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Tech - Cyber Sub-Zero Cyber-Sub NERFS boys

God Confirm

We're all from Earthrealm. If not, cool pic brah.
F13 fix plus my ability to still do 40%meterless in the corner means I will be playing CSZ again along side Quan. I dont mind the low damage midscreen since it is kind of a trade off for the insane corner carry.

I still wish EX Slide had a drone enhance damage buff version though.
40% meterless? niiice whats the inputs
 

Vigilante24

Beware my power, Red Lantern's Light
40% meterless? niiice whats the inputs
It involves a drone enhance bomb and ending in 114 slide going for full damage instead of the F2 bomb setup (I play for damage and oki instead of bomb setups. Most damage I have is 45% off s4 punish on armor.

Generally the combo is your same bomb setup bnbs but insert a b2 before doing F43 cdk F43 cdk etc.

My most damaging standing punish in the corner is 38% meterless.
 

God Confirm

We're all from Earthrealm. If not, cool pic brah.
It involves a drone enhance bomb and ending in 114 slide going for full damage instead of the F2 bomb setup (I play for damage and oki instead of bomb setups. Most damage I have is 45% off s4 punish on armor.

Generally the combo is your same bomb setup bnbs but insert a b2 before doing F43 cdk F43 cdk etc.

My most damaging standing punish in the corner is 38% meterless.
you might have to share me ur bnb's brother
 

MadeOfMetal

Kenshi Srubtastic,Cyrax, Special Forces Mains
Here's a list of the changes affecting CSZ in this patch.



  • B1 now has 22 startup frames (nerfed from 18) ---- [no longer a true 50/50]
  • hit cancel advantage buffed by 4 more frames ---- [seems kinda irrelevant with above changes tho]
  • F13 is now -8 on block (nerfed from -4) ----- [no longer a practical stagger string]
  • +8 on hit (nerfed from +12)
  • whiff recovery nerfed by adding 4 additional frames
  • hit cancel advantage buffed by 4 frames ---- [allows for for F13 Iceball meterless links]
  • B3 now has 16 frames startup (nerfed from 15)
  • is -6 on block (buff from -8) ---- [absolutely irrelevant, there is no reason to ever raw B3]
  • Slide And Strike now has 2 hits of armor ---- [I believe this is CSZ's Slide]





so all in all his extra 4 frames of hit advantage might allow him to combo meterlessly off B1 (?) but this is only relevant midscreen, and the nerfed the practicality of B1 in the first place kinda more than counteracts that...

B3 is slightly slower, but only by a frame so not really a critical nerf, its buffed on block but as mentioned this will never be relevant.

His armored Slide has 2 hits but thats mostly a universal update, but yeah he still has decent armor with his slide ofc


The only real places he sees a buff is F13 meterless opener, however the trade off is the frames on it kinda suck now.





Basically lost his 50/50 tho so :DOGE didnt get any of the real changes he needed either

so yeah hes still the worst character in the game by a wide margin (edit: SECOND WORST BOYS, just realised what no 50/50 + double armor everywhere means for Cyrax, we are no longer bottom one!)


this isn't a salt thread i honestly wasn't expecting any different

proof:

I think your jumping the gun. Cyrax mains should be mad, honestly: That F13 hit advantage nerf may verywell mean Net will not connect because it starts up slower than freeze and was nerfed from 12 to 8 hit advantage. that could either make it not connect at all or MAx range it will not work or mid range. who knows till we play the game.

What Cyrax may have lost vs CSZ:

Armor Break setups
HTB's
Possibly F13 to connect with net?
Possibly Air Grab EX
Possibly EX buzzsaw?


LAst patch Cyrax lost like 30+ and had that much nerfs when CSZ had 11. Cyrax got hit hard last patch. I think CSZ will be great after patch. but thats my opinion. i am truly afraid for Cyrax, since the core of the fighter was Setups, he had Garbage Neutral, and Sucked with Zoning. but maybe with The nerfs to Rushdown (Stamins nerf and no EX Launchers) he might be better at keeping out. but he lost one major thing that Cyrax has had in every game, he used to do Unblockable Setups, in this game it was Weaker and was HTB's because he sucked at everything else that was his way of making up for shitty damage and long combos that didnt hurt, you could do 20% into a smal reset to extend damage for a bar.

but now with Double Armor He lost all HTB's and Setups, then they Removed his Launchers like AA Grab i think. and OMG ima fraid he lost Starters into Net because of that universla nerf. remeber Cyrax has a slow startup Net. its different form Sektor and Smoke and CSZ its way slower i think smokes is slower by far but you get what i mean. he could be fucked, with him not able to NET after Bombs how will he start Combos?

