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Match-Up Discussion - Cassie Cage Cassie Cage Community MU Chart/discussion

Vslayer

I'm a gril
Moderator
Premium Supporter
hollywood loses the zoning war here too
knockdown/teleport against sektor, full combo against kitana unless your iag timing allow the second hit to stagger

to me, holly is better for sektor, brawler for kitana
also since we can 242 / flip any upclose fan, her pressure isn't that scary. we can flip 9/10 the exrising into float for an easy punish

I'd like someone with the right experience to give pointers to the smoke matchup
seem stupid to me
I don't mind the Kitana MU very much if I'm honst but against Sektor is a tad rough because of his Missiles. I'm talking about Brawler only here.
I just had a set with a really good sektor. I was playing Holly, and it came out to 4-6 in Sektor's favor. Would probably have been better in Cassie's favor if I would punish blocked strings more consistently. I would honestly say 5-5 if both players are solid.

I noticed Sektor's string into lock-on missles (the one that come from the top of the screen), can be punished with hard shell to get in and avoid them. The straight missles beat her EX gun shots so forget it. It's just a game of duck duck goose if you're being zoned.

If you know his strings, like Smoke, it can be a challenging but good MU for Holly. Know his strings, block and punish.
 

Scott The Scot

Where there is smoke, there is cancer.
ofc sub is an easier character for both execution and gameplan in most matchups
but cassie can deal with him even in neutral
df1 can be always used and ji4 jumps the clone beautifully
in corner with a clone up, you're screwed with most of the roster, Cassie definitely hasn't the hardest time especially now with 2hits of armor
midscreen you can make the sub respect df1/ji4 so all he has is to sit behind the clone launching useless iceballs and holly destroys that kind of subs

to me it might be a 5-5 for both braw and holly..it all comes down on how you want to play this matchup
if you got iag consistency and nerves, holly can force him into less clones/more silly iceball shooting
brawler doesn't really care about clone setups and once he gets tagged by ji4 he's at 40% less life for you to take away



technically, once sektor is down on the ground, he's not supposed to wake up again against brawler



the problem is the neutral itself against smoke
walking back b21 kinda kills the matchup for cassie and you can't always punish the second hit
need more experience tho..this fiendbusa any good?
Hmm maybe. I think I need more experience in the matchup. I still think Sub's clone is very good at stopping Cassies neutral and she has to start playing his game. It's not like Sub will stand still and let you jump over the clone every time with JI4 or use d+f1, he can take measures like using D4 to low profile and make the jump in land in the clone or trip guarding her. But again, I'll need more experience I think.


Yeah that's true with the Sektor thing. My problem is his missiles and neutral in generally really good.


I mean if he does B21 against Brawler on block then she can interrupt with EX Tackle every time. If B21 whiffs then you can punish it every single time with walk forward 242 to catch the 2nd hit. The way I like to play the MU is by staying out of the range of B2 and walking him to the corner but if he wants to be aggressive then I go in Brawl with him. @21122 give this man some games, since you both have the PC version.
 

Scott The Scot

Where there is smoke, there is cancer.
Lots of the cast have two or even three hits of armour now. Spec Ops must have gotten a lot worse. 2-8 seems super harsh though, man :/
@Espio have you had any experience against Spec Ops Cassie? You're the only Tigrar that I know of so it'd be nice to have your thoughts on the MU.
 

Compbros

Man of Tomorrow
Lots of the cast have two or even three hits of armour now. Spec Ops must have gotten a lot worse. 2-8 seems super harsh though, man :/

But a lot don't have the ability to launch from it nor do they have forward advancing moves that punish a rocket cancel. Any string or normal (except two) can be punch walked on reaction if you cancel it into rocket and rocket will whiff. I have never played a matchup with Spec Ops where I felt more helpless.


Edit: I take that back, Tarkatan Alien was pretty trash pre-patch.
 

