What's new

Tech - Cyber Sub-Zero Cyber-Sub NERFS boys

DDutchguy

Raiden enthusiast
I'm taking my new girlfriend F13~Iceball to dinner tonight, any ideas as to what kind of restaurant she'd like?
 

Vigilante24

Beware my power, Red Lantern's Light
When I get the drive to play again I'll be seeing how well CSZ works in the wild. Thankfully my gameplan hasn't changed.
With nerfs to everyone, im hoping it makes him able to hang with the cast now lol. I won'tbe able to try it until thursday. Im on a business trip in Abilene right now.

I'm taking my new girlfriend F13~Iceball to dinner tonight, any ideas as to what kind of restaurant she'd like?
Any place that serves Tarkatan with sides of acid or drones. Make sure there are lots of fans there and be sure to take your vitamin B12.
 

LastKarma

Under The Red Hood
Heres the thing guys. F13 ice ball is great. TY NRS. But we did need a bit more besides that, im not saying we need a mid because a lot of characters lack a good mid. Mabey a tiny bit more damage would have helped because we cant keep up with certain characters. BUT now with armored launchers gone, we really dont have to worry about gaps anymore. 1112 can be backdashed but is rarely punished midscreen. And i am abusing f12 because i dont have to worry about being launched anymore. Also stamina doesnt effect us much, IA short dive kicks and long dive kick over projectiles gets us in. We have to work with what we have.
 

DDutchguy

Raiden enthusiast
Heres the thing guys. F13 ice ball is great. TY NRS. But we did need a bit more besides that, im not saying we need a mid because a lot of characters lack a good mid. Mabey a tiny bit more damage would have helped because we cant keep up with certain characters. BUT now with armored launchers gone, we really dont have to worry about gaps anymore. 1112 can be backdashed but is rarely punished midscreen. And i am abusing f12 because i dont have to worry about being launched anymore. Also stamina doesnt effect us much, IA short dive kicks and long dive kick over projectiles gets us in. We have to work with what we have.
You listed a lot of good things yet you said 'we have to work with what we have'. The universal changes were Cyber Sub's biggest buffs. The fact that nearly all characters don't have launching armor anymore indeed means we don't have to worry about gaps much.

However, it also means that the difference in damage between CSZ and the rest of the cast has been closed quite a bit. A lot of characters got a good chunk of their damage from their launching armor, where at any point in the match they could throw out an armored move and potentially get high 30s for damage while Cyber Sub just had to deal with a 12% slide. Now meterless damage is more important and Cyber Sub's meterless damage isn't half bad really.
 

LastKarma

Under The Red Hood
You listed a lot of good things yet you said 'we have to work with what we have'. The universal changes were Cyber Sub's biggest buffs. The fact that nearly all characters don't have launching armor anymore indeed means we don't have to worry about gaps much.

However, it also means that the difference in damage between CSZ and the rest of the cast has been closed quite a bit. A lot of characters got a good chunk of their damage from their launching armor, where at any point in the match they could throw out an armored move and potentially get high 30s for damage while Cyber Sub just had to deal with a 12% slide. Now meterless damage is more important and Cyber Sub's meterless damage isn't half bad really.
Its ok, still pretty low. And i mentioned the gaps because while we cant really get reversaled. characters like predator for example. or mileena, can hit confirm into there moves AND THEN launch you. we still get low damage compared to most. But i see your point, we never launched with armor in the fist place, its an even playing field now.
 

Vigilante24

Beware my power, Red Lantern's Light
CSZ damage is fine tbh (at least with the way I play him). He is more than capable of keeping up with the cast. Other than that I agree with everything Karma said.

I use to abuse F12 as a far range +2 mid (intentionally whiffing F1) and now with armor nerfs, im about to abuse it even more!
 

LastKarma

Under The Red Hood
CSZ damage is fine tbh (at least with the way I play him). He is more than capable of keeping up with the cast. Other than that I agree with everything Karma said.

