Cyrax - Frame Data: (Costume 1 + 2)

[Seapeople]

Somberness do you happen to know the hit advantage of ex buzzsaw when it doesnt pop the opponent into the air?

 

[Big Pampering]

how many frames is command grab? and how much is the window to break it?

 

[Krayzie]

how many frames is command grab? and how much is the window to break it?

1. 14
2. 5

 

[Konqrr]

1. 14
2. 5

I thought the escape window was upped to 10... was I wrong?

 

[Krayzie]

I thought the escape window was upped to 10... was I wrong?

I think you may be right. I probably have 5 embedded in my brain because Tom kept repeating it so much at the PDP Tournament last year... lol

 

[Konqrr]

I think you may be right. I probably have 5 embedded in my brain because Tom kept repeating it so much at the PDP Tournament last year... lol

At PDP, it was TWO frames. It is ten now.

 

[Axel_Redd]

is there anything unique about cyrax's umk3 costume still or has that all been patched?

and i believe it was said before but....its f2 really +11 on block? o-0

 

[NariTuba]

and i believe it was said before but....its f2 really +11 on block? o-0

It is but since cyrax doesnt have a good mid its better if your opponent is a large hitbox character. Check out the community guide for specifics. (In STRINGS\Uplcose Pressure)

 

[Axel_Redd]

It is but since cyrax doesnt have a good mid its better if your opponent is a large hitbox character. Check out the community guide for specifics. (In STRINGS\Uplcose Pressure)

i don't play cyrax im just curious, but what do you mean? does the f2 wiff on crouch or something?

 

[GGA HAN]

i don't play cyrax im just curious, but what do you mean? does the f2 wiff on crouch or something?

I think he means the follow-up to a blocked f2. It leaves you +11 frames, but the oppoent can try crouching and mashing d1, which unless you time a standing 1 perfectly, will lose. If you try a standing 2, you're using a 12 frame move on an 11 frame advantage, so you're taking a (slight) risk. And lets not forget the fact that standing 2, while it is a mid technically, tends to whiff on crouching enemies randomly.

 

[NariTuba]

I think he means the follow-up to a blocked f2. It leaves you +11 frames, but the oppoent can try crouching and mashing d1, which unless you time a standing 1 perfectly, will lose. If you try a standing 2, you're using a 12 frame move on an 11 frame advantage, so you're taking a (slight) risk. And lets not forget the fact that standing 2, while it is a mid technically, tends to whiff on crouching enemies randomly.

It all depends on whether they block the F2 crouching or standing; and F2 can be crouch blocked on reaction. Here's a copy/paste from what I wrote on the community guide (@Axel_Redd):

Spoiler

The only guaranteed setup for f2 is after a command grab or second net on the ground (not on a juggled opponent... i.e. jps,2,1~net, jps,2,1~net, f2).


If your opponent blocks the f2 standing you have a 4 frame window to jail theminto blocking a followup standing 1. This means you can 1,2 them and hit confirm into net or continue pressure.

You have the same 4 frame window to input 1,2 in order to guarantee a grounded net on hit. If you are late with the input, and they jump after blocking the f2, they will be airborne when you catch them with 1,2~net. In this case you can go for damage (1,2~net, b2, 1,2,1~AAt 27%) or a second net setup into another 50/50 with 1,2~net, 3,3~net.


If they block the f2 crouching a standing 1 followup will whiff if they let go of block or poke because it is a high hit.

A 2,1 followup to a f2 that was crouch blocked will make contact with your opponent while they are trying to poke out, depending on the size of their hitbox. It will always hit Sheeva and will always whiff on Kitana if they d1.

A standing 3 followup to a f2 that was crouch blocked will hit the entire cast if they do anything but block, because it is a special mid hit. The problem of course is that you cannot hit confirm it. If you are fighting a low hitbox character that will make your 2,1 followup whiff by poking (after crouch blocking f2), standing 3 is your best option.
3,3 doesnt work either because the second high 3 will whiff, even if the first hit, leaving you open for a full combo punish.
3~saw will give you an untechable knockdown or some chip, but will end your pressure; tho you remain safe versus most of the cast. Its still good against characters that have bad wakeups as it will give you oki pressure (i.e. Kitana). If you are fighting a character that can punish the saw, you can replace it with 3~ragdoll which will leave you safe at -2.
3~net is the high risk high reward option against low hitbox characters. Use it only if you know their habits and read they will try to poke out.

Once they are afraid to let go of block after blocking f2, you can follow it up with a command grab.
If they jump, a command grab followup to f2 will whiff and they escape.

Some people take the hit and dont block at all when they see the f2 coming so they can get out of the mixup, especially midscreen. There are a couple of counters to this once you see them doing it.

f2~saw: On block you remain safe (vs most of the cast), on hit it gives you a saw splat and a free bomb.
f2~ragdoll: On block you are at -2 but right next to them, on hit it gives you a free bomb or more damage with the throw.
f2~net: On block you can be full combo punished, on hit you can get a full combo yourself.