Scott The Scot

Where there is smoke, there is cancer.
But a lot don't have the ability to launch from it nor do they have forward advancing moves that punish a rocket cancel. Any string or normal (except two) can be punch walked on reaction if you cancel it into rocket and rocket will whiff. I have never played a matchup with Spec Ops where I felt more helpless.


Edit: I take that back, Tarkatan Alien was pretty trash pre-patch.
You make some good points. Never played it so I'll take your word for it. Just hoping that Espio replies so that I can heat what he has to say (good to have both sides of the MU).
 

Espio

Revered By Tarkata
Lead Moderator
@Espio have you had any experience against Spec Ops Cassie? You're the only Tigrar that I know of so it'd be nice to have your thoughts on the MU.
Goro has always done great versus Cassie, but her changes over time alongside Goro's have made it notably worse. Compbros touched on a lot of points so I don't wanna reiterate everything, but Cassie's weak wake up game is huge, she is one of if not the easiest characters to oki for Goro. She's almost as vulnerable as Quan except Quan can keep people out, Spec ops isn't for any notable length of time and fireballs are so much better now with way quicker recovery and start up. I don't at all believe it's anywhere near 8-2 though as her footsies are still good and she can still low profile under some mids with her pokes, but she definitely is in for a harder time versus Goro. There's just not really a comfortable range for her to reliably play at as she loses at range, gets handled well on oki and up close, but she definitely can make some things happen with her set ups if she catches Goro without meter, I'd label it 6-4 MAYBE at worst 7-3, but it's probably not that lopsided.
 

YoloRoll1stHit

Publicly Educated
to me, brawler is the best variation against grandmaster if not in general
any stringxxclone setup can be punished better than with other variations: df1xxtakedown
any stringxxclone can be grabbed either via takedown or bowbreaker and there's a degree of mind play there because of the startups/hit levels
and if you can stay in the right range, the clone isn't even an option
if cornered, 242 beats almost any clone into string setup (clone, 12 shatter or b2) and it's better to reverse sides with bowbreaker
it looks like you have been playing SCRUB zero way too much
Sub won't randomly clone out of nowhere or stay in df1 range to clone. Sub also has many hit confirmable strings and he won't do unsafe clone. F4/d4 clone is absolutely safe against Brawler. In the corner he has like 7 options to loop you with clone setup, 242 can only beat 2 options (12, nondelayed B2) from impatient Sub. Smart GM murders Brawler
 

shura30

Shura
Sub won't randomly clone out of nowhere or stay in df1 range to clone. Sub also has many hit confirmable strings and he won't do unsafe clone.
if no clone, there's always a gap to exploit unless he yoloes a slide

F4/d4 clone is absolutely safe against Brawler.
maybe your non scrubzeros have a version of the game in which d4xxclone is safe
on mine, it's not
only safe way to put the clone out after a blockstring is f4xxclone

In the corner he has like 7 options to loop you with clone setup, 242 can only beat 2 options (12, nondelayed B2) from impatient Sub. Smart GM murders Brawler
brawler has 2 hits of armor since the last patch on both grabs (one is oh and the other is an high)
if you see him move, grab and maybe reverse sides..then tell me how he's supposed to wakeup
 

YoloRoll1stHit

Publicly Educated
maybe your non scrubzeros have a version of the game in which d4xxclone is safe
on mine, it's not
only safe way to put the clone out after a blockstring is f4xxclone
you can't react and reversal BF2 to consistently punish d4 clone, and his d4 clone makes your df1 unable to reach. Sir, go watch high level players fail to punish d4 clone, I also try it in real matches but all I do is reversal ex BF2 after raw d4, and get punished. Come back here and tell me you can punish d4 clone 100% of the time
brawler has 2 hits of armor since the last patch on both grabs (one is oh and the other is an high)
if you see him move, grab and maybe reverse sides..then tell me how he's supposed to wakeup
are we still talking about the situation when GM traps Cassie in the corner after F12 hard knockdown into clone? Are you seriously thinking Cassie takes less risk than GM does when trying to get out of clone's corner trap?
 

