Match-Up Discussion - Cassie Cage Cassie Cage Community MU Chart/discussion

[Scott The Scot]

Here are three Google Spreadsheets that anybody can view, each containing the MU Chart for Cassie Cage vs the entire cast. The idea is that we can discuss her MU's in this thread and when we agree on a MU number, I will edit the Spreadsheet. Just tag me. Figured since that the end of the year is nigh, and that means MKX may die when Injustice 2 drops, that it's as good of a time as any to make this.

Cassie Cage MU Chart

DISCLAIMER: I have set ALL matchups to 5-5 by default just as a placeholder. If later down the line there are MU's that haven't been discussed at all and it says 5-5, don't be afraid to ask if it is really 5-5 or not and I'm sure somebody will tell you. If it causes that much of a problem for people, they can be removed. I will be making a log of every update I make though, so you can tell if the MU is just a placeholder 5-5 or and actual 5-5.

Originally it was going to be just a Brawler MU chart, then I decided that I might as well make all of them (copy and paste lol) so that's why there's three seperate charts rather than putting them in one spreadsheet. Lazy moi, haha. Plus I wasn't aware I could just

Lets get this discussion going!
@shura30 @RetroPhysic @SonicFox5000 @hayatei @WA iLuusions @lookgirlitsteejay @False God Confirmed @Nerobianco @GLoRToR @N-Zalo @B. Shazzy @Jer @Compbros @CompleteMadness @AK XEN0M0RPH @YoloRoll1stHit

 

[Scott The Scot]

I'll start off I guess. I think that Brawler loses to Grand Master and Boneshaper. Probably Hollywood and Spec Ops too but I have only played with Brawler in the latest version of the game.

 

[Compbros]

Brawler v. Grand Master may be 3-7. It's super ugly.

Brawler v. Boneshaper 4-6

Spec Ops v. Grandmaster 4-6

Spec Ops v. Boneshaper 5-5

Spec Ops v. Imposter slightly worse than 4-6

Hollywood v. Grandmaster slightly worse than 5-5 for Cassie.



That's what I've played so far.

 

[ATP2014]

Haven't played any Cassie's in this version, but my MU chart for Alien:

Acidic vs Hollywood: 5-5
Acidic vs Brawler: 5-5
Acidic vs Spec Ops: 5-5*

Tarkatan vs Hollywood: 4-6
Tarkatan vs Brawler: 4-6
Tarkatan vs Spec Ops: 5-5*

Konjurer vs all Cassie: 4-6

*Never played a competent Spec Ops, ever

 

[Compbros]

Haven't played any Cassie's in this version, but my MU chart for Alien:

Acidic vs Hollywood: 5-5
Acidic vs Brawler: 5-5
Acidic vs Spec Ops: 5-5*

Tarkatan vs Hollywood: 4-6
Tarkatan vs Brawler: 4-6
Tarkatan vs Spec Ops: 5-5

Konjurer vs all Cassie: 4-6

*Never played a competent Spec Ops, ever

What system do you play on?

 

[Professor Oak]

Hmmm.

 

[CompleteMadness]

Hollywood vs Grand-master 6-4 ( Iags stop all zoning instantly, goes right through clone. Makes it more neutral which Cassie beats SZ in neutral.) Brawler vs grandmaster may be a 7-3 ugly mu for brawler, no real way around clone.

Hollywood vs Leatherface 6-4

Hollywood vs Mournful 6-4(Guns will stop all morunfuls zoning, grants free run in or continue zoning.) Assassin 5-5 royal storm 5-5

Hollywood vs Scorpion(all variations) 5-5 May be 6-4 as well, but brawler is better in the mu because of Scorpions bad wake up options. Brawler can bully him after grab ender

Brawler vs scorpion(all variations) 6-4

Cassie (all variations) vs Ermac (all variations) 5-5

I think Impostor Shinnok is probably Cassie's(all variations) hardest mu. Could be 7-3

 

[Scott The Scot]

Brawler v. Grand Master may be 3-7. It's super ugly.

Brawler v. Boneshaper 4-6

Spec Ops v. Grandmaster 4-6

Spec Ops v. Boneshaper 5-5

Spec Ops v. Imposter slightly worse than 4-6

Hollywood v. Grandmaster slightly worse than 5-5 for Cassie.



That's what I've played so far.

