Bring back unique "Amplify" inputs (for tournament mode)

[Under_The_Mayo]

I was excited by the idea of unique inputs for our "Amplify" moves. It means you'll never accidentally do one, and it also means you gotta put more time into your mains to learn them. It could also cut down a little bit of the counter picking in tournaments.

So, I know some people wanted the simplified version, and they got it. Fine. But we didn't even get to TRY it. So, how about leaving it as an option, and then we talk about requiring them for competitive play. You could still use the simple version casually and online, but competitively you gotta learn your inputs.

What do you guys think? (yeah i know i mistyped "they" as "them")

 

[trufenix]

Do you think they just have nothing else to do? The mob spoke. It's over.

 

[Law Hero]

I think it's pointless. The unique amplify method adds a little bit of uniqueness to each character, but that's it. Changing this around for tournaments means nothing.

 

[Pterodactyl]

I could care less about tournament rules, I just think they were fun and I want the OPTION to be able to do them.

As huge fan of Ravenous Mileena’s gameplay, the idea of being able to play every character that way excited me.

 

[Under_The_Mayo]

I think it's pointless. The unique amplify method adds a little bit of uniqueness to each character, but that's it. Changing this around for tournaments means nothing.

I think it does. I think it's obvious the idea behind the design was that you have to know more inputs for your preferred character, which means it isn't as easy to jump around the character list in professional play if you don't learn it all. I liked the idea.

 

[Kal]

Why tho?

 

[Law Hero]

I think it does. I think it's obvious the idea behind the design was that you have to know more inputs for your preferred character, which means it isn't as easy to jump around the character list in professional play if you don't learn it all. I liked the idea.

It's nothing that five minutes in training mode won't solve. There's hardly a difference between pressing a shoulder button to amplify, and mashing X. In fact, mashing is probably easier. Needing to learn a small handful of extra inputs will not in any way, shape, or form deter people from counterpicking at all in tournament. Unique inputs just add a little flavor to the gameplay. I like unique inputs, and I think they should be an option, but nothing of value is lost in tournament.

 

[Gamer68]

I think the option is fine, but it shouldn't be required. It would be weird if in other modes you can use a universal button, but in "Tournament" play (does this count Ranked?) you have to use the unique inputs.

But I must say, do we really need ANOTHER one of these threads. We already have the thread about the change, then M2Dave's thread, now this one. I don't really think there's anything new that can be added.

 

[Rathalos]

No.
This is the kind of thing that's all or nothing.
Either it's how the game is played or it's not.
And NRS choose.

 

[coolwhip]

For the life of me I still don't understand why this is such a controversial issue. It's so minor, I honestly didn't think there's any way people would care this much that they made them universal.

 

[RoboCop]

No thank you

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

I think it does. I think it's obvious the idea behind the design was that you have to know more inputs for your preferred character, which means it isn't as easy to jump around the character list in professional play if you don't learn it all. I liked the idea.

I'm not understanding how people think a few inputs hinders players from learning other characters.
Time is the only obstacle to learning multiple characters not different inputs on amplifiers.

I don't know if you remember this but there was a few characters in MKX that had unique input for enders like Mileena Ravenous.
She has to press U,U,2 or D,D,2. Ect

This did nothing to stop players from learning her. Top players used characters like guys used condoms. I has most of her stuff learned in a few days after learning another character fully it was easy to transition.
What made things hard was character specific Tek like:
Predator HQT LCs or Cassie's IAGS's or matchups and frame data for all of them.
A few inputs won't do anything to stop tier whores I promise you.

I would be ok with allowing the OPTION for them but I wouldn't require them for those that like things the way they where. Obviously NRS decided this was the best way.

If you are wanting depth then let's get some OS on strings, crushing blows or amplified specials.

 

[MadPropz101]

No

 

[xWildx]

No.

 

[lionheart21]

I'd have no issues in there being an option for the unique Amplify inputs, whether it was tournament or not.

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

If you add an option on poll to say yes but also allow the option for MB amp (RT/R2) in both tournament and casual I'd say yes. I'm not against having the option but the way it's worded it seems like you are saying have it changed to Extra Input for amp.
If it said "Yes with Option for either, in or out of tourny" I'd be fine with it.

 

[Sablicious]

If people look at the video here, and then consider the move-specific "Amplify" input scheme proposed -- in the context of what is being implied by even the casuals who have had hours of hands-on with the game (i.e., that the gameplay feels shallow and limited) -- perhaps the logic behind adding some complexity to proceedings may become more evident... or not. ¯\_(v_v)_/¯

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

Pass.

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

If people look at the video here, and then consider the move-specific "Amplify" input scheme proposed -- in the context of what is being implied by even the casuals who have had hours of hands-on with the game (i.e., that the gameplay feels shallow and limited) -- perhaps the logic behind adding some complexity to proceedings may become more evident... or not. ¯\_(v_v)_/¯

I don't think we need to worry much about that until better players have weeks in the lab and get to use the finalized version of the game in all it's complexity.

