Choosing a main/team

Discussion in '[MK9] General Discussion' started by CamRac, May 7, 2012.

  1. salvificblood

    salvificblood Worst Sub-Zero Ever
    Premium Supporter

    Kitana has really good footsies. She's a brilliant zoner against certain characters but she's more footsies and whiff punishment to me.

    F21 is great when you get comfortable with the range, 21, cutter on block leaves you in great position to whiff punish pokes or just back up and iaf. Max range d1 can be followed up with b12. All footsies tools.

    Great spacing tools all round, and ex lift is actually pretty dirty. Catches people off guard a lot.
  2. Uh, Slips. Before that, one of my longtime training partners was Krebs, who was easily one of the best Ermac players early on in the game's lifespan (he got 9th at CEO, and unfortunately he wasn't able to travel more). He all but quit playing MK9, but even now, he's easily one of the better Ermacs I've played. Regardless, feel free to tell me that Slips' Ermac doesn't qualify for MU experience.

    Dash blocking in sounds fine on paper because it's equally fine in practice. Ermac really has NOTHING to deter a single character in this game from steadily gaining ground against him, apart from an attack and grab mixup created by the throw (which still doesn't give him amazing damage, it just ejects the opponent to fullscreen distance again). This is reliable against certain characters, but against someone like Cyber Sub who can punish a blocked push from the range where it's a 50/50 with a dash in grab, it's ineffective. ONE blocked push, at that range, and Cyber Sub gets a free slide into an untechable knockdown and huge advantage. Ermac's only crossup defense, on knockdown, is Slips' EX lift option select, or a similar one I found with the push.

    He stays on Ermac's ass with minimal effort required, that's what.

    Holy shit, is this really your rationale? Ermac can MAYBE poke out or fish for a lift at some point? If this argument held any weight whatsoever, against any character in the game, no one would consider Cage or Sonya to be threats. You can technically just poke out against either character to escape pressure and be home free, but play a top Sonya or Cage and tell me it's so easy to do. Moreover, it's difficult to force Cyber Sub to whiff punish when he's on you, as 2 1 and 2 1 1+2 are both zero on block and 2 1 is an advancing string. If Ermac pokes out, OH NO, what then? His D1 is only +1 on hit, and the only real mixup it gives him is between D1 into grab or D1 into back dash push. If Ermac attempts the push and guesses wrong, well shit, he's eating another slide and Cyber Sub gets to come in and pressure again. Fishing for a lift is also a fine way to get blown up for full combos, because if you aren't getting it on a whiff punish, you'd might as well commit to a guess. The ONLY time Ermac can consistently get a lift is if he reads or reacts to a parry, and Cyber Sub really has no reason to parry excessively against Ermac.


    All credibility lost, in the blink of an eye.

    Let's break this down:

    - 1 2 hits high, so it can be poked out of. Pretty straightforward.

    - 3 1 can be interrupted by an uppercut if Cyber Sub is in crouch block, every single time, meaning it's only safe to use after a JIP. Generally, the only time that'll happen is after the safe jump granted by a teleport that hits standing or a 3 1 2, which you probably won't get unless you land that initial safe jump. This string gets blown up, badly. The best part is that if you go for anything after a blocked 3 1 and Cyber Sub reads it, he can cross you up and hit confirm into the bomb trap for a meterless 55%. I'd say that kind of puts a dent in the risk/reward tradeoff for Ermac.

    - B1 1 4 is slower than fucking molasses, so you're only going to get this reliably off a JIP or taking a chance on it in advantage situations (protip: You won't get many of these). It's also -4 on block, meaning Cyber Sub can B2 or B2 2 to check him on block afterward. It'll beat the lift, the push, 3 1, and pretty much anything else that isn't a D1. IAB and 1 2 can technically interrupt it if they're executed down to the frame. If he gets a D!, OH NO, back into the same unsafe attack/grab mixup where Ermac eats shit every single time he guesses wrong.

    - F4 is disadvantage on block, and when you consider that there's literally no reason not to crouch block against Ermac, that kind of kills its edge.

