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Community feedback: future balance issues

trufenix

bye felicia
Fair point. Why should it get patched after Evo? And this is just a guess, but I thought maybe the near 300 people said to be testing the game, would leave it pretty balanced by it's release? Because I've asked what the process is for testing a fighting game before and no one ever replied.

Although I understand how 300 testers is different from putting a game in the hands of the rest of the world.
"testing" is not the same as "balancing". The 300 people testing the game are making sure it doesn't crash when you press button and making sure moves work the way they're supposed to. It probably either just began or will soon begin actual balancing since they're probably about to hit feature lock and submit to ESRB.
 
"testing" is not the same as "balancing". The 300 people testing the game are making sure it doesn't crash when you press button and making sure moves work the way they're supposed to. It probably either just began or will soon begin actual balancing since they're probably about to hit feature lock and submit to ESRB.
Okay I see. Wow, I didn't know that. So for that reason alone wouldn't a thread like this benefit NRS then? Is it known how many people are balancing the game?
 

STRYKIE

Are ya' ready for MK11 kids?!
Okay, so what about Kabal then? How did he not get fixed within the time NRS was patching the game?
Everyone kinda got in a massive rage over PL's Kung Lao machine gunning 2,4,low hat against Mileena to win EVO 2011 and pretty much forgot about Kabal entirely.

Part of it is probably the infamous "next best character" syndrome though. Not to sound condescending but, nobody seems to have an answer for me when I ask why barely anybody had anything to say about Superman until after the Scorpion debacle. You can't please everyone.
 

coolwhip

Noob
Well I was hoping it would be... but it doesn't seem like it anymore...
I mean, there's nothing to be able to seriously determine just by watching gameplay footage of something nobody here has his hands on. There's no reason why NRS should listen to anyone here at this point because all we'd be offering is an uninformed opinion.
 

dreemernj

Ambassador
Based on what's been presented in video footage & demos, what concerns do you have in regards to balance and what adjustments would you make and why? And when it comes to patching, when and how often should it be done and why?
Nothing can be said. It's too early. Try again after its been released and people have played it.
 

rev0lver

Come On Die Young
NRS should have hired people to balance the game that don't compete, people who are experienced in balancing fighting games and have been doing it for years. David Sirlin's rebalance on Super Turbo with HD Remix should be proof that no matter how many years of tournament experience you have, it has no correlation to how well you can balance a game, even if it is the sae game you played for lik 15 years. Patch the game after Evo (preferably 2-3 months after) and only remove infinites and glitches like mike mentioned.
You realize NRS doesn't hire "balancers", right? The one balancing the game is Paulo lol. They just bring in players as testers partially to see what they can figure out and things like that, which helps them figure out how to balance stuff but in the end it's, as they say, "paulo's vision"
 
Everyone kinda got in a massive rage over PL's Kung Lao machine gunning 2,4,low hat against Mileena to win EVO 2011 and pretty much forgot about Kabal entirely.

Part of it is probably the infamous "next best character" syndrome though. Nobody seems to have an answer for me when I ask why barely anybody had anything to say about Superman until after the Scorpion debacle. You can't please everybody.
I'm still not well enough informed. There's something missing from the picture though. Is it a sales thing, because that's what it sounds like to me. Doesn't NRS have enough experience in the industry to know what to patch and what not to? I mean if they are listening to the players you're describing, what well thought out reasons do they give NRS to patch the game other than "I'm upset my favorite character lost to cheapness"?

And I don't get why this thread is getting so much hate from some of you. It's not like I'm saying what moves to patch.

I mean, there's nothing to be able to seriously determine just by watching gameplay footage of something nobody here has his hands on. There's no reason why NRS should listen to anyone here at this point because all we'd be offering is an uninformed opinion.
That's true. I didn't think about it like that. I guess when I was reading all the threads on character movement analysis for MKX, I was under the impression folks on here were describing what moves look useless and which are OP for instance. I didn't realize they are speculating just as much as anyone right now.
 
You realize NRS doesn't hire "balancers", right? The one balancing the game is Paulo lol. They just bring in players as testers partially to see what they can figure out and things like that, which helps them figure out how to balance stuff but in the end it's, as they say, "paulo's vision"
This sounds like a lot of work for what's basically one person and the other partial few. So why aren't there a lot more "balance testers" again? What's the right term anyway?
 