shura30

Shura
you can't react and reversal BF2 to consistently punish d4 clone, and his d4 clone makes your df1 unable to reach. Sir, go watch high level players fail to punish d4 clone, I also try it in real matches but all I do is reversal ex BF2 after raw d4, and get punished. Come back here and tell me you can punish d4 clone 100% of the time
I didn't really saw any high level sub against high level cassie
if you have evidence, please show me

also it's not a matter of doing stuff 100% of the time, we're discussing options and cassie has them

an exercise that often helps me in a situation where I need more consistency is counting frames, add up the d4 into clone frames and try and tell yourself if it's possible to be consistent or not

you still want to talk about failure?
ok, say that you're not the most consistent player..unless you're completely unable to execute df1, the first hit always touches subzero so the clone goes away and cassie can still be safeish if you cancel into bf1
also, don't exactly remember right now if d4xxclone is one of those in which cassie can full df1 into exflip so always safe

in addition if we want to throw in real match scenarios, you might not need to challenge a pokexxclone everytime especially if sitting on a life lead


are we still talking about the situation when GM traps Cassie in the corner after F12 hard knockdown into clone? Are you seriously thinking Cassie takes less risk than GM does when trying to get out of clone's corner trap?
you are trying to evaluate the whole matchup on a single situation, the one where gm shines the most and where almost all roster doesn't have options

cassie's strenght is that she isn't supposed to fall for that so easily
again, not really interested in what the matchup numbers are
but if we are talking about options, cassie has them all
 

Scott The Scot

Where there is smoke, there is cancer.
Goro has always done great versus Cassie, but her changes over time alongside Goro's have made it notably worse. Compbros touched on a lot of points so I don't wanna reiterate everything, but Cassie's weak wake up game is huge, she is one of if not the easiest characters to oki for Goro. She's almost as vulnerable as Quan except Quan can keep people out, Spec ops isn't for any notable length of time and fireballs are so much better now with way quicker recovery and start up. I don't at all believe it's anywhere near 8-2 though as her footsies are still good and she can still low profile under some mids with her pokes, but she definitely is in for a harder time versus Goro. There's just not really a comfortable range for her to reliably play at as she loses at range, gets handled well on oki and up close, but she definitely can make some things happen with her set ups if she catches Goro without meter, I'd label it 6-4 MAYBE at worst 7-3, but it's probably not that lopsided.
Thank you! Are you talking about Tigrar specifically or all variations of Goro?
 

Wigy

There it is...
Goro does well against characters who are footsie rushdown dependent.

Cage a list matchup was probably 5-5 prepatch lol. Considering differences in tier it goes to show something.
 

Espio

Revered By Tarkata
Lead Moderator
Thank you! Are you talking about Tigrar specifically or all variations of Goro?
I can only speak for Hollywood and Spec Ops losing to Dragon Fangs and Tigrar. I have never played against Brawler and I don't use Kuatan Warrior so I cannot comment on that one, but I think it's fair to say universal tools are one of the main contributing factors.
 

Wigy

There it is...
I can only speak for Hollywood and Spec Ops losing to Dragon Fangs and Tigrar. I have never played against Brawler and I don't use Kuatan Warrior so I cannot comment on that one, but I think it's fair to say universal tools are one of the main contributing factors.
Hows the jc matchup these days? 6-4 goro i imagine? Never play goros

(Sorry not trying to derail thread just wondering)
 

shura30

Shura
I can only speak for Hollywood and Spec Ops losing to Dragon Fangs and Tigrar. I have never played against Brawler and I don't use Kuatan Warrior so I cannot comment on that one, but I think it's fair to say universal tools are one of the main contributing factors.
want to run some games in the near future? (aka tonight?) add me on psn..I'd like to see how this goro matchup goes
I've used holly against ktop/hdope's and I never got destroyed unless I did lack specific mu basics
 

Espio

Revered By Tarkata
Lead Moderator
want to run some games in the near future? (aka tonight?) add me on psn..I'd like to see how this goro matchup goes
I've used holly against ktop/hdope's and I never got destroyed unless I did lack specific mu basics
You can add Espio872 on PSN.