I plan to make a full thread about F2 in the near future including testing the whole roster to check which characters you can use the standing 2 followup on if they crouch blocked. Ive actually researched this a while ago and got in touch with Somberness for specifics. Tony-T has been on to this too. I have a feeling a standing 2 whiffs on most of the cast if they poke, but no way to be sure untill I fully test it.

Work has been really heavy for me lately so I havent been able to sit down to properly test, I think I will have the time in a couple of weeks tho. If anything above is not clear let me know HAN, Ill try to explain further.

 

[Axel_Redd]

wait...does f2 have different advantage if they crouch block instead of standing block it.

i need more experience in this matchup.

 

[NariTuba]

wait...does f2 have different advantage if they crouch block instead of standing block it.

i need more experience in this matchup.

No it doesnt. If they are crouching when you hit them with F2 and they d1 immediately after they are in a crouching animation during their startup. Your standing 2 reaches them before their d1 is active, but because its not a special mid it actually whiffs and they are able to complete their startup.

If they stand block the F2 you have 4 frame window to hit them with standing 1, this is inescapable:

F2 +11
Cyrax standing 1 is 9 frames
It takes the entire cast 1 frame to crouch
So you can hit them on frames 9, 10, 11, and 12

 

[Axel_Redd]

it sounds like a strong footsie...how do i fight against that with say...kitana or kung?

 

[NariTuba]

it sounds like a strong footsie...how do i fight against that with say...kitana or kung?

Its not a strong footsie tool at all because the startup is WAY too long (29 frames). The only way to use it is to set it up or gamble it will not be interrumpted when you have the momentum.

To fight against it with Kitana for example is easy: when you see the move coming you crouch block it on reaction. After that you can d1, d3 or even d4 and you will interrupt ALL his hit-confirmable folloups. The only thing Cyrax can do to prevent you from doing that is gamble it all on a 3~net. If he does that he can full combo you but if you block you can full combo him. Its a big gamble since 3~net cannot be hit confirmed. He can also stop you with 3~saw or 3~ragdoll, but thats inconsecuential damage, amd you're out of the mixup. If he tries to 3,3~net you while you d1, he will hit you with the first 3 but he will whiff the second 3 and the net will not come out. You can full combo whiff punish that with 2,1.

I havent tested with Lao, but Im willing to bet it works the same as with Kitana. If my hunch is right, most of the cast can poke Cyrax out of any hit confirmable folloup if they blocked the F2 crouching... except for Sheeva (tested) Kenshi, Liu Kang maybe, the largest hitboxes in the roster. Also bear in mind that its not about how big their hitbox is while crouching but how big their hitbox is during the startup frames of their poke. Because of this Kenshi might be able to d3 but not d1 for example. Id have to test it.

 

[Axel_Redd]

hmm, i just thought f2 might be useful as a footsie because it makes him back up, like it might work if someone tried to poke you? i dunno lol. when you have the time i'd love to see how the cyrax setup's work. As an Ex Cyrax player and someone who also has a beef with the character in general i'd really like to know

 

[NariTuba]

Not much to it really, the startup is so long you can only guarantee it with a net or a command grab. After that you can try to surprise them with a jps,F2 or djk,f2 for example... but both can be poked out of and also probably jumped out of. If a Kitana player becomes really good at this aspect of the matchup I bet they could even d1 any non guaranteed F2 attempt on reaction, if not straight up 2,1 it.

 

[Axel_Redd]

Not much to it really, the startup is so long you can only guarantee it with a net or a command grab. After that you can try to surprise them with a jps,F2 or djk,f2 for example... but both can be poked out of and also probably jumped out of. If a Kitana player becomes really good at this aspect of the matchup I bet they could even d1 any non guaranteed F2 attempt on reaction, if not straight up 2,1 it.

whats jps?

 

[NariTuba]

whats jps?

jps = Jump Punch Starter = jip = Jump in Punch

 

[Axel_Redd]

ah, ok, im used to jip

 

[Big Pampering]

is cyrax able to punish d1 on block with standing 3? also what is cyblax's frame data on the net, the bomb and the teleport?

 

[NariTuba]

is cyrax able to punish d1 on block with standing 3? also what is cyblax's frame data on the net, the bomb and the teleport?

yes but only 3 into a special. you cant use 33 cause itll whiff. For frame data check the frame data page or the community guide (both stickys on the cyrax forums)

 

[Wigy]

Not sure if im reading the chart wrong but by my understand ragdoll has same adv on hit for both costumes yet i cant follow up 121 ragdoll with d3 ragdoll on blax, tried for like 10 minutes straight on practice and cant get it. I do that online with rax so i duno why i wouldnt be able to get it.

 

[roosTakk]

Not sure if im reading the chart wrong but by my understand ragdoll has same adv on hit for both costumes yet i cant follow up 121 ragdoll with d3 ragdoll on blax, tried for like 10 minutes straight on practice and cant get it. I do that online with rax so i duno why i wouldnt be able to get it.

It doesnt have advantage on hit...it's not a frame trap...you can do it online because its only -2 frames and people aren't poking out quickly enough..cuz its online

 

[1man3letters]

Somberness would it be at all possible to get a picture illustrating all the frames of f2(first hit)?
im interested in comparing the frames of when he's leaning back to the ones when he lunges forward.