I use to abuse F12 as a far range +2 mid (intentionally whiffing F1) and now with armor nerfs, im about to abuse it even more!
yea man, i abused f12 way more than i should have but not many people did anything about it. plus 1 on block doesnt guaruntee much but it still helps to poke after words. ABUSE it now. we dont have to worry anymore.
 
Its ok, still pretty low. And i mentioned the gaps because while we cant really get reversaled. characters like predator for example. or mileena, can hit confirm into there moves AND THEN launch you. we still get low damage compared to most. But i see your point, we never launched with armor in the fist place, its an even playing field now.
Drones play a major role now more than ever to keep up with damage especially with our corner game. 40-42% meterless into another set up is good imo. We may now have to watch for meter on our opponent's since they have 2 hits of armor. Id say wed even out to b+ or a tier
 

DDutchguy

Raiden enthusiast
Drones play a major role now more than ever to keep up with damage especially with our corner game. 40-42% meterless into another set up is good imo. We may now have to watch for meter on our opponent's since they have 2 hits of armor. Id say wed even out to b+ or a tier
40-42% meterless? Woah. How many drones and what combo?
 

Vigilante24

Beware my power, Red Lantern's Light
Yea in order to get that +40% in the corner, you'd have to train your opponent to delay wakeup or hope their wakeup doesnt come out and just sit there. :(
 
Kind of if you get do a f2 bomb setup and you've conditioned them not to jump out from using 21 (meaty/not) and of course they can't have meter (since now most have 2 hits of armor) what you'll do is have 1 drone and :

F2 DE bomb...b1 slide njp jik f43 cdk 21 111 slide
 

Jeffrey Wolf

YouTube: Jeffrey B Wolf
Yeah, Cyber Sub is definitely playable now, though he also was before. It's just now, as people have said, the universal nerfs really help him out. I think the more you play him in the new meta, the happier you'll be.
 
Kind of if you get do a f2 bomb setup and you've conditioned them not to jump out from using 21 (meaty/not) and of course they can't have meter (since now most have 2 hits of armor) what you'll do is have 1 drone and :

F2 DE bomb...b1 slide njp jik f43 cdk 21 111 slide
I mean against a high level player u may not get it but the damage is there, like everything though with csz its based off reads, having the resource available (the drone), and capitalizing on opponent mistakes
 

just_2swift

God Fist Lao
You know what would have been a cool buff? If he has max drones (3) the dive kick penalty on his combos are negated. But he has to have 3 drones active. @colt
 

MadeOfMetal

Kenshi Srubtastic,Cyrax, Special Forces Mains
It's not that 50%+ of this site are dicks, it's legit because people just plain don't like you. No offense, but every single one of your posts lacks any sense of grammar, punctuation, or logic within a giant wall of text few people have the inclination to read after having been exposed to your posts in the past.

He didn't really tell you what to do. He was telling you how redundant and misplaced your giant wall of yellow text was. This is the CSZ forum, and you come on here making exaggerated claims and spend most of your time talking about characters not relevant to the thread or discussion at hand. So, in context, your "go suck a dick" comment was far more out of line than his post was.

I've tried really hard to put up with your posts and even give you the benefit of the doubt at times (to my dismay). Regardless, though, your behavior in this thread has crossed a line most don't want to put up with. Expect a lot more ignores.

On topic: CSZ didn't get a lot of the things he needed, but f13 being able to combo now is something at least. I remember that being the nerf most bitched about after the last patch, but in all honesty, it looks like they really don't care about Tri-borg. Or at the very least, they're having a really hard time balancing a character with such a (comparatively) diverse variation system. :(
I disagree. I talk with many on here and they seem to think others just hate me unwarranted. and Grammer, Punctuation has nothing to do with it. if people are really so anal that they can't stand it that I misspell a certain word even though they clearly understand what I said. that is ther problem and is more so close to a condition or disorder, like OCD. and if they hate bright colors and it bugs them I'm sorry, but I do it for clarity for me. and I like it, I have dark theme on so it doesn't bother my eyes, if it bothers them so much then they can change to one that better suits there eys problems.

why am I eve arguing with you. for real. none of the things you said at even close to true. I said suck a dick to him cuz he was being a duchbag. and being disrespectful to my face and calling me out being rude is not goona make me want to hug him. it was warranted.

