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Captain Cold General Discussion Thread

Youphemism

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
Somea2V said:
Great summation, Youphemism. The only thing I would add, and this is just the nature of the character, is that he's very susceptible to matchup knowledge. The more your opponent has played the match up, the less effective your general strategy is going to be. As people play against you, much of the zoning, neutral and set ups will become much less mysterious, oppressive and overwhelming as the set goes on.

Now, every character suffers from this but people seem to really overestimate some of Cold's strengths.
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Being "susceptible to matchup knowledge" isn't a character weakness, if a person knows the matchup it's harder for any character.
 
Somea2V

Somea2V

Thread Referee
Youphemism said:
Being "susceptible to matchup knowledge" isn't a character weakness, if a person knows the matchup it's harder for any character.
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It isn't a weakness that can be balanced but I'd say some characters suffer from a knowledgeable opponent more than others.

For instance, pre patch Aqua or Bladam or current Batman and Superman can still do most of their game plan effectively even if their opponent knows the match up.

With Cold, I feel that you have to make constant adjustments as the opponent realizes the holes that are there. Not that that's a problem, no character should be brain dead. But some characters don't suffer from people knowing what they can do.
 
M.D.

M.D.

Spammer. Crouch walk hater.
Just change your gamertag to "SonicFox_something something" and people will suddenly start to:

* punish your d1-wall -18 with a jumpback or backdash
* get randomly and constantly hit by f23 db3 mb, it doesn't matter that there is no mixup
* only pick scarecrow, canary and flash against you so you can win free
* constantly walk into your mb db3 puddle thinking they can slow walk block it and getting hit by it every time
* suddenly switch to rushdown mode when playing fate or deadshot, so you can win free by outzoning them somehow
* lose with batman and superman against you because they're actually on life support in a gorilla brain-level state and they need to play the game just to keep their brain cells active but without straining them too much.

Then you can finally see how the character is god tier.
 
Somea2V

Somea2V

Thread Referee
M.D. said:
Just change your gamertag to "SonicFox_something something" and people will suddenly start to:

* punish your d1-wall -18 with a jumpback or backdash
* get randomly and constantly hit by f23 db3 mb, it doesn't matter that there is no mixup
* only pick scarecrow, canary and flash against you so you can win free
* constantly walk into your mb db3 puddle thinking they can slow walk block it and getting hit by it every time
* suddenly switch to rushdown mode when playing fate or deadshot, so you can win free by outzoning them somehow
* lose with batman and superman against you because they're actually on life support in a gorilla brain-level state and they need to play the game just to keep their brain cells active but without straining them too much.

Then you can finally see how the character is god tier.
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Dude, you're down spiraling. I know we went through this crap in the Cage community but acting like crazy, exaggerating fools won't help.
 
M.D.

M.D.

Spammer. Crouch walk hater.
I appreciate that but the sad part is everything I said happened in tournaments vs Sonic Fox.

I mean, there is literally no exageration there. I would have liked to be trolling as usual but seriously everything happened like that.

If I would have had the time I would have added timestamps for each affirmation to several tourney matches but unfortunately i'm swamped at the moment.

The only one I know of for sure is Semij with cat woman suddenly deciding to walk into ALL puddles and lose the match in the tournament. He did it 5 or 6 times, he was literally testing the matchup in the tourney match.
They were practically doing training mode mid tourney, and announcers and people were going berserk at how op and good cold is.

AND IT IS THAT KIND OF ATTITUDE THAT IS GOING TO CHANGE ARROUND HERE
 
Somea2V

Somea2V

Thread Referee
M.D. said:
I appreciate that but the sad part is everything I said happened in tournaments vs Sonic Fox.

I mean, there is literally no exageration there. I would have liked to be trolling as usual but seriously everything happened like that.

If I would have had the time I would have added timestamps for each affirmation to several tourney matches but unfortunately i'm swamped at the moment.

The only one I know of for sure is Semij with cat woman suddenly deciding to walk into ALL puddles and lose the match in the tournament. He did it 5 or 6 times, he was literally testing the matchup in the tourney match.
They were practically doing training mode mid tourney, and announcers and people were going berserk at how op and good cold is.

AND IT IS THAT KIND OF ATTITUDE THAT IS GOING TO CHANGE ARROUND HERE
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Oh, I wasn't talking about the examples. Yes, surprisingly those things happen (and I find myself regretting not going to tournaments) but I meant the god tier and Sonic Fox comments.

This community is full of toxic shit. But the more level headed people will see how absurd those examples and that Fox largely gets away with things unless we act like spoiled children mocking claims of god tier status.
 
Youphemism

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
Somea2V said:
It isn't a weakness that can be balanced but I'd say some characters suffer from a knowledgeable opponent more than others.

For instance, pre patch Aqua or Bladam or current Batman and Superman can still do most of their game plan effectively even if their opponent knows the match up.

With Cold, I feel that you have to make constant adjustments as the opponent realizes the holes that are there. Not that that's a problem, no character should be brain dead. But some characters don't suffer from people knowing what they can do.
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Again that's not a character weakness. People knowing the matchup helps for any character. You can take advantage of the flaw in a character the same way the other person can take advantage of a flaw in your character. And making adjustments mid match is also not a character flaw, that's just a general part of fighting games for any player and any character. Some characters having a simpler playstyle isn't a Cold weakness.
 
