General/Other Buff Wish List

[Mood4food77]

she has way more than one 27 frame overhead....

her f3 is a half screen overhead that counter's the fuck out of single hit projectiles (basically anyone that isn't deathstroke), her f13 has an overhead that can lead into play doctor which is really hard to react to

her cupcake bomb is overhead and has multiple hits, her air shot is an overhead, etc....

her high-low game is fine

 

[Burgesssssss]

Blocked f1, then a connected 3, followed by PD is 17%, 23% if MB, and puts you at neutral. I don't think 17% percent at a time is very efficient. The f1 also being a high hitting mid (If that makes sense) means it gets wrecked by d1s a lot, due to your opponents hitbox lowering. Say you land a d1, but didn't combo to Tantrum, landing the d1,3 even with hit advantage is incredibly hard to do.

And about the f3. I wasn't saying I didn't have answers to zoning. Her f3 is exactly like all other moves when she's not face to face, stand block, all day. When you and your opponent are within footsies range, they can low block all day. The f3 in that instance goes right over them. Walk back and f3 you say? Opponent reads Harley walking backwards and stand blocks all her attacks once more.

And yes cupcake bomb is an overhead, but misses your opponent when doing it from anywhere that isn't 3/4 screen.

I don't see face to face Oopsy Daisies being practical either, as I wouldn't wanna risk a full combo on a blocked gunshot, just to hit a crouch blocking opponent to do 4%.

 

[xWEBSx]

Blocked f1, then a connected 3, followed by PD is 17%, 23% if MB, and puts you at neutral. I don't think 17% percent at a time is very efficient. The f1 also being a high hitting mid (If that makes sense) means it gets wrecked by d1s a lot, due to your opponents hitbox lowering. Say you land a d1, but didn't combo to Tantrum, landing the d1,3 even with hit advantage is incredibly hard to do.

And about the f3. I wasn't saying I didn't have answers to zoning. Her f3 is exactly like all other moves when she's not face to face, stand block, all day. When you and your opponent are within footsies range, they can low block all day. The f3 in that instance goes right over them. Walk back and f3 you say? Opponent reads Harley walking backwards and stand blocks all her attacks once more.

And yes cupcake bomb is an overhead, but misses your opponent when doing it from anywhere that isn't 3/4 screen.

I don't see face to face Oopsy Daisies being practical either, as I wouldn't wanna risk a full combo on a blocked gunshot, just to hit a crouch blocking opponent to do 4%.

I agree with much of what you said.. It can be a rough match for someone who knows how to block.. Which is why I have no problem staying back w/Harley.. Letting them come to me and punishing

 

[Burgesssssss]

Yeah, it seems it's very match-up specific. She's not quite a zoner, she's not quite a rush down character ( A bit like Green Lantern I guess), but depending on the match-up, it seems she has to change her play style in order to get the win.

Against zoners, I activate rushdown Harley mode, and against rush down characters, I find myself checking with gun shots and punishing. Although versatility would seem to be a good thing, it means she's okay at everything, but excels at nothing, except sliding and having bad traits... She's pro at them.

Also, @ Mood4food77

Despite what in-game frame data may tell you, a blocked f1,3 is not +2. It's at least -6, which means it can be full punished by the majority of the cast. Another reason why it's bad. Sad times.

*EDIT* Upon some testing, the f1 isn't even a real mid. Flash can simply crouch underneath it. And since it isn't blocked it can't even be cancelled into TS. I'm sure other characters with small hitboxes can also just crouch it. The more I investigate, the worse Harley's becoming D:

*EDIT* Lex can also crouch it so it seems it's actually a high. I just thought it was a hitbox thing, but it seems it is infact a high.

*EDIT* In game data says f1 is a high. I could have sworn it used to say it was a mid. My bad. Another reason not to use it then I guess. Gonna whiff on crouch block, and is unsafe if the 3 is blocked.

