Can You React To A 18 Frame Over Head?

[MrSunshine]

I've been hearing this discussion for quite some time (Since the shinnok overhead was added and again with smoke) that an 18f over head can be reacted towards.



I believe its more of a read than reaction and some confuse the two.. but I could be wrong

 

[WarlordRenegade]

Don't think so, not unless you are specifically looking for it dude

 

[Derptile]

I can

Inb4 called bullshitter.

 

[Mikemetroid]

I would say yes. Ultimately it its determined by the character's meta.

 

[Red Reaper]

Depends partly on the animation but yes.. It's one of those things where you have to partially be looking for it...

But it's obvious when you should be looking for it... When they're at plus frames and you are forced to respect them.

 

[PlatypusVortex]

I can but I'm the best fighting game player alive sooo...

 

[I GOT HANDS]

Here's where people get confused, it's really not JUST the frames, it's dependent on what frame the overhead becomes recognizable. If for example, your overhead made you leap off the ground by the second frame, and every other move you had stayed grounded, most people would be able to react to this every time. The thing is there is varying levels of ambiguity, so there is no blanket answer, some 18f moves will be reactable, some will be indistinguishable for up to say the first 12 frames which makes it a LOT harder to react to. I voted YES because it is possible of course for some moves, but it's by no means the standard and I think in MKX a lot of 18f overheads are pretty much unreactable (or I just suck)

 

[Daemantalo]

Not at all admittedly. My reactions kick in pretty well with certain OHs though.

Mix-ups tend to kill me though, but I'm working on my blocking fundamentals.

 

[MadeOfMetal]

Reacting to anything below 20 frames is impossible. but a read is always possible.

didn't we allready prove this with the Millia Blocker?

the brain takes 1/4 of a second to transfer visual q's and longer to react to them.

sound is faster.

but lets face it, last time we tested this @SonicFox5000 could only get 19frames reaction time.


here it is again if you wanna try and post them below:

http://www.teyah.net/MilliaBlocker_v0.3.swf


and i might add when he got 19 it wasn't consistent, but he did the best from what i herd

@MrSunshine
can you add this reaction test into the OP so everyone can test it and post below?

 

[Prinz]

I can

Inb4 called bullshitter.

Bullshitter.

 

[Tweedy]

I think average reaction speed is like 16 frames, but that's if you're only looking for one thing. When you're looking for two things, in this case an overhead or low, anything under 20 frames is likely impossible.

 

[SaltShaker]

Everyone gets caught with 18f or slower Takeda OH, Jin OH, etc. I've seen the best players get hit fairly often. Seen Slayer hit Sonic with F2 enough times lol. Only things I don't see the best players get hit with are really slow moves like Scorpion OH kick or Mileena F3. 18f? 20f? All the time. There are so many things you have to watch out for in the heat of battle that you can't just fully switch your brain. How would Alien ever land some of his best mixups if people were really reacting that fast?

Reacting is dropping a cup out the cabinet unexpectedly and catching it before it falls. Reacting is not blocking an OH you partially were guessing would come. You aren't gonna be sitting on low block in full anticipation of a low that someone keeps doing, and then "react" after visually seeing TriBorgs 18f OH.

Read or read/reaction, but it isn't a pure reaction at that speed in a competitve fighting game.

 

[juicepouch]

If you have to be looking for it I don't think it counts as a reaction

 

[Ns_Brutalmileena]

If you ever got hit by mileena's f3 you ain't blocking 18 frames from a visual lmao

 

[hayatei]

If you are looking for more than one thing it's very very very hard to react to an 18 frames overhead

 

[dwz_mk9]

Sometimes I feel I can, but in those high tense situations anyone can get hit by anything. The example if like to point out is the WoundCowboy and Forever King FT10. King got hit by plenty of overheads, but I'm sure he's reacted to it in other sets and tournaments. Is it reactable? Yes. Is it reactable 100% of the time? No.

 

[M.D.]

You can't. Subzero is broken.
And yes you forgot Subzero b2 there

Also, you can't. Everyone who thinks they can, they are actually looking for it and do a read, not a reaction.

Everyone who says they can are bullshiting, or a cyborg.

 

[Zoidberg747]

 

[Zatoichi]

Only if I'm expecting it, otherwise no.

 

[MadeOfMetal]

Everyone gets caught with 18f or slower Takeda OH, Jin OH, etc. I've seen the best players get hit fairly often. Seen Slayer hit Sonic with F2 enough times lol. Only things I don't see the best players get hit with are really slow moves like Scorpion OH kick or Mileena F3. 18f? 20f? All the time. There are so many things you have to watch out for in the heat of battle that you can't just fully switch your brain. How would Alien ever land some of his best mixups if people were really reacting that fast?

