Can scorpion win a major by himself?

[Big Pampering]

D4 is not bad lol. He actually needs his d4 or his pokes would be quan chi status basically. Also u can cancel d4 into leg takedown or ex spear if someone likes to jump after it. It can also be used to set up scorpions standing 1 AA if they jump. Before u comment on something, think about everything something can do before u say it is bad.

Ok you can do d4 into takedown. people block that and youre putting yourself at disadvantage. its not a bad tool but you really don't want to do that against the likes of jc, jax, sonya, quan chi, liu kang or anyone who has a great rushdown that can fuck scorpion up. I was just saying that it is not good compared to other d4's. And the d4 on block was my mistake, I dropped scorpion for a while to learn other characters and I just feel that a regular d4 has so much use compared to his d4.

And about the d4 antiair into vortex, I posted that months ago, so I know what his d4 is capable of

D4 ex spear is a good move but with risks. the reason D4's are good is because they are really safe and its kind of different with scorpion. Its just disagreed on the fact that when you mentioned a few good points scorpion had, d4 was included was included in one of those, because it has its uses but its nowhere near the d4's that are really good.

And you dont need to get mad at people for trying to discuss stuff, you can just state your opinion like any regular dude would have.

 

[Prinz]

lately people say it isnt possible to win with just one character no matter who you pick. And his d4 is not good... its neutral on HIT. and negative on block. the range is the only thing that is good and since you dont get anything good out of it instead of 3% it kind of sucks.

If the opponent knows your d4 is 0/negative on hit/block, he will most probably try to advance after you do it, which means, looking at the frame data (canceled d4 +24 on block and +18 on hit), you get a free takedown which links after a blocked d4 and has 3 frames of gap after d4 on hit (only armored moves will go through). The takedown puts you in a favorable range. A blocked takedown may be a problem, but if the opponent respects your d4 just because you have the takedown option it shouldn't be blocked. This is all theory of course, but may take you somewhere.

 

[Prinz]

If you ask me, Scorp has about a 50% chance at winning.

lol 50% of getting everything or 50% of losing everything.

 

[Espio]

This new trend doesn't mean it's impossible to win a big major with one character, difficult does not equal impossible, the thing is as I said earlier, will anybody be bold enough to do it?

The winds seem to be flowing in the direction that even 6-4 matches should be counterpicked as well, even though they're totally winnable on the basis of why work harder for the win? I guess that's a logical argument, but what it comes down to is what people want to do, learn the match up inside and out or take the easier solution.

There's nothing wrong with having a team of characters, even people who don't counterpick play more than one character and might be feeling another character at a different time, there are times where I refuse to play anybody other than Jade, even though I mostly play Stryker.

 

[bipolar_shango]

If the opponent knows your d4 is 0/negative on hit/block, he will most probably try to advance after you do it, which means, looking at the frame data (canceled d4 +24 on block and +18 on hit), you get a free takedown which links after a blocked d4 and has 3 frames of gap after d4 on hit (only armored moves will go through). The takedown puts you in a favorable range. A blocked takedown may be a problem, but if the opponent respects your d4 just because you have the takedown option it shouldn't be blocked. This is all theory of course, but may take you somewhere.

Looking too deeply into frame data causes too much theory fighter. Remember Sonya's "OP" Cartwheel? Its -3 on block! So y people no punish? ... Because the fastest normal in the game is 6 frames therefore its basically safe.

 

[Prinz]

Looking too deeply into frame data causes too much theory fighter. Remember Sonya's "OP" Cartwheel? Its -3 on block! So y people no punish? ... Because the fastest normal in the game is 6 frames therefore its basically safe.

Because they don't try to. If I'm not mistaking, it gives the opponent a free jump. I'll test it later.

 

[bipolar_shango]

Because they don't try to. If I'm not mistaking, it gives the opponent a free jump. I'll test it later.

"Stand to Jump state" is 3 frames not the full Jump sooo... Eat my standing 1/ crossup D1 biatch . All the -3 disadvantage will do is make my 7 frame jab 10 frames (3+7). Am i bothered? Nahhhh.. You were talking about Sonya right ? The same goes for Scorpion (eat a "1" to the face). His 1 is 7 frames right?

In my eyes, anything with less than 6 frames disadvantage is fine (especially if spaced) all you lose is your pressure on the opponent.

EDIT: Just checked, Scopions "1" is 12 frames maybe he can use his "3" then.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

nobody will ever win another major (significant major) with only one character ever again, let alone scorpion.

too many great players and solid character counters

I could see a KL player like UFG being able to win with just 1 character. But thats KL... and UFG...

 

[Prinz]

"Stand to Jump state" is 3 frames not the full Jump sooo... Eat my standing 1/ crossup D1 biatch . All the -3 disadvantage will do is make my 7 frame jab 10 frames (3+7). Am i bothered? Nahhhh.. You were talking about Sonya right ? The same goes for Scorpion (eat a "1" to the face). His 1 is 7 frames right?