Some times people talk about another subject when they use the scenario in context with the situation. example being me talking about Cyrax in a thread about CSZ, it was in relation to the difference of CSZ's changes. which is perfectly in context and does not derail it at all.

tell me how would you feel if I said your posts and opinion does not matter. and everything you say is wortheless and I would like you to leave the forum that you enjoy?
I don't think you would be very happy about it now would you? in fact I think you never thought about it from my point of view did you, can you tell how the shoe does not fit?

I do what everyone else on here does, Express my opinion from my point of view, there is nothing wrong with what I'm doing, in fact I'm a very nice guy and very enjoyable to be around. sorry if you can not understand that.


On a separate note, I feel CSZ did very well in this patch, and is very strong now. great character with many cool tools. I'm excited to play him again anew.
 

Icefyre

Shadows
I disagree. I talk with many on here and they seem to think others just hate me unwarranted. and Grammer, Punctuation has nothing to do with it.
Do you know what 50% is? Do I have to explain percentages and what they imply to you?

if people are really so anal that they can't stand it that I misspell a certain word even though they clearly understand what I said. that is ther problem and is more so close to a condition or disorder, like OCD.
A certain word? Lol? It's not that people dislike you for misspelling words, wasn't really implying that. Just saying it doesn't help your cause when your posts are so incredibly thick with errors that it's headache inducing to read. Sorry, some people only want to read posts they don't have to sit there and translate. So it really has nothing to do at all with OCD or disorders.

and if they hate bright colors and it bugs them I'm sorry, but I do it for clarity for me. and I like it, I have dark theme on so it doesn't bother my eyes, if it bothers them so much then they can change to one that better suits there eys problems.
I don't think anybody actually complained about the yellow, not sure where this is coming from. It's just identifiable. Go back and look, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I see "yellow" used as an adjective, not an insult.

why am I eve arguing with you. for real. none of the things you said at even close to true. I said suck a dick to him cuz he was being a duchbag. and being disrespectful to my face and calling me out being rude is not goona make me want to hug him. it was warranted.
You're right, him saying "gtfo" was a little rude. Besides that? I'm not convinced you even read his post, especially since you didn't seem to respond to any of it except those four letters. Nothing he said was inaccurate. This is a CSZ thread created specifically for CSZ's nerfs. That's the reason he named it CYBER-SUB NERF BOYS. He probably took an issue with you post's dedication to Cyrax because it just wasn't relevant to the topic. You also started by implying that he shouldn't be mad, Cyrax players should. And then, oddly enough, you proceeded to back it up with theoreticals about Cyrax changes you admit to knowing nothing about and that have nothing to do, again, with the thread topic. You compared them just to do it, there was no culminating point to the post other than "we won't know until the patch hits." Which leaves everybody wondering why you just theorycrafted Cyrax in a CSZ thread.

Some times people talk about another subject when they use the scenario in context with the situation. example being me talking about Cyrax in a thread about CSZ, it was in relation to the difference of CSZ's changes. which is perfectly in context and does not derail it at all.

tell me how would you feel if I said your posts and opinion does not matter. and everything you say is wortheless and I would like you to leave the forum that you enjoy?
I don't think you would be very happy about it now would you? in fact I think you never thought about it from my point of view did you, can you tell how the shoe does not fit?
He wanted you out of the thread, not the forum. He has you on ignore for a reason, that's good enough from his perspective, I would think. This thread, on the other hand, is a different matter. I'm sorry you feel I haven't thought about this from your point of view, but I have. And I'm still saying you blew up on the guy for four letters and some sarcasm.

... in fact I'm a very nice guy and very enjoyable to be around. sorry if you can not understand that.
I believe you, you probably are a really nice guy. Whether or not you're enjoyable to be around is entirely subjective, but regardless I'll believe you there too. If we met in real life and played MKX and just talked shit just to do it, we'd probably have fun. I'm sorry you feel insulted. But you're the only one posting things in this thread like Cyrax combos, and tagging Cyrax players to look at them...in this thread. And then all kinds of other characters, too. I mean, if you were discussing their MU's with CSZ, that's one thing.

