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Characters Who Carry Garbage Players and Play

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Pyrosis

Pyrosis

Gentlemen, behold! My opinion!
Characters who encourage dogshit play and noobish gameplay, rewarding players who mash or don't have any interest in actually learning the game:

Jade (Any Variation)
Joker (Any Variation)
Jax players that only use Hunker Down for the extended strings and mash their brains out
Reborn Scorpions who just teleport with no reads the whole match and hope you make the wrong call between empty teleport or regular teleport
Lui Kangs who just hit buttons because literally every string he has is plus on block

Feel free to add more
 
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T

ticklebandit!

Apprentice
Jump Lao, wake up cross up jump kick into huge damage because your anti air decided to not come out. If you decide to hit a s1 to bop them out of the air? NOPE! that time they were doing delayed wake up into d2 kb! "high level reads!"

Wifi teleport raiden

Wifi geras mashing after everything, literally doesn't stop pressing buttons and doesn't have to. Gets to play a completely different game than the rest of us.

Scorpion players that refuse to approach the entire match, you have to literally walk them from corner to corner and when they are cornered its the jip, jip teleport, or jump in tele cancel mix for the win. then of course tea bags into fatality. Not super hard to beat but tedious and boring to play

any character with what I call "wonder buttons." Like erron blacks d3, johnnys d4, jades d4, basically a button that low profiles everything including mids and jump ins, can anti air, is plus on hit for follow up, safely pushes back on block, super fast recovery, essentially does absolutely everything you could ever want in a fighting game. Your opponent can mash it in the neutral like a chimp and its "high level". I'm guilty of abusing them as well with noob

/salt
 
Gooberking

Gooberking

FGC Cannon Fodder
IDK. I'm tempted to think this way sometimes, but the reality is what works shifts around a lot as you move through the skill levels. There are certainly easy to do things that a person can rely on that will fail them at some point. Stuff where if someone doesn't learn anything else, they just RQ or fall apart once it stops working. Like maybe you can beat some players with Stomps when you can't beat them any other way.

What those things are seems very dependent on the level of play. Scorpion TPing like wild might overwhelm lower grade players, but that falls apart pretty quick and hard along the way up skills.

If two people that have little idea how to play a fighting game fire up MK11 for the first time, and one person picks Kitana and the other Jacqui, there is a really good chance the JB player is going to be stuck eating fans from the far side of the screen complaining about Kitana being unfair. Is Kitana carrying? Is JB weak? Can it be simultaneously true that Kitana is over powered for them and JB be broken at some other level of play? How far up the skill ladder does something have to get someone to be carrying?

I've certainly been frustrated getting pushed around by someone I feel like doesn't really understand the game or have much of a game plan, but then I also kind of get that if I was significantly better than them then I probably wouldn't be struggling to shut their BS down more effectively.

But then sometimes the opposite becomes true. You see someone is over reliant on one thing a character is known for, and you know if you can blow that one thing up, then they have nothing else to protect them. You go hard on that one thing and see if you can get them to RQ.
 
Pyrosis

Pyrosis

Gentlemen, behold! My opinion!
Gooberking said:
IDK. I'm tempted to think this way sometimes, but the reality is what works shifts around a lot as you move through the skill levels. There are certainly easy to do things that a person can rely on that will fail them at some point. Stuff where if someone doesn't learn anything else, they just RQ or fall apart once it stops working. Like maybe you can beat some players with Stomps when you can't beat them any other way.

What those things are seems very dependent on the level of play. Scorpion TPing like wild might overwhelm lower grade players, but that falls apart pretty quick and hard along the way up skills.

If two people that have little idea how to play a fighting game fire up MK11 for the first time, and one person picks Kitana and the other Jacqui, there is a really good chance the JB player is going to be stuck eating fans from the far side of the screen complaining about Kitana being unfair. Is Kitana carrying? Is JB weak? Can it be simultaneously true that Kitana is over powered for them and JB be broken at some other level of play? How far up the skill ladder does something have to get someone to be carrying?

I've certainly been frustrated getting pushed around by someone I feel like doesn't really understand the game or have much of a game plan, but then I also kind of get that if I was significantly better than them then I probably wouldn't be struggling to shut their BS down more effectively.

But then sometimes the opposite becomes true. You see someone is over reliant on one thing a character is known for, and you know if you can blow that one thing up, then they have nothing else to protect them. You go hard on that one thing and see if you can get them to RQ.
Click to expand...
How about this, for example... Sub-Zero's that I can just tell are less knowledgeable of the game than me can still 50/50 mix me and get carried the entire game. Likewise, Sonicfox says Sub is broken online and he absolutely hates to pay them and can't react to the overhead online but can offline. Ergo. Sub-Zero carries.

While I don't think he's the best player of all time Sikander has tons of issues with Jades, Sindels, and Jokers. They all carry. There's no way their reactions or optimals are as on point as Sikander's but he'll often lose to them because they have just outright broke shit in Kombat League.

How do you feel about this?
 
Pyrosis

Pyrosis

Gentlemen, behold! My opinion!
Now that Sonicfox has exposed Sheeva's mix I'd add her to the list too. People just learn her basic mix and spam it over and over and over.
 