Insteads of me freaking out about this lets wait for the patch to release and i said to myself i will practice for a month and see where he is at in the cast and Matchup wise, but it might take me longer.

the good thing about this is they said they will continue support and will PAtch down the raod.

but what i should put out there. is there is no fucking way we can say either CSZ or Cyrax is Garbage at all untill we have at least some time to practice the new meta and matchups. and lets at least wait till we see the Game and play it before righting off a character as Bottom tier in a new m,eta with armored launchers gone, Cancel PRessure nerfed, Stamina Nerfed, AA's Buffed, Zoning buffed, Double Armor?

@Kindred what do you think so far. you have an excelent CSZ sop i valu your opinion?
 

MadeOfMetal

Kenshi Srubtastic,Cyrax, Special Forces Mains
i have you on ignore like most the rest of this site does, so I only knew you posted because jeffrey's comment was really out of place so i clicked the "show ignore"

but just fyi you wrote that massive wall of yellow text for absolutely nothing, because if you had bothered to read before going into your rant you would have seen that I've already said twice in this thread (one of the times being in the original post) that I feel Cyrax is hit even harder by these changes, and is now the worst character in the game.

This however, is a CSZ thread, in the CSZ forum, for discussing CSZ changes :)

gtfo
I gotta say this because i think you deserved it., i normally brush you and your friends off. ill have you know i have alot of thread Articled and a good percentage of my posts are liked. just because you and pig dont like me because you are dicks and treat other like shit does not mean shit . not everyone ignors my shit obviously. and if you do what ev. but you have zero power to tell me what to do, get that striaght ill comment on what i want when i want, before you tell me what to do and act disrespectful go suck a dick.
 

MadeOfMetal

Kenshi Srubtastic,Cyrax, Special Forces Mains
I think CSZ will do fine in this new meta. the universal changes might hurt CSZ overall but with the Stamina nerf, and his new Double armor, i think he will be great, now he will have Starters besides B2 and B3 that wont be punished. he was truly a threat in the air and setup wise, and had a very scary Corner game. but i think he will be ok. we will just have to wait and see. I will be adding tech to CSZ forum and watching closly for the great tech to come from this community.
 

21122

Premium
Premium Supporter
smoke no longer has a vortex so he lost out too. There's an argument to be made for catching ppl off guard occasionally with B1 in the neutral when there is so many things that could come, although thats still not very practical. But you will never catch a decent player with B1 after the vortex reset telegraphs the incoming 50/50. Smoke's go for knockdown now, and Boba Busta picks up a new character :)
You can still get a pseudo 50/50 with smoke after the B1 nerf.

F21 ~ fade (+9-10) into B1/B3. Your opponent cant see through the smoke and the "pseudo" 50/50 comes from the fact you can make your opponent respect 111 after F21 ~ fade on hit as its guaranteed.

YOU GUYS GOT ALL HYPED FOR THAT ONE MINOR CSZ BUFF. I TOLD YOU ALL YOU WERE OVERREACTING AND THAT IF THAT WAS THE ONLY CHANGE HE WILL BE CRAP STILL :DOGE
 

MadeOfMetal

Kenshi Srubtastic,Cyrax, Special Forces Mains
You can still get a pseudo 50/50 with smoke after the B1 nerf.

F21 ~ fade (+9-10) into B1/B3. Your opponent cant see through the smoke and the "pseudo" 50/50 comes from the fact you can make your opponent respect 111 after F21 ~ fade on hit as its guaranteed.