Somea2V

Somea2V

Thread Referee
Youphemism said:
Again that's not a character weakness. People knowing the matchup helps for any character. You can take advantage of the flaw in a character the same way the other person can take advantage of a flaw in your character. And making adjustments mid match is also not a character flaw, that's just a general part of fighting games for any player and any character. Some characters having a simpler playstyle isn't a Cold weakness.
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You're right. I feel like I didn't speak very accurately or clearly, and that's on me.
 
Bender

Bender

Product Manager. xBone tag: I3end3r.
Youphemism said:
Well his neutral game isn't the greatest, most of his strings start high (one of them has ALL high hits) so with no fast overhead to force them standing you have to rely on F2 quite a lot since it's his main mid but F23 is neutral on block and hit confirmable so it's not too bad. Having so few strings also means you're using this most. His anti air is great though so at least if you can force the opponent to jump smoehow you have a good option most of the time. Obviously he struggles against some of the stronger zoners in the game like Deadshot/Fate/etc since outside of mb roll his anti/counter-zoning is ok and they don't care about your level 2 trait game as well. Outside of that damage is fine, great 6 frame poke, decent frame data in terms of block advantage and he has plenty of dirty dirty setups of course.
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Thanks! I played another 4 - 5 hours of CC last night and I'd add that BA low lightning is bs against CC's db2.

Also his level 2 trait gets wrecked by clash.

I'm liking his neautral, but he has a hard time catching backdashes (I'm not really sure what to use)
 
Youphemism

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
Bender said:
Thanks! I played another 4 - 5 hours of CC last night and I'd add that BA low lightning is bs against CC's db2.

Also his level 2 trait gets wrecked by clash.

I'm liking his neautral, but he has a hard time catching backdashes (I'm not really sure what to use)
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If they backdash you can dash up yourself if you read it, or BF1 or DF2 or just use it to charge trait.
 
Bender

Bender

Product Manager. xBone tag: I3end3r.
Youphemism said:
If they backdash you can dash up yourself if you read it, or BF1 or DF2 or just use it to charge trait.
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I tried bf 1 and forward dash on read - somehow I got punished lol - I guess my reflexes are too slow.

I'll try trait charge next time
 
Bender

Bender

Product Manager. xBone tag: I3end3r.
This is probably known, but I've found some great push block tech for a freeze combo when:

1. Opponent goes for a jump in over a mb db3.
2. Opponent pressures CC in front of a level two trait.

I have some videos, but I'm being lazy lol
 
D

Deleted member 5032

Guest
How can people not see this character for the turd that he is? He's a gimpcicle. He's got some amazing matchups, but that doesn't make him any less of a poor man's Firestorm.

I honestly think he has nothing but 7/3 matchups! He either totally dominates his opponent because they have to deal with puddle, or they totally dominate him because they get to ignore puddle.

"But what about his sick-ass zoning, you know-it-all-pessimist" you belt in anger and frustration. And to that I say, "Great, go fight a Green Arrow or WoWo and get back to me. Better yet, have a go at Beetle, Red Hood, Superman, Deadshot, Ivy, Starfire, Supergirl, Fate, Firestorm, Darkseid, or...Bladam and get back to me about that awesome zoning." Go ahead and spend precious seconds tinkering around with your trait, eating projectile after projectile, trying to make your snowballs fly faster. Oh no!

"But what about his sick-ass defense?" you blurt, almost reflexively. And to that I say, "Firstly, learn an adjective besides 'sick-ass'. There are literally dozens to choose from! Secondly, what good is defense when your opponent doesn't have to come to you? Don't get me wrong, his defense is amazing vs certain characters, but those tools become a total non-issue in most matchups."

"Offense?" you squeek, not even sure of your own question. And to that I say, "Michael Jackson has been reincarnated as this video game character because he is straight up moonwalkin... His walk speed and floaty jumps make him a big juicy target for zoners and rushdown characters alike. He ain't chasing down nobody who don't want to be chased down. Which sucks since he has to chase down anyone with a half-decent projectile."

And this all, of course, is assuming your name is not Sonic Fox. Otherwise, please disregard.
 
foxof42

foxof42

Thanksgiving corner game, going ham and stuffing
Nerve Shredder said:
Is there a Discord.

Also what do you guys do when someone just walks up, twerks, and blocks your puddle?
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Yes, I think there's a thread with a link, just Google it.

And I think "damn, why do I play this character?" Srsly though, depends on the MU but camp on your puddle, especially against Flash, Canary, and Cheetah. Not behind. ON. I still think that it qualifies as a glitch and should be patched. But then, there's a lot that I want for this character. Functional puddle too stronk?
 
N

Nerve Shredder

Noob
foxof42 said:
Yes, I think there's a thread with a link, just Google it.

And I think "damn, why do I play this character?" Srsly though, depends on the MU but camp on your puddle, especially against Flash, Canary, and Cheetah. Not behind. ON. I still think that it qualifies as a glitch and should be patched. But then, there's a lot that I want for this character. Functional puddle too stronk?
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It said the link was expired.
Thanks for the tips!!!
 
foxof42

foxof42

Thanksgiving corner game, going ham and stuffing
Idk, guess we'll have to throw down with some awky as hell mirrors and find out.
 
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