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Breakers vs Breakaway on a metered system

What will MK1 Run with?

  • Breaker

    Votes: 37 67.3%
  • Breakaway

    Votes: 3 5.5%
  • Hopefully neither

    Votes: 15 27.3%

  • Total voters
    55

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
Well the NRS allows you to escape as you are taking a hit, that's pretty unique, not saying it's the only one, but it's pretty rare.
Yes i know Killer instinct does something similar but even then, there was always a counter mechanic to it even on earlier days.


Geras, then Liu Kang, Then Jacqui, at some point Cetrion, Sheeva and now it seems Fujin.

The defensive meter for those characters at some point was solely for one purpose, to break out of combos, as it refueled on its own, the attacker never had to worry about management, and on any mistake they made, due to how opressive they were during the lifspan of the game, allows their meter to stay filled for longer periods of time, which by the time they get hit, they can just escape and make the situation null basically, over and over.


Mileena in MKXL was awesome and took full advantage of the breaker system, you literally couldn't touch her has her normals were so strong, does it ring a bell? maybe a rooftop day it's a nice hint back in MK9.


That's false, as much as devs are devs and i do respect the time they take to bake a game, they are also humans, until a game reaches the masses, you will never know every single variant of your game no matter who you are, that's a hard fact.
It didn't stop kabal to be dominant in the game by picking rooftop day and spamming gas blast against the majority of the cast
didn't stop cyrax to be a TOD character despite being nerfed every patch
Didn't stop demolition sonya to be a character that could combo you for 10 seconds and literally use her combos to build life lead while scamming the time
Didn't stop Sheeva to be stupid at launch in MK11
or Scorpion to be mad insane on release of MK11
or Breakways to be as flawled as it was.






The reality is, i do play other fighting games, ever since i was 5, and maybe you should try to play some other fighting games other than Mortal Kombat, and widen your perspective, that's not an insult, it's a suggestion.
I've literally named several other fighting games in this thread. Ive played them. What? I played Super Turbo when I was 8. This No True Scotsman fallacy is insane.

As for the rest, I could go into why it's just wrong but you're really married to this.
 

xKhaoTik

The Ignore Button Is Free
No one is saying you shouldn't get punished. This is an insane straw man.
Is it tho? Because there’s quite a few people agree with me, and you, not so much.

For the record, I never said breakers shouldn’t exist. I don’t mind them. It’s just garbage in MK11
Just say you don't like making a read. From my perspective, there really isn't much of a difference between baiting a Burst in something like GG or BlazBlue and reading a breakaway attempt. The idea is fundamentally the same.
The fact that you’re trying to compare breakaways to bursts is an actual joke lmao.

Why should - hypothetically - a character with a safe, loopable vortex(a thing that exists in several NRS games) be allowed to just go ham with the opponent having no chance of escape once hit?
You say this right after saying “just say you don’t like making a read”. The same thing applies to you here. Vortex characters can’t get started until YOU make the wrong read.

I’ve never once played street fighter, or tekken, or anything like that and thought “oh man I wish I could break this combo”. Idk maybe it’s just me but I don’t cry just because I got hit with a combo. You prefer get out of jail free cards and that’s ok. Not everyone has to feel that way tho

And again, I have no problem with breakers. Please understand that before you reply because you like to put words in people’s mouths to get your point across
 

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
Do you actually understood the Opening thread?
One more thing since my, "do you even play other FGs" credentials were called into question:

I've played:

SF Super Turbo
SF Alpha 1-3
SF Ex Plus Alpha
Rival Schools
Darkstalkers 2 and 3
MvC 2 and vanilla MvC 3
Soul Calibur 2-5
Virtua Fighter 2(I think, it was on PS2)
MK1-11.
Injustice and Injustice 2
Guilty Gear X-2
Guilty Gear Accent Core
Guilty Gear Xrd
Guilty Gear Strive
BlazBlue: Central Fiction
BlazBlue: Calamity Trigger
Vanilla P4Arena

Confession: I've never played Tekken because except like King, the bears, and the Kangaroo, that game looks dry as hell. No aesthetic appeal whatsoever.

Please go to bed with this No True Scotsmen nonsense.
 

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
Is it tho? Because there’s quite a few people agree with me, and you, not so much.