It's a pre beta version that should feel incomplete because it is. Besides most of the videos of casuals claiming there is no combos or complexity are not good people to take advice from.
1. It's an early access build that can change completely.
2. Complexity can be added in many other ways like OS.
3. Individual inputs really won't have that much impact on depth.

I'd rather we see how the game turns out before advocating change on a game that has yet to roll out BETA and first balance changes.
People like Maximilian Dood and others who do decent on fighters of all kinds where brought into NRS and WB to test it and give input on the look and feel and gameplay. Max said his piece to NRS and so far it has seemed like NRS is receptive of feedback when we consider changes made to Cassie, Sonya and Scarlet and even Baraka.

I don't think we can accurately reflect on game mechanics and universal tools until we have at least a month to figure everything out. 4 hours is nothing, I've never heard a player honestly say they mastered a character let alone the entire cast, crushing blows, optimal BNBs and the new style in under 1 day or (1/16th of 1).

Think of it this way if MKX came out and I played for 4 hours and said Mileena/Predator has no combos or Mileena is bottom Tier and I need a buff. I'd be lit on fire by the community that's because it's not possible for us to realistically learn everything. Even in MKX some thought they mastered a character like Kitana and they felt she was lacking until players like Sonic cane along several months down the road showing her to be a top character when used correctly.

We should give the game more time before judging it. I'm all for adding depth down the road once we get our feet on the ground.

 

[KRYS9984]

The change to having a universal amplify button is fine and having unique inputs for each special attack wasn't necessary in my opinion. The argument that it requires players to learn specific character inputs thus making them harder to use and promoting less pocket characters is also not 100% accurate.

The ideal way to go about this is to make games harder and characters more difficult to use; this will definitely promote character loyalty / specialists and will have an effect on particularly higher level play.

A casual player can learn one or two characters proficiently and I'm sure that's more than enough to keep them engaged; most of these players just want to repeatedly use special attacks and basic combo strings so "depth" doesn't really make a difference to them, it all looks the same.

Higher level players can potentially learn more characters but when you implement a certain level of difficulty / skill required, it's possible that their tertiary pocket character will have a harder time fighting someone's main even though the match-up is skewed in their favor. Make the game too easy to appeal to the aforementioned player and all of a sudden you promote loads of pocket characters / counter-picking.

Another small issue I have with amplified specials (since we're on the topic) is the self regenerating meter; once again, there is less skill required when you make it too easy. Giving out free meter is a crutch for bad play and careless use of resources.

 

[M2Dave]

As I stated in the podcast thread, I would support an "accessible mode" with one button special moves, combos, and fatalities for casual gamers while "competitive / tournament mode" would necessitate traditional, or more complex, inputs for high level players.

Also, while I appreciate this thread, the poll will be unable to generate accurate data because of the recent emigration of casual gamers to TYM. If you make the same poll half a year after Mortal Kombat 11's release when the casual gamers move on to play another game, you will acquire data from a more informed audience.

 

[Crusty]

no

 

[Burn2019]

Your “no-one should be allowed to try” is needlessly combative, but answering the question in good faith, the “amplify”’command unnecessarily complicated. It doesn’t add anything of value, and I’m glad they changed the system to be an EX move instead like MK9 / X.

 

[Krankk]

1. When you make a poll, make sure it doesn't look and sound biased. It's not a good look and not a great invitation to discuss stuff.

2. Unique Amplify inputs don't add any real depth to the game. Having to memorize stuff has nothing to do with execution, decision making or other fundamentals.
It makes picking up other characters more annoying, because you have to memorize unique inputs and new Krushing Blow requirements.
If you don't play the game for a good while, you end up forgetting some of the new inputs and have to start the memorization process all over.

3. If they make the option selectable, absolutely none of you white knights would play with unique amplify inputs turned on. You would feel like you have a competitive disadvantage over people, who use easy inputs. And you too would get annoyed by the memorization aspect of it all.

This really is just some people being super defensive about it, because supposedly some "casuals" didn't like it. Some "casuals" are ruining the game.
Legit the only people being outspoken about this that I've seen, where some of the old drama queens like Tom Brady and m2dave. I've seen many more players asking for simple inputs.

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

Another small issue I have with amplified specials (since we're on the topic) is the self regenerating meter; once again, there is less skill required when you make it too easy. Giving out free meter is a crutch for bad play and careless use of resources.

I agreed with everything up to this part. All though I respect your opinion I have to disagree here:
I feel meter not being connected to certain styles of gameplay like MK11 is an overall good thing which could promote better neutral instead of players locked in rushdown mode or spamming projectiles to build meter like MKX which in turn favors characters that excelled in these areas which creates a certain level of gap in the rosters overal balance.

The meter not rewarding spamming or constant pressure should promote back and forth. Forcing players to make good reads and use good footsies maybe even make other styles of play more relevant.

I feel like we should give this new mechanic a chance for at least a few months before asking for change. Let's see what results we get in tournament play.