    ...Do I need to go on, or can we just safely assume all of Ermac's potential pressure strings are ass? I've played this character for a long, long time, and while I think he's comfortably in mid tier, it sure as shit isn't because of his pressure. Bottom line: Ermac survives by using the threat of the push to limit options against zoners and create attack/grab mixups against rushdown characters. Cyber Sub doesn't zone him, and he punishes the push with an attack that gives him a lot of advantage to continue pressing his offense. Cyber Sub wins this matchup, period. Pig and J360 both agree with me on this.
  3. RampaginDragon

    RampaginDragon Loses to uppercuts

    All this because I say a MU is 5-5 and you say its 6-4. Like I said, I don't get tons of MU exp for this guy. And maybe, just maybe, do you think that the people we play that use Ermac might just play differently? Something the MK community needs to learn is that not everyone needs to play a fighter the same. Which can differ the MU exp. Was there any reason whatsoever to be insulting and rude in this post? We were simply sharing our opinions on the MU, then you have to ruin it. I could hardly stand when you started every single book you wrote with "Uh, ya, but" or "Except, [something saying that they are wrong]' etc. etc. Can you try not to be a smartass mister moderator? I mean seriously. I cant ignore you because some genius decided to make you a moderator, I have to deal with it. And I'm sure your tired of these arguments as well, so just try not to be such a smartass or dick to everyone. And I swear I am not saying this to be rude or to instigate, but those are the only words I can use to describe how you are on this website, without making my Mother cry. And trust me, I could totally argue this further, the MU that is, but I have just decided it’s better to let you think your right or you will argue with me till the day the world ends. It’s called being the bigger person. Now I don't know if some dramatic occurrence happened during your childhood to make you like this, but really, just try to be nice for once? Maybe you'll like it more than making every single person on this website despise you in some way. Who knows?
  4. NKZero

    NKZero Premium Supporter
    Premium Supporter

    Dude Ermac cannot really pressure. Altaire was right (although he didn't express himself in the most polite manner). Things whiff or are slow as fuck and need a JIP to get started (which is unreliable). I dunno the match-up though so I cannot say whether it's a 6-4 or a 5-5. You should also get Metzos' perspective on this match-up. Perhaps he can add to it...
    Espio872 and RampaginDragon like this.
  5. Alice

    Alice Haaave you met Sektor?

    I do the best. First I had CSZ and I have Cyrax now, and planning on picking up Sektor. I just go all robot.

    On that Ermac vs CSZ matchup, I give credit to Altaire technically, but there is a point that the player itself could be caught off guard by a never before seen style, it's true. But Ermac can't do anything that would surprise a well educated csz.
  6. CamRac

    CamRac How do I block?

    Ok, so I've gotten it down to Raiden, Ermac, NW, and Kenshi. Now I just need to form a bawse team with them... I know Raiden/Kenshi was suggested by Death -- do you guys have any other suggestions?

    Oh, and I say, "LOUD NOISES!" to the CSZ arguments.
  7. NKZero

    NKZero Premium Supporter
    Premium Supporter

    Is your primary character Raiden? If so, then you have to worry about Sonya and Kabal (maybe Jax and Cyber Sub but they are easier no doubt and I dunno if they are bad match-ups anyways).

    Nightwolf loses to both characters (I play with him though and he's fun as hell :p). But for the purpose of forming a two man team he wouldn't make the cut.

    Ermac might lose or draw even with Sonya. I reckon he loses to Kabal so probably not.

    Kenshi can hold his own the best against the two of them.

    Basically I agree with what Death said. Raiden/Kenshi should cover everything.
  8. CamRac

    CamRac How do I block?

    Yes, I think Raiden is my primary character, and all that you said makes sense. But... What if we go to a 3 man team? :)

    Sgt Reed's idea basically leaves me at Raiden/Kenshi/NW, but I'm still torn because of how cool I think Ermac is... Why must MK have so many cool characters in its roster?! lol
  9. NKZero

    NKZero Premium Supporter
    Premium Supporter

    You have the same problem like countless others. Character variety disorder :p. If you like Ermac then just remove Nightwolf I'd say (this is if you must have a 3 man team).