 

[Zyns]

Aside from obvious stuff (dat trait), I'd love to see tantrum 1 hit overhead :3

 

[Fergus]

A faster F+2 with more range would be an amazing start as her mixups are terrible as of now imo.

I think that's all she really needs imo.

 

[redeyes]

better win pose
More clash quotes. so fucking tired of hearing "BATTER UP"


to the guy saying block high vs harley if shes not close yea block high eat dat chip dmg all day. (also J3 is +8 = free pressure if they block high)
f2 is a fine mix up everyone is always low blocking vs her so it works fine. if they read it and block high cancel it into 3 or is it F3? so youre +10


she needs no buffs she is the most well rounded person in the game.
not best but most well rounded.

Mix ups
Good zoning. (high gun shot, ex cupcakes, pop pop, OH pop pop, unblockable pop pop, Jumping gun shot)
pretty good amount of safe strings.
her sweep is +3 on block holla.
only down side is the trait but give it time and people will find set ups for it. so stop downplaying it right now.

shes perfect as is.

 

[Fergus]

I don't think she has good mixups though, you can easily block low within b2,2 range and react to her f2/f+3 overheads, I've played someone today offline and he consistently blocked it, it was really hard to open him up with Harley. f+2 definitely needs a speed/range buff if she's gonna be a mixup character with b2,2/overhead.

I didn't know her sweep is +3, that'd be a nice frame trap to go for b2,2.

 

[Burgesssssss]

redeyes

Obviously block low if she starts a series of pistol shots. Thought that was a given. But everything else is so easy to react to, especially from zoning distance. With Cupcake Bomb she turns around before throwing and Pop Pop she steps back. They stick out like a sore thumb in comparison to her pistols shots, where she steps forward. As for J3, sure it's plus on block, but for characters with competent AAs, it's practicality comes into question.

I totally agree that she is a prime example of a well rounded character. She is capable of a little bit of everything and her tools would be solid in any other game's ruling of what makes a character viable. She's Liu Kang. However, by this game's standards, she just cannot compete with the top chars. Everything she can do they can do better, or do one thing so well it negates their poor performance in other areas. I'm aware every fighting game will have it's tier lists. I'm simply pointing out that due to her problems, she's not winning any tourneys any time soon.

Don't get me wrong, I love playing Harley and will keep doing so no matter the obstacles. It's just discouraging to work so hard and lose to other players who have to work so much less, just because their characters are better equipped.

 

[redeyes]

I don't think she has good mixups though, you can easily block low within b2,2 range and react to her f2/f+3 overheads, I've played someone today offline and he consistently blocked it, it was really hard to open him up with Harley. f+2 definitely needs a speed/range buff if she's gonna be a mixup character with b2,2/overhead.

I didn't know her sweep is +3, that'd be a nice frame trap to go for b2,2.

2,D3 is +11 block
or untechable knockdown on hit

 

[Fergus]

I must use that move more, +11 on block is crazy.

 

[Burgesssssss]

Getting the 2 out in a foosties game is so unreliable though. Especially with Harley's Sektor arms d1. I only ever use 2,d3 off a blocked jump in. D1's plus 15 on hit, but 2 has a 15 frame startup, so there's really no way to successfully hit confirm into it.

 

[dotunderscore]

I'm simply pointing out that due to her problems, she's not winning any tourneys any time soon.