YOU GUYS GOT ALL HYPED FOR THAT ONE MINOR CSZ BUFF. I TOLD YOU ALL YOU WERE OVERREACTING AND THAT IF THAT WAS THE ONLY CHANGE HE WILL BE CRAP STILL :DOGE
hell i told everyone, that moved for Armored launchers being removed?that it would hurt not only the character they hated, but all characters including there own. now they gotta choke on what they created. its there own damn fault.

what i dont get is its ok for a character to have resgtands and combo extenders, but Armored launchers are gone? what about characters that only have Armored launcher for there combo starters? some characters have Restand, some have Somke ice (combo extenders) and some have Launching Armor. btu i don't think its fair to short a few and let the rest ride?
 

MadeOfMetal

Kenshi Srubtastic,Cyrax, Special Forces Mains
@MadeOfMetal f13 net still works
yeah thats i found out, im hella mad, Cyrax lost all his Armor break setups and True HTB setups, that where 100% Fair and Honest, the ones you could Tech roll to backdash and had like 30Frames to do so!

because of this new Double hitting armor and tripple hitting armor he has no HTB or setup game anymore, they removed all setups for Cyrax. its fucking bullshit.

thats all that was cool about him, he has Shitty as fuck Mids, and Garbage Neutral, and thats what made him wiother it. his Zoning was On the lower end considering they mad his Net have no pushback on 3-29 and his bombs had more than 70frames of recovery.
and KEnshi mains complained about 40frasmes on TF. imagine that you have more than twice the time to run up trhrough and past all bombs he does, and can garanteed full combo punish him with any character and from midscreen you can punish his Net on block at least you can Make him guess 50/50 and he sucks up close so.

yep here it is i did alot more but just to shoe:

Thats it i had it!

@scarsunseen
guess what i tested every move Cyrax had, and i did normal 2 bomb setups into B3D4 off NJP lay and It gets broke now 2 hiots of armor ruines his setplay.
Example:
F13 xx Net, RC, DF2, F43, DF2, F43, DF2, 111 xx DD2, NJP, Step back DB3, DD3, B3D4/111/F21/B1/B1-2+4/F34
111 xx Net, RC, DF2, F43, DF2, F43, DF2, 111 xx DD2, NJP, Step back DB3, DD3, B3D4/111/F21/B1/B1-2+4
F21 xx Net, RC, DF2, F43, DF2, F43, DF2, 111 xx DD2, NJP, Step back DB3, DD3, B3D4/111/F21/B1/B1-2+4
B1 xx Net, RC, DF2, F43, DF2, F43, DF2, 111 xx DD2, NJP, Step back DB3, DD3, B3D4/111/F21/B1/B1-2+4
F13 xx Net, RC, DF2, F43, DF2, F43, DF2, 111 xx DD2, NJP, Step back EX DB3, B3D4/F21/111/B1/B1-2+4
111 xx Net, RC, DF2, F43, DF2, F43, DF2, 111 xx DD2, NJP, Step back EX DB3, B3D4/F21/111/B1/B1-2+4
F21 xx Net, RC, DF2, F43, DF2, F43, DF2, 111 xx DD2, NJP, Step back EX DB3, B3D4/F21/111/B1/B1-2+4
B3 xx Net, RC, DF2, F43, DF2, F43, DF2, 111 xx DD2, NJP, Step back EX DB3, B3D4/F21/111/B1/B1-2+4
B1 xx Net, RC, DF2, F43, DF2, F43, DF2, 111 xx DD2, NJP, Step back EX DB3, B3D4/F21/111/B1/B1-2+4
NJP, 4, EX DB3 xx 111/F21/F13/F131/B1/B3/B1-2+4


anyway i alter the combo anything ending in EX DB3 into F21 or 111 or anything does not break Armor!

Some are To fast to stop, Some are to Low to hit, some are out of reach. different problems asame result over and over.