Yep I can get behind those Brawler and Hollywood numbers.

Haven't played any Cassie's in this version, but my MU chart for Alien:

Acidic vs Hollywood: 5-5
Acidic vs Brawler: 5-5
Acidic vs Spec Ops: 5-5*

Tarkatan vs Hollywood: 4-6
Tarkatan vs Brawler: 4-6
Tarkatan vs Spec Ops: 5-5

Konjurer vs all Cassie: 4-6

*Never played a competent Spec Ops, ever

I can get behind Brawler beating Tarkatan 6-4. Need more experience vs Acidic though.

Hollywood vs Grand-master 6-4 ( Iags stop all zoning instantly, goes right through clone. Makes it more neutral which Cassie beats SZ in neutral.) Brawler vs grandmaster may be a 7-3 ugly mu for brawler, no real way around clone.

Hollywood vs Leatherface 6-4

Hollywood vs Mournful 6-4(Guns will stop all morunfuls zoning, grants free run in or continue zoning.) Assassin 5-5 royal storm 5-5

Hollywood vs Scorpion 5-5 May be 6-4 as well, but brawler is better in the mu because of Scorpions bad waake up options. Brawler can bully him after grab ender/Brawler vs scorpion 6-4

Cassie vs Ermac 5-5

I think Shinnok is probably cassies hardest mu. Could be 7-3

Can you be variation specific, please? Thanks

I think Brawler and Hollywood goes 5-5 with Master of Souls and Spectral.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

GM vs Hollywood 6-4 SZ
GM vs Brawler 7-3 SZ
GM vs Spec 6-4 SZ

 

[YoloRoll1stHit]

There's no way GM vs Spec is the same as GM vs Hollywood lol. rocket is horrible against midscreen clone, and losing the "immune to oki" wake up is huge for Spec Ops
My opinion for Cassie vs Mileena:
Cassie has D4 and B2 that can beat Mileena's B1 in neutral. Cassie's B1 is amazing for whiff punishing Mileena's pokes (they're very short and all lose to Cassie's D4). Talking about zoning only Piercing can significantly outzone Hollywood due to low sai, for other two variation Hollywood can sit on a life lead and play really lame (iag wins trade with sai so Hollywood is able to maintain the life lead). Because Cassie has good walk speed and Mileena doesn't have amazing mobility like Kitana, it's not hard for Cassie to get in. Mileena's oki basically doesn't work on Hollywood, but the other two variations don't have double armor moves. Cassie's F44 and DF1/F3 flip can easily break Mileena's ex roll on wake up, so if Cassie ends combo with 331 ender Mileena is doomed
And Ethereal's offense is a bill. ex fade is a waste of meter for no chip damage. Piercing does more chip damage to Cassie, Ravenous has a better, safer mixup on Cassie, Ethereal doesn't really know how to do when being out footsied so badly. Yea ex fade can be used to whiff punish stupid moves Cassie throws out, but what if Cassie plays smartly?
Hollywood vs Piercing 5.5 - 4.5, I feel like Holly has slight advantage
Hollywood vs Ravenous 5.5 - 4.5
Hollywood vs Ethereal 6 - 4
Brawler vs Piercing 5 - 5
Brawler vs Ravenous: 5 - 5.
Brawler vs Ethereal: 6 - 4
I have mixed opinion about Spec Ops. AlI I know is if SO players aren't careful about 112 regular rocket setup in the corner, Mileena can roll and punish it for free

 

[Compbros]

Hollywood vs Grand-master 6-4 ( Iags stop all zoning instantly, goes right through clone. Makes it more neutral which Cassie beats SZ in neutral.) Brawler vs grandmaster may be a 7-3 ugly mu for brawler, no real way around clone.

You have to be perfect with those though otherwise you're right into his pace. Go to high and he's got his zoning set up and can full combo punish you with a bar if he reads an IAGS. It's a lot of work on the part of the Cassie to counteract, not outdo but counteract Sub-zero's zoning.

There's no way GM vs Spec is the same as GM vs Hollywood lol. rocket is horrible against midscreen clone, and losing the "immune to oki" wake up is huge for Spec Ops

Rocket goes through clone and hits Sub-zero at the same time. Full screen once you see clone you can rocket and still have time to neutral duck ice ball. There's a lot more margin for error on Spec Ops than Hollywood. HW is better midscreen/in the corner against and Spec Ops is better full screen. A lot of the match will be spent full screen or in the corner. I don't think it's exactly the same, I think Spec Ops is slightly worse in the matchup, but it's not bad enough to warrant a full number lower.

