for cyrax is not kabal/reptile imho. I find mileena/kitana are hard. Not unbeatable but hard. It's hard to get the opportunity to damage them. When cyrax do, I hope for the love of god make it hurt.

 

[Trophy Club]

i typed it out wrong sure, but i know how to do it, and i know its unescapable, you can breaker out of it sure, but you could also breaker out of kabals block infinite, or barakas corner infinite, cyrax will be perfectly fine without these resets, i keep repeating myself but he has enough to win, he has so many options off of his command throw which can be guaranteed from a punish if you have no meter or just 1 bar and want to save it, or a blocked jumpin punch, characters like kabal can be dealt with by throwing medium bombs and walking with them, raiden you can easily bait a teleport and low poke him out of his strings, and reptile you must stay mid screen with at all times, just out of range of the elbow, but not fullscreen where he can forceball you to death, no matchup is unwinable for cyrax

I wasn't try to be insulting in anyway when I said you typed it out wrong, like I said I wouldn't assume you knew the proper notation since you don't do it. Kabal's block infinite was a different story imo because you had to take a hit to break it, and blocking doesn't build anywhere near as much meter as getting combo'd does so the odds of breaking it were much slimmer. This is similar to why I think original grab bomb trap was dumb, it was too easy to get it going, giving rax both frequent and high damage. In reference to baraka, again I think this is just different menatlity but I think they could have left that in, as it is Baraka is pretty pathetic and if you got cornered by Baraka and couldn't break out of it, I think you messed up somewhere in the match. But I digress.

I'm not really here to have a cyrax pissing contest, I truly appreciate that people think so highly of my gameplay and am grateful, but I know I'm definitely not the end all be all of Cyrax play, which is why I try to add many disclaimers to my posts.

I'm a bit curious to how you play Cyrax, I've only seen the matches from UC10, but I imagine those are a bit dated, are there more somewhere? Also what are the many options you feel he has after blocked jump in punches? I can really only think of 3 that would be worth considering, command throw, d+4 dash cancel, or a 1,1.

 

[PND_Mustard]

I wasn't try to be insulting in anyway when I said you typed it out wrong, like I said I wouldn't assume you knew the proper notation since you don't do it. Kabal's block infinite was a different story imo because you had to take a hit to break it, and blocking doesn't build anywhere near as much meter as getting combo'd does so the odds of breaking it were much slimmer. This is similar to why I think original grab bomb trap was dumb, it was too easy to get it going, giving rax both frequent and high damage. In reference to baraka, again I think this is just different menatlity but I think they could have left that in, as it is Baraka is pretty pathetic and if you got cornered by Baraka and couldn't break out of it, I think you messed up somewhere in the match. But I digress.

I'm not really here to have a cyrax pissing contest, I truly appreciate that people think so highly of my gameplay and am grateful, but I know I'm definitely not the end all be all of Cyrax play, which is why I try to add many disclaimers to my posts.

I'm a bit curious to how you play Cyrax, I've only seen the matches from UC10, but I imagine those are a bit dated, are there more somewhere? Also what are the many options you feel he has after blocked jump in punches? I can really only think of 3 that would be worth considering, command throw, d+4 dash cancel, or a 1,1.

i know you werent being insulting man i didnt see it that way, i could show you but the videos from uc10 are the only ones up right now and its quite old, i will be at super vs battle in the UK this weekend for the mk tourney there, however i hope it doesnt get cancelled due to the riots in england right now

 

[GodsLonelyman]

The resets are gonna be gone whether we like it or not, but let's be honest here, there are major problems Cyrax has, hence why I've had trouble believing he's in the same tier as reptile, raiden or Kung Lao, moreso now that the resets are going to be taken away. Here is my list of what I perceiveve to be issues that affect and cripple Cyrax to a certain extent.