Let me put it to you this way: everything you posted in this entire thread could have been used to create your very own thread with those themes. Because about 2% is related to CSZ. Your posts are misplaced.

Anyway... @Harlequin969 yeah I agree, they feel like 4 individuals despite the universal strings.

And @Vigilante24 I'd have to agree with that too. CSZ doesn't feel like the worst character in the game right now, he does feel viable. Not great, but usable. That being said, I don't really know who I'd put at the bottom of any supposed tier list...I actually think NRS did a pretty good job with the patch overall.

I'm going to remain salty about a couple things, just because I can be lol, but I don't really think his changes compared to the entire patch can be considered a nerf. At least so far, anyway. @THTB put it the best, he's alright now.
 

FrankOceansWaifu

Watch this set up.
I disagree. I talk with many on here and they seem to think others just hate me unwarranted. and Grammer, Punctuation has nothing to do with it. if people are really so anal that they can't stand it that I misspell a certain word even though they clearly understand what I said. that is ther problem and is more so close to a condition or disorder, like OCD. and if they hate bright colors and it bugs them I'm sorry, but I do it for clarity for me. and I like it, I have dark theme on so it doesn't bother my eyes, if it bothers them so much then they can change to one that better suits there eys problems.

why am I eve arguing with you. for real. none of the things you said at even close to true. I said suck a dick to him cuz he was being a duchbag. and being disrespectful to my face and calling me out being rude is not goona make me want to hug him. it was warranted.

Some times people talk about another subject when they use the scenario in context with the situation. example being me talking about Cyrax in a thread about CSZ, it was in relation to the difference of CSZ's changes. which is perfectly in context and does not derail it at all.

tell me how would you feel if I said your posts and opinion does not matter. and everything you say is wortheless and I would like you to leave the forum that you enjoy?
I don't think you would be very happy about it now would you? in fact I think you never thought about it from my point of view did you, can you tell how the shoe does not fit?

I do what everyone else on here does, Express my opinion from my point of view, there is nothing wrong with what I'm doing, in fact I'm a very nice guy and very enjoyable to be around. sorry if you can not understand that.


On a separate note, I feel CSZ did very well in this patch, and is very strong now. great character with many cool tools. I'm excited to play him again anew.
You're better off just hitting ignore on them. Lot of people seem to forget that a lot of this stuff is subjective so they tend to be hostile whenever they see something wrong in their eyes. Basically just relax I don't think you did anything wrong and honestly there's way worse on this site.
 

Harlequin969

Always press buttons
Just played a Kotal today and the first few matches were rocky because I had to remember how to press buttons but after my groove came back holy hell was it fun. Bombs, iceballs and spacing. F13 connecting is a godsend. I've been using f12 and then b2 to blow up counter pokes as well. CSZ is great for slowing down that match and forcing your opponent to play your game for awhile.

You build a nice chunk of meter and mb icebeam is great for blowing up runs/jump ins from a decent distance. My only issue is anti airing. I still need a lot of practice with s4 as an anti air.
 

Blewdew

PSN: MaxKayX3
Just played a Kotal today and the first few matches were rocky because I had to remember how to press buttons but after my groove came back holy hell was it fun. Bombs, iceballs and spacing. F13 connecting is a godsend. I've been using f12 and then b2 to blow up counter pokes as well. CSZ is great for slowing down that match and forcing your opponent to play your game for awhile.

You build a nice chunk of meter and mb icebeam is great for blowing up runs/jump ins from a decent distance. My only issue is anti airing. I still need a lot of practice with s4 as an anti air.
S1 is also a very good anti air :) I usually use it more than s4 tbh
 

Wetdoba

All too easy...
I was trash using anti airs before the patch so I'm still trash at it now tbh lol
I hit more anti air D2s last night than with CSZ than I have in the last year with FT. This character is my shit right now. Not to mention F2 as an anti air when they try to jump a bomb from fullscreen