    Ermac (nor NW for that matter) will cover any matches that Kenshi already doesn't so....

    Alternatively just grind out the hard matches with Raiden and Ermac until you have no need to counter-pick. To me these two seem like your favourite characters. I dunno dude it's up to you. You can play with as many as you want to and choose who for who. I have the same problems lol :).
  10. CamRac

    CamRac How do I block?

    Lol, ok ok, fair enough. From here, I'll just figure things out on my own, though I'm still open to more "team suggestions" if any of you other guys have some good input. For the sake of that conversation, I'd like to still include Stryker, as I'm still having fun playing him, too.
  11. G4S J360

    G4S J360 i Use a modded cyber now
    Premium Supporter

    Ive only played all robot since the beginning. They are the coolest fucking characters in the game, the path a la robo is the way to go.
    RampaginDragon and Alice like this.
  12. CamRac

    CamRac How do I block?

    I now only play 2nd Timeline Smoke, just to spite J360 and Alice.
    Grolarbears likes this.
  13. Actually, some consider Ermac a counterpick for Kabal, so who knows? You can work your way around any match up with any character, though, imo.
    Espio872 likes this.
  14. NKZero

    NKZero Premium Supporter
    Premium Supporter

    Yeah I agree that you can work around it but strictly speaking Ermac loses to Kabal. At the end of the day I was never a huge fan of counter-picks (although I realise it is necessary to compete). Props to anyone who can slug out every tough match with their favourite character.
  15. Agreed. I was just saying that if Cam was planning to take Ermac/Raiden, he may have just covered his bad match ups. I'm not sure any group can say otherwise except for the Ermac board. Metzos and a few others apparently have a very different opinion of where Ermac sits in the metagame. :p

    All in all, character loyalty for the win.
    NKZero likes this.
  16. CamRac

    CamRac How do I block?

    So... I should just scrap everything and play only Sheeva?

    NKZero likes this.
  17. Alice

    Alice Haaave you met Sektor?

    I think...we will show no mercy. :cool:
    J360 likes this.
  18. CamRac

    CamRac How do I block?

    Nah, it's all good, man. I'm still keeping CSZ around. He was just trying to honor his brother and then got turned into a fucking ice robot. It's a story I can personally relate to...
  19. RampaginDragon

    RampaginDragon Loses to uppercuts

    Well, maybe the guy that I fight just has me whipped. He mixes me uo/pressures with 31, 312, 312 push/lift. And if I guess wrong, I either get comboed or reset for another mix up. Not to mention Ermac does ass tons of dmg. Next time we fight, I'll use CSZ exclusivly, and get more exp.
  20. RampaginDragon

    RampaginDragon Loses to uppercuts

    Ya, but fuck Rax. He gives me salty tears.
  21. Gruntypants

    Gruntypants Real Soviet Damage!

    Rax needs to work hard to earn those salty tears of yours.
  22. RampaginDragon

    RampaginDragon Loses to uppercuts

    Tossing out bombs like a machine gun and throwing out the occasional 18 frame AA'ing monster of a projectile that freezes your opponent for your choice of reset into close to 100% dmg isnt working hard. The only thing reletivly hard about him is trying not to drop his super long combos. Which would still be a freak occurence.
    salvificblood likes this.
  23. Gruntypants

    Gruntypants Real Soviet Damage!

    Oh please, even when I play you I don't use resets. Also he needs that net, that thing is a mega sloth and deserves everybit of largness it gets.
  24. RampaginDragon

    RampaginDragon Loses to uppercuts

    Ya you do. Its not a megasloth??? Its 10 frames faster than ice ball!!! And 3 times as big!!! And 4 frames less recovery!!!
  25. Gruntypants

    Gruntypants Real Soviet Damage!

    The actual travel speed of the net is much slower than the iceball, not to mention the thing has atleast 30 frames of cooldown if not more.

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