All of these are ruined after 10-4-2016
the double and Tripple hitting armor Stuffs all of them and goes through!
no more Armor Break HTB's
F21 does not fix the problem, they did not Fix his Mid on it, and it still wiffs Low PRofiling moves. Sub zero,Reptile, Goro, Quan, Scorpion, Kung LAo, and many others goe through it.
He has no HTB Armor break anymore.
I can not believe a fair character like Cyrax got this treatment!
All his shit was 100% escapable and its not like it was even remotely hard to escape it my 6 year old Nephew did it every time, Tech roll into backdash or armor. this is fucking Gross.
well we have standing 4 xx Low Bomb xx B3D4 and they can armor uus but we definitely lost EX bomb into anything F21/111/B3D4/F131/F13 all Gone!
im calling it he dropped tiers from this. im gonna lab for an aditional month. when he got the shaft last patch on 3-29 i stuck with him, but lol they didnt even fix MIDS. i think im done if i find no Armor break and true worthwile HTB setup that doesnt require me to have opponet choose 2 options out of 7. im not liking these ods!
 

MadeOfMetal

Kenshi Srubtastic,Cyrax, Special Forces Mains
@MadeOfMetal f13 net still works
And for CSZ Mains i am very Glad for you guys, you guys deserved this and needed that buff. CSZ was really good pre patchj, but now he has the starters he deserved to have! and im glad.

i am very dissapointed in the Cyrax Treatment they gave LK-4D4 its BS and unjust. im gonna keep labbing him, but im picking other characters up. i went through to much with Cyrax, and for them to do this is my last straw. im not gonna use a character with Shitter than Kenshi Zoning, Garbage Neutral, Failing Mids that wiff constantly to Low Profiling moves. im just good, and ill pick a character that has Good or decent Zoning, Decent Footsie, Decent Space Control, and Decent Mixups. and probably has a bit of dirt on top as Icing.
will be using Kenshi though, Yeah for Balanced, MOS raiden which is beast by the way, PRedator is pretty damn good now, and Sub zero is great ina ll Variaitons:)

@Kindred wanna get some practice in with me and possivbly show me some tech, and lets get your cyrax friend and see what he learned?

@Apex Kano ill need some practice with your Kano, Sonya, Shinnok! and BTW i found some awesome tech with CT. he is still Decent and i think he will come out of this. i know he lost armor, but he still has B31 xx Powerup Plus on block into B31/B1 and if they miss the block on B1 then you can follow up with B122 and full combo, not to mention you can still put a throw after Powerup and mix them up that way. so Low/Throw 50/50.

anyways i will need your Kano mad skills to practice doggy!
BTW Reptile still has the Glitch with Invis, he can Take a single hit from anything and take no damage when Inviseable, so he out trades with zoning with normal DD3 LMAO
 
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Harlequin969

Always press buttons
The b1 cancel advantage went up. What does that mean? Neither sub nor smoke can combo b1 into there smoke/ice ball still.
 

MadeOfMetal

Kenshi Srubtastic,Cyrax, Special Forces Mains
The b1 cancel advantage went up. What does that mean? Neither sub nor smoke can combo b1 into there smoke/ice ball still.
it means the Mixup game is not true 50/50's anymore, and its very hard to mixup with B1 on CSZ now and Cyrax lost mixup game.
 

Dankster Morgan

she don’t call me daddy she call me Grandmaster
I'm looking forward to trying him again. He actually has decent pros to him now. He isn't the greatest but he will definitely be usable and a threat now imo. F13 coming back, the system changes, nerfs to better characters are very nice.
 

LastKarma

Under The Red Hood
I fail to see why people are happy about this. I agree that the new meta will help in some ways. No armored launchers helps out our gaps a ton. (f12 boys) BUT, now that our mixups are reactable we are going to be burning a bar to make it safe. So basically what we are left with now is making godlike reads, YOLO slides and divekicks, and being able to Punish with f13 iceball. Final note. Our mobility helps us where others lost out, our gaps are less risky than before and we can finally punish with f13 iceball..... Char still sucks ass :mad:
 

MadeOfMetal

Kenshi Srubtastic,Cyrax, Special Forces Mains
CSZ is great now, he had a mad Mixup game and NAsty corner PRepatchj, secretly many of my friends never talked about it, but wikth the buffs and universal nerfs, CSZ i think is gonna be Top Tier or Close to maybe A Tier, but have nmo possible way of nowing that any time soon.

@Madzin what do you think about CSZ now?
 

Harlequin969

Always press buttons
With CSZ just go for your mixup after a bomb setup. Bombs make your mixup safe if I'm not mistaken. If you're not using bombs then focus on just drones and punishing while forcing your opponent to make mistakes.