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Cage info for Cage players

Playpal

Warrior
F3 gives random +9 on crouch block, but this ONLY AFFECTS JUMPING. You can still poke out of the next block string.

The recovery of F3 is very different on hit then on block. F3 on hit recovers much faster. Try learning to hit confirm F3 into a quick follow up block string.

Sweep allows for the next attack to hit OTG, meaning you can get a standing reset. There's no real way to take advantage of this unless you anti-air with it, and anti-air sweep isn't a good idea.

http://testyourmight.com/threads/johnny-cage-meter-building-data.14817/ Meter building data

The second hit of F33 ex force ball will whiff midscreen against ermac and reptile. (recommended 13 ex force ball)

The second hit of F33 ex force ball will whiff in the corner against Reptile, Ermac, kitana, jade, sindel, shang tsung, skarlet and quan chi.


The first hit of F33B3 ex force ball in the corner will whiff against reptile. (recommended 114 ex force ball)

Nut punch is a high crush. It is invincible to all moves that hit high.

Ex nut punch seems to have different invincibility properties to wake up attacks. You can be thrown out of ex nut punch, and I don't think ex nut punch beats xray (wake up attack avoids both).

Ex nut punch seems to have similar invincibility properties as raiden's teleport since you can be thrown out of start up.

21F2 is the only overhead that works on delayed wake up.

First 2 frames of xray has invincibility. This is bad because JC cannot parry on this frame.

Certain moves done beyond sweep range will beat out xray. http://testyourmight.com/forum/showthread.php?11039-Johnny-Cage-Tech-101-X-ray-properties

xray parries wake up attacks.

xray parries EVERYTHING within range. Including ice clones, bombs, projectiles, etc.

Second hit of F32 whiffs against Quan Chi on low block.

Second hit of F33 will whiff on crouch block if you're too far away.

Second hit of F33 will always whiff on crouch block vs reptile, noob saibot, mileena, sektor, johnny cage, kano, kabal, baraka and quan chi.

First and third hit of 11f1 will hit on all crouch block characters after a nut punch. Exceptions apply to kabal, sektor, quan chi, mileena, reptile and kano, where the third hit will always whiff. This also works after ex fb in the corner.

List of characters where third hit of 11f1 will always land AFTER doing a F3/21. For some characters listed, the third hit will whiff after blocked ex fb. Also for some characters you must follow up with 11f1 quickly. The number in brackets indicate which part of the string gets blocked. All the characters in the "midscreen" list will also work in the corner.

Midscreen: Scorpion (23), Kung lao (23), liu kang (13), ermac (13), nightwolf (23, 90% of the time), jade (13), stryker (13), jax (3), raiden (13), shang tsung (13), sheeva (13), skarlet (23), kenshi (13), rain (13), Freddy (23)

Corner: sub zero (23), scorpion (13, 23), sonya (23), freddy (13)

Projectiles that can be ducked under with nutpunch:
Scorpion: spear and ex spear
sub zero: ice ball
reptile: spit
ermac: force ball and ex force ball (both only during start up of nut punch)
noob: ghost ball (only during start up of nut punch)
smoke: nothing
rain: water bubble (only during start up of nut punch)
mileena: sai (only during start up of nut punch) and ex sai
kitana: fan and ex fan
jade: mid boomerang and high boomerang
skarlet: kunai and ex kunai
sektor: missile and ex missile
cyrax: ex saw (costume doesn't matter)
csz: ice ball (only on start up of nut punch)
kenshi: teleflurry
freddy: glove toss and ex glove toss
sindel: high fire ball (only during start up of nut punch)
sonya: ring toss
jax: energy wave and ex energy wave
JC: second hit of ex force ball (first hit depends on distance)
stryker: gun shot and grenade toss (depends on distance)
liu kang: high fireball and ex high fireball
kung lao: hat toss (if not angled downwards) and ex hat toss (distance doesn't matter)
kano: knife toss and ex knife toss
nightwolf: arrow
kabal: gas blast and ex gas blast
baraka: spark and ex spark
shang tsung: forward skull (only during start up of nut punch)
quan chi: skull ball and ex skull ball
raiden: lightning ball (only during start up of nut punch) and ex lightning ball (same thing)
sheeva: fire ball and ex fireball