Reacting is dropping a cup out the cabinet unexpectedly and catching it before it falls. Reacting is not blocking an OH you partially were guessing would come. You aren't gonna be sitting on low block in full anticipation of a low that someone keeps doing, and then "react" after visually seeing TriBorgs 18f OH.

Read or read/reaction, but it isn't a pure reaction at that speed in a competitve fighting game.

isnt triborgs B1 14 frames? EDIT: it was changed to 18 now!

B2 for cyrax 35frames? hella reactible and it beeps 5 times before hit

but anyways yeah impossible to block 18 frames on pure reaction, esp in this game when there are multiple OH's, Low's and Tick throws that you have to watch out for.


just off the top of my head!

Unreactible Oh's and Lows in this game and Specials

Mileena:
F4=15
F21B4=13 (or EXroll after F21)
21=13
21U4=20 ive seen the best get hit by this when mixed up properly
B21=16
EX roll=16
Roll=8

Sonya:
B1=12
B3=14
B14=14
B332=15

Cassie:
F3=15
1=13
BF3=17

Johnny Cage:
F3=11 (since it goes into frame trap which leads into mixup)
F2=15
113=12
Bd3EX=11 (restand that allows followup mixup)

Erron Black:
F1=16
F13=13 (lol thats what game says)
B3=14

Cyrax:
B1=18 (said 14 at kp2 launch)OH
B1 2+4= 17 OH, OH
F1=8 mid
F13=13 low
all bombs are super punishable and reactible
DD3=106
DF3=106
DB3=106
DD2=106
DF2=106
DB2=-106
all metered bombs are punishable
all 15 frames atartup, but there is a gap between starter cancel bomb.

Alien:
B3=18 low cancelable
F4=17 OH
12=12 low (first hit is 8 frames)
B1=9
B113=11 low low cancelable
F34 iffy since first hit is 21 frames
BF4=18
(air)BF4=16
DB3=14
BF2=15 mid(starter to mixup)
BF2~2 = 15 into 24 (unreactible because you dont know which one)
BF2~4 = 15 into 20 (unreactible because you dont know if its OH or LOW)


basically the list goes on. almost every character has an unreactible OH or low, and now the ones that don't have a tick throw!

Reads are a big part of this game and we all must realize, we are not reacting most of the time. we are making reads based of tendencies, game play, most likely moves to be used in conjunction and so on!

 

[oaoo94]

Me being a Shinnok player I react to the overhead pretty consistent when I mirror someone. His overhead is pretty slow compared to the 7 Frame low. I usually look for the animation since Shinnok lifts his leg up pretty high before actually doing the overhead. Same thing with Subs B2.

 

[MadeOfMetal]

Me being a Shinnok player I react to the overhead pretty consistent when I mirror someone. His overhead is pretty slow compared to the 7 Frame low. I usually look for the animation since Shinnok lifts his leg up pretty high before actually doing the overhead. Same thing with Subs B2.

thats not reaction, thats a read or educated guess, or when a player only uses so many moves and telegraphs what move to come out, you then block that move like you are reading it.

Try using this and getting an average of 18 frames on the overheads!

there is only 3 oh moves on that and a couple low moves.
if you could read them you would be able to recognize an oh from a low before pressing the button. basically the same thing as seeing a move come out then pressing block.. you will find out like i did. that you are mostly pressing before the move comes out on a read to block most of MKXL's oh's and lows



http://www.teyah.net/MilliaBlocker_v0.3.swf

 

[SaSSolino]

it's hard, but possible.

 

[Bomborge]

thats not reaction, thats a read or educated guess, or when a player only uses so many moves and telegraphs what move to come out, you then block that move like you are reading it.

Try using this and getting an average of 18 frames on the overheads!

there is only 3 oh moves on that and a couple low moves.
if you could read them you would be able to recognize an oh from a low before pressing the button. basically the same thing as seeing a move come out then pressing block.. you will find out like i did. that you are mostly pressing before the move comes out on a read to block most of MKXL's oh's and lows



http://www.teyah.net/MilliaBlocker_v0.3.swf

Its a reaction. Hes essentially fuzzy guarding against the overhead since it is significantly slower to the low. This is why the delayed low works very well for shinnok.

 

[Vjeekes]

I've been hearing this discussion for quite some time (Since the shinnok overhead was added and again with smoke) that an 18f over head can be reacted towards.



I believe its more of a read than reaction and some confuse the two.. but I could be wrong

MK is displayed in 60 frames / sec
Being able to see a 18 frames move and reacting on in withing less than 1/3 of a sec sounds kinda hard te realise.