 

[Compbros]

Oh yeah, Spec Ops v. Tigrar Fury 3-7, maybe even 2-8.

 

[YoloRoll1stHit]

Rocket goes through clone and hits Sub-zero at the same time. Full screen once you see clone you can rocket and still have time to neutral duck ice ball. There's a lot more margin for error on Spec Ops than Hollywood. HW is better midscreen/in the corner against and Spec Ops is better full screen. A lot of the match will be spent full screen or in the corner. I don't think it's exactly the same, I think Spec Ops is slightly worse in the matchup, but it's not bad enough to warrant a full number lower.

The problem is Sub can slide the regular rocket on reaction. It has too long startup and recovery. Any kind of movement Subzero does (like move, run, bach dask, jump, random ex ice ball, slide) is a threat for Cassie eating a full combo
Meanwhile iag is too fast for Sub to slide, and it can easily stop Sub from throwing ex ice ball trying to win the trade. iag is definitely better against the clone, and Sub generally

 

[CompleteMadness]

You have to be perfect with those though otherwise you're right into his pace. Go to high and he's got his zoning set up and can full combo punish you with a bar if he reads an IAGS. It's a lot of work on the part of the Cassie to counteract, not outdo but counteract Sub-zero's zoning

Once you get past execution barrier its very consistent. And iags can stuff ex iceball

 

[ATP2014]

What system do you play on?

PS4, but I'm taking a break from MK. Trying to get my SF game up to par.

Cassie can punish all of Alien's mixups pretty consisitently, but Acidic gains the edge in neutral and gets some semi-safe enders in Acid Spray and Acid Puddle. No instant-air guns also gives Acidic more chances to zone vs Brawler, but the added mixups with the OH tackle and command grab gives Brawler more options when up close.

 

[Scott The Scot]

Oh yeah, Spec Ops v. Tigrar Fury 3-7, maybe even 2-8.

Damn you're going to have to explain this one to me I don't understand that lol.

 

[ATP2014]

Also, here's my MU chart for War God:

War God vs Hollywood: 4-6
War God vs Brawler: 5-5 (potential 4-6)
War God vs Spec Ops: 5-5*

Cassie has always been able to punish all of War God's swords, and with the nerf to Kotal B1, make the up close game even.

*Again, no experience vs Spec Ops

 

[shura30]

Brawler loses to Grand Master.

Brawler v. Grand Master may be 3-7. It's super ugly.

to me, brawler is the best variation against grandmaster if not in general
any stringxxclone setup can be punished better than with other variations: df1xxtakedown
any stringxxclone can be grabbed either via takedown or bowbreaker and there's a degree of mind play there because of the startups/hit levels
and if you can stay in the right range, the clone isn't even an option
if cornered, 242 beats almost any clone into string setup (clone, 12 shatter or b2) and it's better to reverse sides with bowbreaker

holly can't do that better in the matchup..at some ranges the iags become useless because of the slide and exnut while invincible can still be baited and punished hard and it's a straightforward move

on a more general note on brawler vs hollywood I'd say that she might have an even or plus matchup if she does not die to her own setplay
if the opponent can wakeup or escape for free brawler isn't good (ethereal, scorpion)
if a projectile trade or full screen battle isn't in iags favour (kitana, teleports) brawler is better

 

[Compbros]

Damn you're going to have to explain this one to me I don't understand that lol.

Matchup is pure trash. No good wakeup against Goro's oki, punch walk does not care about Spec Ops rocket hard to blockables thanks to two hits of armor, beats her in zoning, depending on normal/string his flame can push you out of d4 range. There is basically no range in which she wins against him.

The problem is Sub can slide the regular rocket on reaction. It has too long startup and recovery. Any kind of movement Subzero does (like move, run, bach dask, jump, random ex ice ball, slide) is a threat for Cassie eating a full combo
Meanwhile iag is too fast for Sub to slide, and it can easily stop Sub from throwing ex ice ball trying to win the trade. iag is definitely better against the clone, and Sub generally

Again, that's midrange stuff which I already said is in Hollywood's favor. Long range if you do close rocket then slide will get punished if they're too late or whiff slide into cross over jip.