For the record, I never said breakers shouldn’t exist. I don’t mind them. It’s just garbage in MK11

The fact that you’re trying to compare breakaways to bursts is an actual joke lmao.


You say this right after saying “just say you don’t like making a read”. The same thing applies to you here. Vortex characters can’t get started until YOU make the wrong read.

I’ve never once played street fighter, or tekken, or anything like that and thought “oh man I wish I could break this combo”. Idk maybe it’s just me but I don’t cry just because I got hit with a combo. You prefer get out of jail free cards and that’s ok. Not everyone has to feel that way tho

And again, I have no problem with breakers. Please understand that before you reply because you like to put words in people’s mouths to get your point across
"More people agree with me than you." Okay, that just means there's a lot of people with shit opinions, welcome to the FGC. You don't know what my actual argument even is.

"Get out of jail free card" Completely forgets that combo escapes in NRS games cost meter.

I'm done this time, I swear.
 

Felipe_Gewehr

Twinktile
I understand MK9 and MKX had large disparities when it came to building meter depending on the characters, but the breaker system itself always felt fair to me. Reset neutral, spend resources, back to square 1 and you wont be breaking again in at least 20 seconds or something. You couldn't break that often, really. I wouldn't mind them returning in MK1 AT ALL - but then again, MK is indeed the only fighting game franchise I've been playing for years.

Breakaways, however, are a fuming pile of shit imo.
 

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
One more thing since my, "do you even play other FGs" credentials were called into question:

I've played:

SF Super Turbo
SF Alpha 1-3
SF Ex Plus Alpha
Rival Schools
Darkstalkers 2 and 3
MvC 2 and vanilla MvC 3
Soul Calibur 2-5
Virtua Fighter 2(I think, it was on PS2)
MK1-11.
Injustice and Injustice 2
Guilty Gear X-2
Guilty Gear Accent Core
Guilty Gear Xrd
Guilty Gear Strive
BlazBlue: Central Fiction
BlazBlue: Calamity Trigger
Vanilla P4Arena


Confession: I've never played Tekken because except like King, the bears, and the Kangaroo, that game looks dry as hell. No aesthetic appeal whatsoever.

Please go to bed with this No True Scotsmen nonsense.
So Basically you played SF games
MK games
Injustice Games
GG games
Blazblue games
Soul Caliber
Some Virtua fighter (though outdated AF)
MVC
Rival Schools

that's a pretty small list though, nothing impressive, but i can understand the preference, nothing against your tastes
 

Saltea Moonspell

"Mind Over Matter" I dont mind, and X dont matter
What do you mean by, "function properly?" MK9 was Hella glitchy when it came to meter but I can't think of a time when you had two bars, used the break option, and it just didn't come out. Unless the opponent was using nothing but specials to end the combo maybe?
The problem with breaks in MK9 comes from the construction stand point - some characters had it easier to have access to it due to the way it was incorporated with meter mechanics.

The action (break) work as it was designed to but NRS did not took into account, that some characters (due to their meta) could built meter faster then others, thus the functionality of the breakers was compromised.
 

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
The problem with breaks in MK9 comes from the construction stand point - some characters had it easier to have access to it due to the way it was incorporated with meter mechanics.

The action (break) work as it was designed to but NRS did not took into account, that some characters (due to their meta) could built meter faster then others, thus the functionality of the breakers was compromised.
That's a problem with how meter was built, not with breakers. It's why I told Saltshaker that it depends on how meter is built - Holy shit do any of you know what my actual argument is?
 

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
That's a problem with how meter was built, not with breakers. It's why I told Saltshaker that it depends on how meter is built - Holy shit do any of you know what my actual argument is?
this same issue exists in any other game, the point we're are trying to make here, if you don't have breaker, it doesn't matter how they build their meter, damage is damage
 

xKhaoTik

The Ignore Button Is Free
You don't know what my actual argument even is.
I read the thread
Pretty sure in a game with no escape system at all that characters with vortexes would be pretty fucked up.
This was your argument. Your opening statement and it’s wrong beyond belief. There are plenty of FGs that have vortex characters and don’t have a breaker mechanic and thrived. Had EVO success and all that. You also went on to name a bunch of FGs you claimed to play, and a lot of those games don’t have a breaker system, which goes against your argument

2 of the Big 3 FGs are full of mixup characters and they don’t have any type of break system. Those games are THRIVING and will continue to. No one cries about how “fucked up” the games are either. Yes there’s been some crazy characters but nothing to the point where it needed a breaker system
 

Saltea Moonspell

"Mind Over Matter" I dont mind, and X dont matter
Gentlemen,

If NRS did their job right we wouldnt have this discussion in the first place. Ten years, ten years we've been dealing with either a breaker that is more frequently accessible to others or get you fu#ked for making a read/punish. Not to mention there are other issues with breakaway.