List of characters who can cause wake up attacks to whiff (flip kick and ex flip kick have the same hit box):
Scorpion: sweep whiffs all
Liu kang: sweep whiffs all
Kung lao: sweep and D3 whiffs all
subzero: sweep whiffs all, D3 whiffs flip kick and ex shadow kick
sindel: nothing
ermac: D3 whiffs all
reptile: sweep and D3 whiffs all (sweep especially), D4 whiffs flip kick and ex shadow kick
kitana: sweep and D3 whiffs all, standing 3 whiffs nut punch
Johnny Cage: nothing
jade: D3 and sweep whiffs all (sweep especially)
mileena: D3 whiffs all, D4 whiffs flip kick ex shadow kick and nut punch
nightwolf: sweep whiffs flip kick and ex shadow kick
cyrax: sweep and D4 whiff all, D3 whiffs nut punch
noob: sweep whiffs nut punch, ex nut punch and flip kick, D3 whiffs flip kick and ex shadow kick
smoke: sweep whiffs flip kick, ex shadow kick and nut punch, D3 whiffs flip kick and ex shadow kick
sektor: sweep whiffs both nut punches

This list will probably never get completed, since there are so many attacks that alter spacing and hit box that can cause wake up attacks to whiff. A lot of attacks that can cause wake up attacks to whiff need good timing, making safe meaty pressure difficult.

If you have any questions about anything on here feel free to ask.
 

aj1701

Champion
Good stuff [MENTION=7704]Playpal[/MENTION]. I need to get this level of knowledge about Kitana.

Its kinda crazy that blocked F33 exball strings build so much meter... I noticed that as I was blocking you got an entire bar back.

Also, it seems like its possible to poke between the last hit of the string and the exfb, but I couldn't do it consistently. Is it possible, or was I just getting lucky? If it is, at what point would you recommend trying to poke out?
 

Dizzy

False Information Police Officer
Elder God
NetherRealm Studios
F3,2 whiffs on crouch blocking mileena as well, on second hit.

Kind of stupid and useless but I believe this happens on kratos as well. Even worse, F3,3 on STAND blocking kratos, the 2nd and 3rd hit whiff. Kratos is JC's worst match up I think :p
 

Mikemetroid

Who hired this guy, WTF?
Lead Moderator
Xray Parries EVERYTHING as long as you are close range.

Even Sub-Zero's clone on wake up(only in corner). Or say if Cyrax did a close bomb and stood on top of it blocking and you did your xray it would parry.
 

Playpal

Warrior
[MENTION=5550]aj1701[/MENTION] whether you can poke out of a string before ex force ball depends on the string. F33 jails into ex force ball on stand block. F33B3 ex force ball can be poked out mid screen.

[MENTION=2494]Dizzy[/MENTION] I tested this and the block stun from F3 causes F32 to land. If it weren't for the block stun, the second hit would whiff.

[MENTION=5216]Mikemetroid[/MENTION] did you check the link I posted? Watch the vid and you'll know what I mean.

EDIT: fixed a spelling mistake regarding F33 ex force ball in the corner.

SECOND UPDATE: F33 on certain crouch block characters.

THIRD UPDATE: 11F1 on crouch block characters.
 

Dizzy

False Information Police Officer
Elder God
NetherRealm Studios
Cool stuff, i've been thinking of making a thread where I can post a bunch of random JC stuff I may not remember or things that others may not know.

Even on 2nd hit whiff of F3,3 I am pretty sure that it still jails. I am not at home right now so I can't test it but, I checked it a few months ago.
 

Playpal

Warrior
Cool stuff, i've been thinking of making a thread where I can post a bunch of random JC stuff I may not remember or things that others may not know.

Even on 2nd hit whiff of F3,3 I am pretty sure that it still jails. I am not at home right now so I can't test it but, I checked it a few months ago.
I tested too, what happens is that after the first hit the opponent briefly stands up and when they take the third hit they go back into crouch. I think what's happening is that there is one unjailed frame since crouching has a 1 frame start up and it looks like the standing animation is getting snuffed out. For the most part, we won't have to worry since armor moves get snuffed out on the first frame. Xray probably doesn't suffer from meter drain glitch but even then it's pretty damn hard to input it on one frame.
 