In my eyes, anything with less than 6 frames disadvantage is fine (especially if spaced) all you lose is your pressure on the opponent.

EDIT: Just checked, Scopions "1" is 12 frames maybe he can use his "3" then.

Yeah, Scorpion has pretty bad jabs. Anyway, I'm just looking for an answer to your -3 cartwheel. Your 10 frame 1 is high, which leaves you open to down pokes. So if you guess wrong, eat a d4-takedown biatch I don't think you can react to a jump over/out in time to do standing 1 and be at exactly 10 frames

 

[bipolar_shango]

Yeah, Scorpion has pretty bad jabs. Anyway, I'm just looking for an answer to your -3 cartwheel. Your 10 frame 1 is high, which leaves you open to down pokes. So if you guess wrong, eat a d4-takedown biatch I don't think you can react to a jump over/out in time to do standing 1 and be at exactly 10 frames

Dash forward, D4 cartwheel, 11114 reset biatch . Queen Sonya = Options for days

 

[Prinz]

Dash forward, D4 cartwheel, 11114 reset biatch . Queen Sonya = Options for days

Maybe you're right.

 

[Scoot Magee]

Ok you can do d4 into takedown. people block that and youre putting yourself at disadvantage. its not a bad tool but you really don't want to do that against the likes of jc, jax, sonya, quan chi, liu kang or anyone who has a great rushdown that can fuck scorpion up. I was just saying that it is not good compared to other d4's. And the d4 on block was my mistake, I dropped scorpion for a while to learn other characters and I just feel that a regular d4 has so much use compared to his d4.

Take down may be disadvantage on block but you have options certain characters have to respect after, kinda like sonya with her cartwheel. For instance against JC, if he blocks a take down EX spear will beat anything he does besides jump, d4, d1 (which besides jump lose to armor take down) and block. If you read a block you can continue pressure, if you read a jump you can NJP and if you read any type of pressure you can get an EX spear. In order to win scorpion needs to take risks like this, not just in the vortex. Armor take down after take down is your safest option but costs meter obviously.

Really if you can limit JC's options after a blocked take down to d+4, d+1, jump and block it's going to help you a lot in the match up. You have to show other players you don't care and you will throw out unsafe shit, in turn they will respect it.

I'm by no means trying to make an argument that scorpion is good. He is ok at best but has a lot of problems in a lot of match ups. I for one think the match up chart is bull shit and scorpion is not 5-5 across the board. The vortex is really all he has in a lot of matches.

edit

Since d+4 xx take down jails you can get people to respect the take down and trow out more d+4 and maybe provoke a jump or 50/50 from max d+4 range with f+4 or b+2.

 

[Prinz]

You have to show other players you don't care and you will throw out unsafe shit, in turn they will respect it.

lol I think this is what Scorpion is all about.

 

[Treadmill]

He absolutely could. Likely? No. But just like everything scorpion does, its a coin flip. He could blow you up first match then get blown up the next match. He IS risk/reward.

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[GamerBlake90]

Slips did come close to securing a major win with Scorpion, didn't he? Except if Frosty Faustings was not a major, and I'm kinda sure it wasn't, then it doesn't count and Scorpion hasn't even come close. If it is indeed a major, then...yeah. Someone clarify this for me if you can.

I started out as a Scorpion player when MK9 hit the scene, but he quickly got demoted to the role of a utility character because of how risky he is. This isn't to say he's not solid, but unless you are godlike with the mind games (and this not only includes his 50/50s but also how much you make the opponent respect your options), you won't give players trouble with him.

I don't even recommend trying to win a major using only Scorpion. Bring at least one or two back-ups.

Scoot Magee - good post there.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

Ok you can do d4 into takedown. people block that and youre putting yourself at disadvantage. its not a bad tool but you really don't want to do that against the likes of jc, jax, sonya, quan chi, liu kang or anyone who has a great rushdown that can fuck scorpion up. I was just saying that it is not good compared to other d4's. And the d4 on block was my mistake, I dropped scorpion for a while to learn other characters and I just feel that a regular d4 has so much use compared to his d4.

And about the d4 antiair into vortex, I posted that months ago, so I know what his d4 is capable of

D4 ex spear is a good move but with risks. the reason D4's are good is because they are really safe and its kind of different with scorpion. Its just disagreed on the fact that when you mentioned a few good points scorpion had, d4 was included was included in one of those, because it has its uses but its nowhere near the d4's that are really good.

And you dont need to get mad at people for trying to discuss stuff, you can just state your opinion like any regular dude would have.

No one is getting mad, i'm just telling you that you can't just make comments without mentioning what something does or it sounds like you just completely trashing it. If I was truly mad, I'd call you a scrub and say you have no clue what you are talking about. Don't think because I said state a comment with all info that I'm being mad, it's more telling you think before you speak because you said d4 negative on block and it isn't and I know he has troubles vs jc and etc., but that doesn't mean his d4 is "not good" like you said in your first comment.