Honestly, at this point the game is done.

We can have this discussion for our own satisfaction (and perhaps for the later part "Did I not told you so") for fun.
 

zerosebaz

What's the point of a random Krypt?
I am in support of no breakers or breakaway. I remember over the years people going for absurd plays cause they know they can immediately break. I think matches would be a lot more satisfying and played more neutral and strategic. I am fine with breaker or no breaker...breakaway never again though.
See, this is the complete opposite of me. I like being able to go for the crazy read or the absurd play because I know I have a breaker if it fails. I like it both as a player and an expectator. I think it encourages people to take more risks resulting in more exiting matches.
 

Zviko

Noob
See, this is the complete opposite of me. I like being able to go for the crazy read or the absurd play because I know I have a breaker if it fails. I like it both as a player and an expectator. I think it encourages people to take more risks resulting in more exiting matches.
That's not exciting at all. It's just luck. It's 50/50. It's not "taking risk" if there's no risking anything except meter for like 10 seconds. You just throw something out there and hope it works and if it doesn't, nothing happens. That's exciting for the player if it worked but how is it exciting for anyone else?
 

Saltea Moonspell

"Mind Over Matter" I dont mind, and X dont matter
It's not "taking risk" if there's no risking anything except meter for like 10 seconds.
The "10 seconds" you are referring to exists in a game barely anyone consider (when it comes to meter (breakway). You see "Breaking" means you are in defensive position and unless you apply block pressure that meter is not refilling (with exception of special moves)

Also: At some point (or not) you may will realize, that the meter you trading has more value than your life bar and even your entire offense may depend on it.

At that point the perspective on "Breaker" does really change - its not just a meter, that you dont get back for free in ten seconds, its putting yourself into incapacitated state that may lead to a loss : )
 

KingKhrystopher

Official Merlin of TYM
I guess my take on this is that I like the idea of breakers because it allows for more variance in gameplay. Let's take MKX. In MKX, you as the aggressor could go for more risky setups and it was enabled because you knew that if worst came to worst, you could breaker, as someone else mentioned.

But like, idk why we're acting like breakers are just something you got for free in MKX? You had to spend 2 meters of bar and all your stamina, and up until they decided to patch it in MKXL, you were basically putting yourself back in that position since the opponent still had theirs.

In MKX, you used meter a lot, it was customary that just about every character you're playing needed meter for all of their most damaging combos, and in half of the rosters' case, you also needed stamina to perform many of your most damaging combos/perform block pressure (Kitana, D'Vorah, Cassie, Tanya, Scorpion, etc.), so you were giving up a LOT if you used a breaker. It also added more depth to combat, where even at the pro level, not everyone immediately went for breakers because they knew it meant giving up a substantial part of their offensive capabilities, damage output, combo potential, etc., and it also didn't mean that you were immediately out of the clear either, since you could very easily get opened right back up after you did a breaker.

In MK11 this balance is shifted, because outside of wakeups, most characters did not use their defensive meters for anything, so it largely was just sitting there unused for many people. Since there was no real reason to not use the breakaway, you might as well use it.

I would also argue that removing breakers would mean you'd have to restructure the way combat in MK works, which many people are likely not on board with - I mean, look at how a lot of people have taken to MK11. A big complaint about MK11 is the lack of combo damage. In order to keep MK's very aggressor focused combat like we saw in MK9/X, I feel like combo damage would need to be lower, lest we end up in "Get hit twice and the round is already over and there was literally nothing you could do to return fire" on both sides, which I don't think would be very fun. This is part of why I can't do FPS's - getting killed in .5 seconds because of one misplay/mistake isn't fun to me, neither is killing someone else in .5 seconds - I would want the battles to be more drawn out and methodical, and not just down to getting hit once and the round being over, so that it was truly a back and forth. To me, the more fun option is then to allow for high combo damage, but give the person being combo'd the ability to break out if they're willing to give something important up so they can potentially make the comeback, but I respect if others don't.
 