Gooberking

Gooberking

FGC Cannon Fodder
Pyrosis said:
How about this, for example... Sub-Zero's that I can just tell are less knowledgeable of the game than me can still 50/50 mix me and get carried the entire game. Likewise, Sonicfox says Sub is broken online and he absolutely hates to pay them and can't react to the overhead online but can offline. Ergo. Sub-Zero carries.

While I don't think he's the best player of all time Sikander has tons of issues with Jades, Sindels, and Jokers. They all carry. There's no way their reactions or optimals are as on point as Sikander's but he'll often lose to them because they have just outright broke shit in Kombat League.

How do you feel about this?
Click to expand...
IDK. I'm not necessarily suggesting the phenomenon doesn't exist, more that it's hard to reduce down to a character or set of characters because what "works" mutates across skill levels. Match ups also cloud the issue, because A) they can blow up typical character plan, and B) because they also mutate across skills.

Who is going to struggle against what is going to change. A mess of people complain about Scorpion still, but how many of them even really know they can just duck across the far side of the screen when they have the life lead? Hearing some less committed groups talk about what is "broken" can sound like being in a bizarro world. Should I listen to those people? Should I totally dismiss them when that is their experience and perspective for where they are at? How do I know where they are at, where you are at, and how that all relates to where I'm at?

I totally get being annoyed by someone reaping the rewards of doing something stupid or playing recklessly. I'm just not entirely sure what I'm supposed to do with that line of conversation.

and just for I guess perspective, I don't mind playing Sub, Joker, Jade. I will auto die to Jax, and screw Warlock because that is impossible from where I'm standing (which is always right about where a hell spark is rising)
 
Pyrosis

Pyrosis

Gentlemen, behold! My opinion!
But is it also not easy to quantify what these characters have that is inherently broken, especially online, and thus they are easy to be carried by? Compare Shao Kahn pressure to Joker pressure. Joker, safe on everything. Shao Kahn, you have to play your guts out to remain safe and apply enough pressure to not just get ran over. Joker... any of his insane range mids, confirm into damage or end with jack in the box if they blocked.

A player who finds success with Joker consistently I would just about guarantee would not find that same success playing another character. So, to me, they're carried. And that carried-NESS translates to not actually having to learn the game in terms of spacing or footsies because you have mids that reach at least half the starting distance, if not a bit more, and not to mention probably the best dashes in the entire game.

What I do with this line of conversation is: Say they're carried. Cause 1. They are. And 2. It makes my tears dry just a little faster.
 
Gooberking

Gooberking

FGC Cannon Fodder
Pyrosis said:
But is it also not easy to quantify what these characters have that is inherently broken, especially online, and thus they are easy to be carried by? Compare Shao Kahn pressure to Joker pressure. Joker, safe on everything. Shao Kahn, you have to play your guts out to remain safe and apply enough pressure to not just get ran over. Joker... any of his insane range mids, confirm into damage or end with jack in the box if they blocked.

A player who finds success with Joker consistently I would just about guarantee would not find that same success playing another character. So, to me, they're carried. And that carried-NESS translates to not actually having to learn the game in terms of spacing or footsies because you have mids that reach at least half the starting distance, if not a bit more, and not to mention probably the best dashes in the entire game.

What I do with this line of conversation is: Say they're carried. Cause 1. They are. And 2. It makes my tears dry just a little faster.
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I would probably need to know why I'm totally fine making a number of Jokers RQ while I get bodied by almost all Shao Kahn's I've run into to be able to comment on that
 
Demon_0

Demon_0

RIP Akira Toriyama
Jade variation 1 takes first place, by far. The input delay and wifi connections make her the go-to character for every shitty, skilless scrub out there. NRS should give this variation a complete do-over.

Honorable mentions are Lao's and Kitana players who mash the fuck out of jumping lol cause of their floaty jumps. Though, 9 out of 10 times I blow them up for it.
 
Art Lean

Art Lean

Kombatant
Sheeva, variation 1.

And I should know, I'm unbelievably 16 wins to 0 losses in the current KL season with her... and I'm fucking terrible.

I'm sure my winning streak will end tonight, but she's definitely carried me so far (and I don't even spam the stomp).

Love ya baby :rolleyes:... now papa needs that new Reptile skin, don't let me down!

17681
 
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DixieFlatline78

DixieFlatline78

Everyone Has A Path
There's a very slim margin of players who can't get better against certain characters by studying the matchup. I'm definitely not included in that margin
 
Vslayer

Vslayer

Juiced Moose On The Loose
Lead Moderator
Some characters are frustrating to play against, which in turn makes you frustrated, which in turn, makes you stop thinking logically, and then you just get angrier and angrier and you start playing super sloppy.

I do think some characters in this game are too strong, like Jacqui who NEEDS nerfs, but for a lot of characters, it's just about learning to adapt which a lot of people just don't want to do. Skill is one thing, but being able to adapt to someone's crazy playstyle as Lao for example, then you're never going to improve.

Plus KL is not a good way to measure your skill anyways, it's FT2, it's quick, and connections aren't always great.

If you're having trouble against top tiers, learn the MU and do the best you can.

If you're having trouble against crackheads then adapt, if they jump 2, if they do pokes into specials, BLOCK.
 
Marlow

Marlow

Champion
My experience is that most of the time when a lower level player is letting the character carry them it's because they can simply spam the same few moves over and over. So if I can just figure out how to counter the 1-2 things the opponent is doing it basically shuts down their entire game plan, and they're left not really knowing what to do.

Obviously easier said than done.
 
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