First issue and a major one. His wakeup game is weak without meter. With meter, it's mediocre at best. Cyrax can be pressured quite easily on wakeup and in a corner. Most players that know what they're doing with Cyrax will agree that you're better off poking when being pressured. His teleport is extremely punishable and quite frankly, useless. It's not a get out of jail free card like some of the casts. (Teleport refering to cyborg version) on a side note, Please don't bring Sub Zero into this thread on wakeup, slide can be punished but remember, the opponent will be extremely cautions rushing down sub, he has ice clones. Approaching Sub on wakeup is quite a guessing game, the same can't be said for Cyrax.

second issue. Cyrax has no real "mixup". He has no low starters and his strings for keeping pressure and mixing up are not the greatest. Maintaining pressure with Cyrax is no easy task, you gotta get in and get your ass beat a little first. His 2,1,2 string can be interrupted, yes, interrupted by people with fast specials and quick jabs. Do a 2,1,2 on reptile and you'll see he can dash you before the 2 even connects. 1,1 ,1,1 ,1,1 cancel mixup on block can be jumped out of and interru[ted by the majority of the cast and so can his other normals. To maintain pressure with Cyrax you have to be on top of your game, make no mistakes, and really get deep inside your opponents head. You have to work magic basically because if the opponent knows the Cyrax matchup, he'll have an answer for everything. One of his tools that was supposed to be great for keeping opponents honest up close and really mixing it up was rendered useless. The command grab. The command grab can be teched by any one semi competent under the influence of alcohol. I'm ok with them limiting the stun animation on victims to escape the bomb trap but also nerfing the command grab tech window? Please, unjustifiable.

third issue. Despite what other people may think, Cyrax's zoning sucks. He doesn't cause chip damage from projectiles. All he can do is throw nets and place bombs which can be escaped easily if you know the matchup. Some characters with teleports can even punish a net on reaction. Noob comes to mind. I feel safe to say Cyrax can get outzoned easily by alot of the cast. If you attempt to play a defensive zoning Cyrax, you're screwed.

All in all I believe that to play Cyrax effectively you HAVE TO play risky and aggressively to be effective, you have to make extremely good reads. He's not as braindead as people think he is. When you play Cyrax like this and your opponent knows Cyrax in and out, you're in for a tough ride. You will eat damage like crazy but it's rewarding when that happens and you finally get in, why? You can land a hefty combo. This hefty combo can be broken with meter mind you, and if you do manage to get caught on this combo with little meter, rest assured you will have enough meter to break before the combo is over. The thing is, getting caught in that combo is not an easy task, especially if you know how to fight Cyrax. Sometimes the opponent knows Cyrax so well that the combo never even happens.

I've said it before, Give him a low starter. Make 3,3 hit low. Fix his wakeup options, maybe super armor on the teleport? As of now it does NOT have superarmor, I've been hit out of it plenty of times. Maybe tweak his normal teleport so it can actually be used to escape. fix his 2,1,2 string and make it safe and non interruptable. Fix his empty net and bomb glitch draining meter. With these minor tweaks they can leave the useless command grab for all I care

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

The resets are gonna be gone whether we like it or not, but let's be honest here, there are major problems Cyrax has, hence why I've had trouble believing he's in the same tier as reptile, raiden or Kung Lao, moreso now that the resets are going to be taken away. Here is my list of what I perceiveve to be issues that affect and cripple Cyrax to a certain extent.

First issue and a major one. His wakeup game is weak without meter. With meter, it's mediocre at best. Cyrax can be pressured quite easily on wakeup and in a corner. Most players that know what they're doing with Cyrax will agree that you're better off poking when being pressured. His teleport is extremely punishable and quite frankly, useless. It's not a get out of jail free card like some of the casts. (Teleport refering to cyborg version) on a side note, Please don't bring Sub Zero into this thread on wakeup, slide can be punished but remember, the opponent will be extremely cautions rushing down sub, he has ice clones. Approaching Sub on wakeup is quite a guessing game, the same can't be said for Cyrax.

second issue. Cyrax has no real "mixup". He has no low starters and his strings for keeping pressure and mixing up are not the greatest. Maintaining pressure with Cyrax is no easy task, you gotta get in and get your ass beat a little first. His 2,1,2 string can be interrupted, yes, interrupted by people with fast specials and quick jabs. Do a 2,1,2 on reptile and you'll see he can dash you before the 2 even connects. 1,1 ,1,1 ,1,1 cancel mixup on block can be jumped out of and interru[ted by the majority of the cast and so can his other normals. To maintain pressure with Cyrax you have to be on top of your game, make no mistakes, and really get deep inside your opponents head. You have to work magic basically because if the opponent knows the Cyrax matchup, he'll have an answer for everything. One of his tools that was supposed to be great for keeping opponents honest up close and really mixing it up was rendered useless. The command grab. The command grab can be teched by any one semi competent under the influence of alcohol. I'm ok with them limiting the stun animation on victims to escape the bomb trap but also nerfing the command grab tech window? Please, unjustifiable.