Slick Tony

GT: TheSlickTony - PSN: TH3_AUR3L1U5
I'm just going to preface this by saying that I have NEVER liked the breaker system.

That being said, it has kind of been part of MKs identity for 19 years now. So I can absolutely understand why someone thinks it's a good idea and doesn't want it to leave.

That also being said, it is absolutely ridiculous to criticize others for not wanting them in by saying they just want a one player game. The VAST majority of heavily played FGs do not have a breaker system at all. And they are played faaaaarrrrr longer than any one MK.

UMvC 3, a game worse than even the most offensive MK has no breaker system and that game is universally loved by the community. Almost twice as many people signed up for it at Combo Breaker than MK11... It is 8 years older.

Tekken 7 - a game with a very similar game plan/style to MK, believe it or not, has optimal combos draining 70-80& of a health bar. And everyone loves it.

Finally, trying to lump Killer Instinct's breaker system with MK's is rather disingenuous. KI's entire combat system is built around the breaker system. The game flow always has it in mind (even going as far as having counter breakers). MK's combat system obviously isn't. A large swath of characters wouldn't be so helped/hindered by it if it was.
 
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STB Sgt Reed

Online Warrior
I prefer breaker, but I don't like it building meter super fast for zoners. You already have to work hella hard to get in vs say IA gas blast kabal, they don't need to be able to send you out every time you get in for free. Idk how it would be adjusted but it would need to imo
 

BecomingDeath13

"You won't winter over?" Who the fuck wrote that?
I think the armor breaker was a good idea for mk11 in the end game meta but it was done poorly. ABs needed to be readily available regardless of variation and most of them were so impractical that they weren't even worth using to begin with.

Breakaway can die in a fire. I don't even need to go in depth here because it has been said over and over as to why it was such a shit mechanic.

Breakers are okay. If you have to have an oh shit, I fucked up escape then the breaker wasn't the worst thing ever. There should always be a risk reward to it though. If they don't do an armor breaker again then they need to take a page out of Killer Instinct's book and give everyone a counter-breaker. Blowing someone up because you read their break will never not be hype and they throw away their meter in the process.
 

Arqwart

D'Vorah for KP2 copium
But you're not good, neither am I.

Why should I get to break out of a combo because I did something stupid and got punished for it?
Breakers aren't inherently around just to make up for "doing something stupid," but to also help curb the damage differential between high combo potential and low combo potential characters. It's a balancing lever just like any other.
 

xenogorgeous

.... they mostly come at night. Mostly.
Breakers aren't inherently around just to make up for "doing something stupid," but to also help curb the damage differential between high combo potential and low combo potential characters. It's a balancing lever just like any other.
yeah ....



I really dobut that , anyone caught in a "touch of death" combo , and being looped up to hell, seeing his/her health bar melting down to the point you cannot do nothing but just throw your control into the wall, and seeing this over and over again occuring , that would not like to have at least some gameplay mechanic option to try to revert that bad situation, so ....

Defensive option is a chance to try to avoid the match to become a boring unilateral beat up party time , and I doubt that NRS will left that behind out of any modern MK game, so, deal with that, live through that and adapt to that, period
 
Breakers aren't inherently around just to make up for "doing something stupid," but to also help curb the damage differential between high combo potential and low combo potential characters. It's a balancing lever just like any other.
You don't need it.

yeah ....



I really dobut that , anyone caught in a "touch of death" combo , and being looped up to hell, seeing his/her health bar melting down to the point you cannot do nothing but just throw your control into the wall, and seeing this over and over again occuring , that would not like to have at least some gameplay mechanic option to try to revert that bad situation, so ....

Defensive option is a chance to try to avoid the match to become a boring unilateral beat up party time , and I doubt that NRS will left that behind out of any modern MK game, so, deal with that, live through that and adapt to that, period
Okay using your breaker you managed to escape the dreaded touch of death combo, now it's your turn to-OH NO you got put back in the combo and now you have no meter lol.