STRYKIE

Are ya' ready for MK11 kids?!
I'm still not well enough informed. There's something missing from the picture though. Is it a sales thing, because that's what it sounds like to me. Doesn't NRS have enough experience in the industry to know what to patch and what not to? I mean if they are listening to the players you're describing, what well thought out reasons do they give NRS to patch the game other than "I'm upset my favorite character lost to cheapness"?

And I don't get why this thread is getting so much hate from some of you. It's not like I'm saying what moves to patch.
I genuinely apologize if it seems like I'm coming across that way, personally I feel this is actually a warranted thread. Overall I suppose MK9 is a little bit of a different story since the training mode was so barebones and didn't provide us with much resources to explore stuff for ourselves. Imagine what MMH could be getting away with now in Injustice if all the training mode options let you do was set him to block or wake-up, without even letting you choose the wake-up lol.
 

RM Jonnitti

Hot Dog
You realize NRS doesn't hire "balancers", right? The one balancing the game is Paulo lol. They just bring in players as testers partially to see what they can figure out and things like that, which helps them figure out how to balance stuff but in the end it's, as they say, "paulo's vision"
yeah i know this. what im saying is they should have hired balancers. specifically people who aren't competitors. the competitors an still be testers though
 
I genuinely apologize if it seems like I'm coming across that way, personally I feel this is actually a warranted thread. Overall I suppose MK9 is a little bit of a different story since the training mode was so barebones and didn't provide us with much resources to explore stuff for ourselves. Imagine what MMH could be getting away with now in Injustice if all the training mode options let you do was set him to block or wake-up, without even letting you choose the wake-up lol.
NO not you Strykie! I just had to put that somewhere in my post lol. I'm still learning a lot, so some people need to lighten up on here.
 

rev0lver

Come On Die Young
This sounds like a lot of work for what's basically one person and the other partial few. So why aren't there a lot more "balance testers" again? What's the right term anyway?
In the past they brought in a bunch of NRS players temporarily for that, so they might again. The permanent guys are testing characters from the alpha stages, so their job is probably partially that but most of it's actual testing than trying to figure things out. But it's always the developers who decide how to tweak move properties and things like that.
 

SHAOLIN

内部冲突
Patch infinites and glitches immediately if found,balance changes after 6 months....problem solved.
 
Only patch infinites and glitches. Balance the game after EVO
in addition to that, make checks for necessary balance tweaks every 6 months or so. continue until a majority can agree this game is balanced (has no ridiculously op/up characters anymore). best for the tournament scene and overall durability would be to do it the street fighter way, and never stop balancing/adding new chars until MKXI
 

REDRUM

www.twitter.com/redrum26
nobody should have any concerns/complaints yet..

like metroid said... ONLY glitches and infinites should be hotfixed out... thats all... Balancing should come 3-6 mos after release. And they should stick to their promise (which they didnt for IGAU) of buffing "weaker chars" instead of nerfing "perceivablely strong chars"..

Buff up the weak to balance... Dont nerf
 
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SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
Patch infinites and glitches immediately if found,balance changes after 6 months....problem solved.
I don't agree with this line of thinking. I'm not a "patch every month" type of guy, but I do feel like if there are going to be, say 5-6 patches total then the 1st one should be in the 1st month or so and patch out bs. Then the 2nd one can wait a long time.

The first patch should be early and patch out glitches as well as true broken things. For example, Cyborg's infinite and Superman's F2 3, breath are both on the same level of patch immediately to me. No reason to go through 6 months of that.
 

FinalBoss_FGC

Day -4MONTHS Dual Jin main
It's too soon to talk balance, and it will still be too soon until 6 months after the game is released and people spend enough time in the laboratory figuring out things and strategies. After 6 months in, you can start talking very carefully about balance.

Patching for balance should be done once a year, after each EVO (not EVO 2015 in this case, but the consecutive ones), based on the tournaments results of the whole year and ONLY top players feedback.
Top player feedback? Most top players are too salty for their own good. Scorpion should not have been nerfed to the extent that he was and 95% of that was "top player feedback".
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
Oh, I'm sorry that I wasn't clear on my stance towards patching broken things.
Yea man then we both agree. Just get the crap out the way in the beginning and then give the game a long while to develop before a 2nd patch. That's how it should be.