NariTuba

disMember
Thank you Playpal, great idea combining all of this in one place. Definitely learned some things myself.

Id like to see a list of setups; a compilation of those is about the only thing missing from the TYM cageopedia.

Such as if you rep 21f2, you can then go into 21, f33ExFB.

Or how to properly use f4
 

Playpal

Warrior
Thank you Playpal, great idea combining all of this in one place. Definitely learned some things myself.

Id like to see a list of setups; a compilation of those is about the only thing missing from the TYM cageopedia.

Such as if you rep 21f2, you can then go into 21, f33ExFB.

Or how to properly use f4
This is where I want to post more technical stuff about JC. If you want to learn how to use him, just post in the Ask JC thread send me a PM or watch some vids.

BTW, if anyone has any requests I'd be happy to try and help.
 

Playpal

Warrior
[MENTION=2494]Dizzy[/MENTION] so I tested the unjailed frames of F33 on crouch blocking JC. I was able to activate xray to interrupt the string, but every time I did, the xray would not parry. I tested with mileena's xray and she would not take damage from the third hit of F33. I also tested with JC's ex nut punch, occasionally I would experience the meter glitch. This leads me to believe there are 1-2 unjailed frames.

[MENTION=3937]Somberness[/MENTION] you said that the meter glitch happens on the first frame of an ex move. Maybe it happens randomly on the first frame?
 

Somberness

Lights
@Somberness you said that the meter glitch happens on the first frame of an ex move. Maybe it happens randomly on the first frame?
It could be that if you are holding block when it happens, then you will start blocking instead. Testing it with an unblockable move instead of trying to figure out how fast you let go of block seems like the best idea.
 

Playpal

Warrior
Fuck it, I'm not gonna finish the whiffed wake up attacks list. I've updated it but I'm probably not gonna go any further.
 

Marvaz

come at me
Im testing some stuff out that i could add to this list. Other than that, good stuff playpal.
 

Playpal

Warrior
Here's some borderline useless info I added:

I tested if ex nut punch was invincible to jax's ex ground pound, which it is. I tested because I thought that maybe JC's ex nut punch had the same invincibility properties as OTG invincibility, but apparently this is not the case. This leads me to believe there are 3 different types of invincibility: special invincibility (ex nut punch, cyrax teleport), wake up attack invincibility and OTG invincibility. I haven't tested if cyrax's teleport has similar invincibility to ex nut punch, i'll have to do more testing.
 

TrickyNick

Weather Man
hey guys dont know if this has been said yet, but i went into training with cage to fight reptile cause i have the most trouble with him then anyone. It always bothered me when my ex forceballs couldn't connect due to his weird hit box so tried a different way.

Do you guys think that 4,4 ex forceball after a jump punch is a good strategy. I tested it and found that it does hit reptile because the 4,4 created enough space between the two for them to hit which in turn you can still follow up with another one or f3,2. If he trys to dash after 4 he eats the forceballs, but the problem is he can duck the forceballs, well duck one anyway.
 

Playpal

Warrior
hey guys dont know if this has been said yet, but i went into training with cage to fight reptile cause i have the most trouble with him then anyone. It always bothered me when my ex forceballs couldn't connect due to his weird hit box so tried a different way.

Do you guys think that 4,4 ex forceball after a jump punch is a good strategy. I tested it and found that it does hit reptile because the 4,4 created enough space between the two for them to hit which in turn you can still follow up with another one or f3,2. If he trys to dash after 4 he eats the forceballs, but the problem is he can duck the forceballs, well duck one anyway.
iirc 44 ex force ball doesn't jail, so he can duck and punish. At point-blank the second hit of ex force ball is high.
 

TrickyNick

Weather Man
iirc 44 ex force ball doesn't jail, so he can duck and punish. At point-blank the second hit of ex force ball is high.
Can rep punish it though? If he ducks one and trys to dash the second hits. if he blocks and one forceball goes over his head does cage have the time to block before the dash?
 

Playpal

Warrior
Can rep punish it though? If he ducks one and trys to dash the second hits. if he blocks and one forceball goes over his head does cage have the time to block before the dash?
The second hit of ex force ball will whiff, meaning yes he can punish. 44 ex force ball is just not recommended at all.