 

[Espio]

I know there's a lot of talk about Scorpion being too risky, but he doesn't have to be played that way. For example, if I was to land a Scorpion vortex, I don't ever go for his risk full combo options, I either do 3,3,4 or 1,1,1, or throw or I do that overhead kick(forget the notation, don't play him enough), but I'm pretty sure that overhead kick is safe on block and pushes them back.

Scorpion can get in the upper 30-40% off of his BNB and if he wants, keep the pressure going in safe ways, so the vortex game is useful, but only if you like taking risks off reads.

 

[GamerBlake90]

I know there's a lot of talk about Scorpion being too risky, but he doesn't have to be played that way. For example, if I was to land a Scorpion vortex, I don't ever go for his risk full combo options, I either do 3,3,4 or 1,1,1, or throw or I do that overhead kick(forget the notation, don't play him enough), but I'm pretty sure that overhead kick is safe on block and pushes them back.

Scorpion can get in the upper 30-40% off of his BNB and if he wants, keep the pressure going in safe ways, so the vortex game is useful, but only if you like taking risks off reads.

The overhead kick is f3, and it is indeed safe on block. Not much pushback, though.

 

[Scoot Magee]

I know there's a lot of talk about Scorpion being too risky, but he doesn't have to be played that way. For example, if I was to land a Scorpion vortex, I don't ever go for his risk full combo options, I either do 3,3,4 or 1,1,1, or throw or I do that overhead kick(forget the notation, don't play him enough), but I'm pretty sure that overhead kick is safe on block and pushes them back.

Scorpion can get in the upper 30-40% off of his BNB and if he wants, keep the pressure going in safe ways, so the vortex game is useful, but only if you like taking risks off reads.

Sure you can play him the safe way, get a life lead and build some meter with 111 pressure ect. The thing is in some matches all it takes is the other player to get in 1 time to win. Sure scorpion is good at point blank range when he is the one dishing out the pressure, once that gets turned around he is fucked. Really in a match like that (sonya for instance) it's risky to play the "safe" way, even more risky than it would be to go for his 50/50 every time because you are giving her more of a chance to get in on you. You can lose the match from blocking a single jump in punch...

 

[Slips]

You can play it safe with Scorpion but playing it safe means he's not doing much damage. Doing f3 or f4~takedown and 111 pressure is nice, but against characters with brutal rushdown like Cage, Jax, Sonya ect. since they are 'in' once those moves are blocked or poked out of these becomes pretty risky as well with a reward thats kinda whatever.

In order for him to do significant damage and launch his opponent, he's gotta take risks. Most characters have safe launchers or safe strings that are hit confirmable to launchers. Scorp doesn't have that so he's gotta fly by the seat of his pants when the opportunity presents itself.

If you were twice as good as the competition, then yea Scorp could win a major. But this game is turning into a game of footsies...and Scorpion isn't too strong in that department which is a major problem.

If he had a normal d3 or if f3 was faster, then he'd at least have average footsies and this conversation might be a little different.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

You can play it safe with Scorpion but playing it safe means he's not doing much damage. Doing f3 or f4~takedown and 111 pressure is nice, but against characters with brutal rushdown like Cage, Jax, Sonya ect. since they are 'in' once those moves are blocked or poked out of these becomes pretty risky as well with a reward thats kinda whatever.

In order for him to do significant damage and launch his opponent, he's gotta take risks. Most characters have safe launchers or safe strings that are hit confirmable to launchers. Scorp doesn't have that so he's gotta fly by the seat of his pants when the opportunity presents itself.

If you were twice as good as the competition, then yea Scorp could win a major. But this game is turning into a game of footsies...and Scorpion isn't too strong in that department which is a major problem.

If he had a normal d3 or if f3 was faster, then he'd at least have average footsies and this conversation might be a little different.

very true, he's going to need some better footsies and pokes to deal with the rushdown monsters like cage.

 

[Scoot Magee]

He really needs more range on his 33. If it had just slightly more range you could punish blocked d1's with 33 fucking spear. It would also be easier to deal with some characters d4. Also d3 being -7 on hit makes no fucking sense to me.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

He really needs more range on his 33. If it had just slightly more range you could punish blocked d1's with 33 fucking spear. It would also be easier to deal with some characters d4. Also d3 being -7 on hit makes no fucking sense to me.

Agreed, his d3 needs to be at least neutral on hit or it is trash basically, and yeah his 33 needs more distance for sure.

 

[XBlades]

depends on how you play man! you can win with anyone, it all depends on how much bs you can get away with.

 

[Saint]

Agreed, his d3 needs to be at least neutral on hit or it is trash basically, and yeah his 33 needs more distance for sure.

the range is fine, I'd rather have them change it to 9 frames start up so he could combat some rushdown pressure