third issue. Despite what other people may think, Cyrax's zoning sucks. He doesn't cause chip damage from projectiles. All he can do is throw nets and place bombs which can be escaped easily if you know the matchup. Some characters with teleports can even punish a net on reaction. Noob comes to mind. I feel safe to say Cyrax can get outzoned easily by alot of the cast. If you attempt to play a defensive zoning Cyrax, you're screwed.

All in all I believe that to play Cyrax effectively you HAVE TO play risky and aggressively to be effective, you have to make extremely good reads. He's not as braindead as people think he is. When you play Cyrax like this and your opponent knows Cyrax in and out, you're in for a tough ride. You will eat damage like crazy but it's rewarding when that happens and you finally get in, why? You can land a hefty combo. This hefty combo can be broken with meter mind you, and if you do manage to get caught on this combo with little meter, rest assured you will have enough meter to break before the combo is over. The thing is, getting caught in that combo is not an easy task, especially if you know how to fight Cyrax. Sometimes the opponent knows Cyrax so well that the combo never even happens.

I've said it before, Give him a low starter. Make 3,3 hit low. Fix his wakeup options, maybe super armor on the teleport? As of now it does NOT have superarmor, I've been hit out of it plenty of times. Maybe tweak his normal teleport so it can actually be used to escape. fix his 2,1,2 string and make it safe and non interruptable. Fix his empty net and bomb glitch draining meter. With these minor tweaks they can leave the useless command grab for all I care

Right, so you want a low starter for the character that does the most damage in the game?
You also would like a good wakeup move, not every other character has good wakeups, at least yours works with meter, try with quan chi...
Super armour on the Ex teleport which already does damage by itself? No
His upclose pressure is fucking insane with the command grab, dunno what you've been doing with it. If thats not a real mixup i dont have a clue what is...
His empty net is so that you cant keep spamming it...
How can you say his zoning sucks? Him, Noob and CSZ are the only characters that can force you to move without wanting to.

How in any way is he risky? If you want risky go play scorpion, the most risky thing about cyrax is shooting out bombs i'd say and no good cyrax will let themselves be punished for it because they'd be too far away. You dont even have to take a risk to anti air since he has THE BEST anti air move in the game, forget KLs spin because he can be hit out of it, cyrax cant be hit out of the AA grab

Did you seriously complain that people can jump away from 1,1 1,1 1,1 ? -.-

 

[GodsLonelyman]

You dont even have to take a risk to anti air since he has THE BEST anti air move in the game, forget KLs spin because he can be hit out of it

I hope you're kidding here........ You can't even poke Kung Laos hat spin with mileenas D+4! It has a fullhitbox.

His empty net is so that you cant keep spamming it...

Are you serious? Why doesn't the same happen to Kabal when he shoots an empty groundsaw? It's not deliberate, It's a bug.

His upclose pressure is fucking insane with the command grab

Are you kidding me? His command grab can easily be teched.

How can you say his zoning sucks? Him, Noob and CSZ are the only characters that can force you to move without wanting to.

Okay maybe I overeacted here but his Zoning really isn;t what people make it out to be. Sure he makes you move but causes no real chip damage nor damage for that matter. If you explode on a bomb you simply suck, they can easily be avoided. And it's not like you're just gonna wait for him to start tossing shit, you're gonna fire back and the difference is, your projectiles will chip, unless you're sub zero.

You also would like a good wakeup move, not every other character has good wakeups, at least yours works with meter, try with quan chi...

This is a Cyrax thread, not Quan Chi.

Either way I dont care, I've swiched to Baraka and Noob Saibot.

P.S:

Right, so you want a low starter for the character that does the most damage in the game?

This right there is the problem with people. They have the mentality that if someone does high damage they are automatically s tier or whatever they want to call him. Look at Kung Lao, he does little damage but he has all the right tools, he doesn't need the damage. Just because a character does high damaging combos doesnt automatically make them invincible. If you truly know Cyrax in and out you won't find this as an issue, Cyrax suffers in lots of departments.