I don't think he destroys her, I just think he beats her so I wouldn't expect to be destroying anybody. 4-6 has always been very winnable and comes down to player skill.
 

x TeeJay o

Canary Cry Gapless Pressure
Moderator
From My Experience

Possessed Kenshi 5-5


Buzzsaw Lao 5-5
Tempest Lao 5-5(Maybe 6-4 In Her Favor)



War God Kotal 6-4
Sun God Kotal 6-4



Grandmaster Sub Zero 4-6 (Possible 5-5 Because Of IAG, But If Cornered By Him Then Ggs)

Tarkatan Alien 6-4
Acidic Alien 5-5 (Could Be 6-4 Because She Can Punish EVERYTHING He Does Even Exo Spray Which is -8. But The Acid In The Nuetral Can't Be Ignored)
Konjurer Alien 6-4


Master Of Storms Raiden 6-4

Boneshaper Shinnok 5-5 (Possible That It's Worse For Her, But I Haven't Played Boneshaper That Gave Huge Issues)

Impostor Shinnok- 0-10 Fuck This Character



Ninjutsu 5-5(Might Be A Little Better For Her)
 
Reactions: GAV

omooba

fear the moobs
why exactly does hollywood loose to gm. i assumed iags help alot in that match up and she has ex nutpunch
 

Scott The Scot

Where there is smoke, there is cancer.
Unbreakable MU?
I played this one with Braindead and I quite like it. I wanna say 5-5 because parry can be a good anti-B1 or frametrap tool, but it comes with the mind game of unparryable angle+1 punishing it. Cassie has an easy time punishing poorly spaced B2's from Sub which is handy. Feels pretty even to me.
 

Wigy

There it is...
I played this one with Braindead and I quite like it. I wanna say 5-5 because parry can be a good anti-B1 or frametrap tool, but it comes with the mind game of unparryable angle+1 punishing it. Cassie has an easy time punishing poorly spaced B2's from Sub which is handy. Feels pretty even to me.
His backdash is rather annoying, kind of negates a lot of her OKI. He has very good wakeup options, ex slide, backdash, ice parry etc find myself sitting scared to attack.

Played against a pretty good one earlier, hard to get on him with all the backdashing and shit. think i could do more if i wasnt scared to IAG vs the iceball.
 

Scott The Scot

Where there is smoke, there is cancer.
His backdash is rather annoying, kind of negates a lot of her OKI. He has very good wakeup options, ex slide, backdash, ice parry etc find myself sitting scared to attack.

Played against a pretty good one earlier, hard to get on him with all the backdashing and shit. think i could do more if i wasnt scared to IAG vs the iceball.
His backdash is very good but vulnerable to micro run~B1, just a part of the mix.

If he wakeus up EX parry, it's essentially the same as if he guessed wakeup overhead because the low beats it. If your meaty is perfect (mine never is, I'll admit) you can stuff parry or EX Parry.
 

Wigy

There it is...
His backdash is very good but vulnerable to micro run~B1, just a part of the mix.

If he wakeus up EX parry, it's essentially the same as if he guessed wakeup overhead because the low beats it. If your meaty is perfect (mine never is, I'll admit) you can stuff parry or EX Parry.
i just end up doing meaty jk's with brawler a lot of the time. slide goes under you and parry gets punished for like 40%, then u can start doing empty jumps into b1 when they backdash you.

Was short set so was working on my feet with that duno if its actually good advice.
 

Scott The Scot

Where there is smoke, there is cancer.
i just end up doing meaty jk's with brawler a lot of the time. slide goes under you and parry gets punished for like 40%, then u can start doing empty jumps into b1 when they backdash you.

Was short set so was working on my feet with that duno if its actually good advice.
Huh that's actually pretty smart, I'll implement that more I think. Cheers!

I normally do empty jump when I read Ermac is waking up with EX DB2 because it whiffs, you land on the other side and can punish with 242.