 

[Wigy]

What do people think of the sektor and kitana matchup? All variations.

 

[Scott The Scot]

Matchup is pure trash. No good wakeup against Goro's oki, punch walk does not care about Spec Ops rocket hard to blockables thanks to two hits of armor, beats her in zoning, depending on normal/string his flame can push you out of d4 range. There is basically no range in which she wins against him.

Lots of the cast have two or even three hits of armour now. Spec Ops must have gotten a lot worse. 2-8 seems super harsh though, man :/

 

[shura30]

What do people think of the sektor and kitana matchup? All variations.

hollywood loses the zoning war here too
knockdown/teleport against sektor, full combo against kitana unless your iag timing allow the second hit to stagger

to me, holly is better for sektor, brawler for kitana
also since we can 242 / flip any upclose fan, her pressure isn't that scary. we can flip 9/10 the exrising into float for an easy punish

I'd like someone with the right experience to give pointers to the smoke matchup
seem stupid to me

 

[Scott The Scot]

to me, brawler is the best variation against grandmaster if not in general
any stringxxclone setup can be punished better than with other variations: df1xxtakedown
any stringxxclone can be grabbed either via takedown or bowbreaker and there's a degree of mind play there because of the startups/hit levels
and if you can stay in the right range, the clone isn't even an option
if cornered, 242 beats almost any clone into string setup (clone, 12 shatter or b2) and it's better to reverse sides with bowbreaker

I usually opt for Brawler in the MU but I still think she loses slightly simply because of Grand Masters ability to shut down neutral - which is probably her best attribute. There isn't a safe way for Cassie to challange clone on block which can prove to be quite annoying when Sub is using EX Clone cancels or F4~Clone or after getting up from a knockdown. Sub gets to play his game in neutral more than Cassie and dictates the general pace of the match just because of clone. I personally have always thought since the update that Brawler loses 4-6. Definitely not easy or even imo.

What do people think of the sektor and kitana matchup? All variations.

I don't mind the Kitana MU very much if I'm honst but against Sektor is a tad rough because of his Missiles. I'm talking about Brawler only here.

 

[Scott The Scot]

I'd like someone with the right experience to give pointers to the smoke matchup
seem stupid to me

I think it's 5-5 for Brawler. I played Fiend Busa's Smoke and the MU seemed fine. It's pretty even and has a lot of mind games with gaps and EX Smoke Away since on a read you can punish. If he throws a Smoke bomb you can run and/or jump on reaction - you need to read if he'll do close Smoke Bomb but in that case if you read it and you're fullscreen then it's a free gunshot lol terrible risk reward though, just use the frames to jump forward and get in. Of course if Smoke whiffs B21 to get in, you can walk forward and whiff punish (universal punish, fyi) the 2nd hit with 242. This is for Brawler only.

For Hollywood... I haven't labbed the MU at all or played it. However I'm interested to know if iAG goes over Smoke Bomb, if so I can see the MU maybe being in HW's favour.

 

[shura30]

Sub gets to play his game in neutral more than Cassie and dictates the general pace of the match just because of clone. I personally have always thought since the update that Brawler loses 4-6. Definitely not easy or even imo.

ofc sub is an easier character for both execution and gameplan in most matchups
but cassie can deal with him even in neutral
df1 can be always used and ji4 jumps the clone beautifully
in corner with a clone up, you're screwed with most of the roster, Cassie definitely hasn't the hardest time especially now with 2hits of armor
midscreen you can make the sub respect df1/ji4 so all he has is to sit behind the clone launching useless iceballs and holly destroys that kind of subs

to me it might be a 5-5 for both braw and holly..it all comes down on how you want to play this matchup
if you got iag consistency and nerves, holly can force him into less clones/more silly iceball shooting
brawler doesn't really care about clone setups and once he gets tagged by ji4 he's at 40% less life for you to take away

I don't mind the Kitana MU very much if I'm honst but against Sektor is a tad rough because of his Missiles. I'm talking about Brawler only here.

technically, once sektor is down on the ground, he's not supposed to wake up again against brawler

I think it's 5-5 for Brawler. I played Fiend Busa's Smoke and the MU seemed fine.

the problem is the neutral itself against smoke
walking back b21 kinda kills the matchup for cassie and you can't always punish the second hit
need more experience tho..this fiendbusa any good?