I unfortunately agree at this point - she is good enough to give hope but like Skarlet in MK9 it takes a ninja to do well at the high levels. I hope we at least see more of her in tourneys (I think we will) than Skarlet

 

[Eshi]

Well. I've gone to two tournaments so far, ReSe and Battle and Brew monthlies in Atlanta. ReSe had 18 entrants while the monthly had 35. I made 4th and 5th place respective. Half of those losses were to my roommate because tournament organizers don't seed, lol. I always felt that I lost because I didn't know a match-up well enough yet and never because Harley held me back, so I absolutely do think that Harley can take a major. Once, you know, normal players catch up to testers. -_-

 

[redeyes]

Well. I've gone to two tournaments so far, ReSe and Battle and Brew monthlies in Atlanta. ReSe had 18 entrants while the monthly had 35. I made 4th and 5th place respective. Half of those losses were to my roommate because tournament organizers don't seed, lol. I always felt that I lost because I didn't know a match-up well enough yet and never because Harley held me back, so I absolutely do think that Harley can take a major. Once, you know, normal players catch up to testers. -_-

& everyone stops sleeping on her.

 

[Saint Connor]

2,D3 is +11 block
or untechable knockdown on hit

I have a hard time believing that is +11.

 

[Eshi]

I have a hard time believing that is +11.

it is. the animation can be canceled extremely early into another move. It's extremely good, practically nerf-worthy.

 

[Red Son]

Just make a decent anti-air option to her and we are good. More than that can made her a new Jax, and I don't want that at all.

 

[Saint Connor]

it is. the animation can be canceled extremely early into another move. It's extremely good, practically nerf-worthy.

Just because it is cancelable doesn't make it +11. I'll check into this in a little bit.

 

[xWEBSx]

Just make a decent anti-air option to her and we are good. More than that can made her a new Jax, and I don't want that at all.

Her AA options are fine as is. In fact, she has one of the best AA.. The ability to make someone miss.

 

[Red Son]

xWEBSx Where is it? I need to know, I've been playing her wrong all that time.

 

[xWEBSx]

xWEBSx Where is it? I need to know, I've been playing her wrong all that time.

Quick back dash.. Silly Slide to go under jump ins. Harley is not the character you want to stay firm with.. She is not the hunker down, here comes the blitz, defensive monster.. She is quick, mobile, and you need to pay attention to spacing while using her. Not to mention.. Proper spacing plus B3 is OUTSTANDING AA.. That Mallett goes from ground Waaaaay up over her head.

Upward guns
Cupcake bomb
B3
Neutral Jump 2
Silly Slide
MB B3

Harley has MANY AA options.. Not a 1 move rules them all AA, but very situational and spacing dependent AA.

When all is said and done.. Be happy she has these options... Many have WAY worse.

 

[Red Son]

Upward guns can't be done in reaction, cupcake bomb needs the proper distance as needs her b3, neutral jump 2 is a good option, but many air to air will blow that off, such as Joker's ji3, Green Arrow's ji3 and Deathstroke's df3, just to name a few. MB B3 is almost an universal anti-air, I can be missing someone here cause I don't know all the cast yet. That Silly Slide thing is really clever though, it was nice u warned me about it, I never saw it in this forum, I didn't search at all too, shame on me. Thanks bro.

 

[xWEBSx]

Upward guns can't be done in reaction, cupcake bomb needs the proper distance as needs her b3, neutral jump 2 is a good option, but many air to air will blow that off, such as Joker's ji3, Green Arrow's ji3 and Deathstroke's df3, just to name a few. MB B3 is almost an universal anti-air, I can be missing someone here cause I don't know all the cast yet. That Silly Slide thing is really clever though, it was nice u warned me about it, I never saw it in this forum, I didn't search at all too, shame on me. Thanks bro.

No problem man.. Also.. The universal AA that is 100% for every character is block high
It's just the follow up that you need to concern yourself about.

Watch your spacing.. Don't be afraid to get the hell out of dodge with a few back dashes.. What's the opponent going to do? Keep jumping at you to catch up? Please.. That is how you lure poor people into a huge punishment.. Keep jump following me by jumping.. Your about to get smacked with my J2, or B3 .. DEPENDING on my spacing and punished! A good player will not keep following you w/jumps.. Therefore your mission is a success.. You did not get hit w/ jumping attack

 

[Red Son]

Yeah that's right, if I can Silly Slide under I can create a good space to b3 or cupcake AA