Brainiac Matchup Discussion

[HapHaxion]

I noticed that we didn't actually have a dedicated MU discussion thread after ~3 months of IJ2 being out. Let's change that.

 

[ShaolinGunFu]

out of the chars i play- bm beats him, black adam feels even, canary loses horribly

 

[kcd117]

The matchups I have experience:

He loses to batman, pretty bad, brainiac can win if he keeps his momentum going after a knockdown, but once batman has trait he can spam up batarangs to deny any form of aproach brain can make.

He loses to Wonder Woman. Not as bad as batman, but he has no answers to well spaced shield tosses and she can challenge his air footsies very well. She controls the mid range game where he usually excells.

He beats cheetah, as someone that plays both characters I can say this feels like a 7-3 for him. She has no good answers for trait pressure, can't compete in the footsies department and can't anti air him very well. Blood lunges are laughably free to his j1 on reaction.

He completely destroys grodd, he is a worst version of cheetah, once you get him to the corner it is almost impossible to loose mixing f3, s3 and trait pressure.

I believe he beats catwoman now, j1 and s3 and d2 are really oppresive footsie tools in this match. She can be air to aired on reaction if she tries to jump, if she doesn't she can't really to much about s3, s3 trait, b1, b1 trait, b12 trait, charge and f3 in the grounded game.

He might beat supergirl, but for now I'd say he goes even with her, trait management is key for this MU, whoever uses it best wins, but brain hits like a truck when he gets an opening.

I feel like he beats black adam, he does just as much dmg as adam, controls the air and grounded footsies and completely rapes adam on knockdown, in the corner it feels like mkx.

He beats superman basically for the same reasons he beats adam, but he does it better against SM.

He shits on sub zero, probably sub's worst matchup.

He does surprisingly well against arrow, probably a 5-5, once you get in b1 range arrow is in trouble.

Fate is an annoying as hell 5-5 match. Jumping on fate is complete suicidbe now that his b2 got buffed to a safer and more active version of aquaman's d2 and his air to airs are godlike. Once brain is in fate struggles a lot with his mixups and mid range control.

He goes even with flash. They both have good mixups and big dmg. Brainiac controls the neutral but once flash hits you you can say goodbye to 50/60% of your health, and his pressure is better against big characters. Any mistake against one of these caracters decides the matchup.

He goes even with lantern, GL can compete in footsies and in the air with brain, one of the few characters that can do it.

I wanna say he beats aquaman but I need to play this one more.

His worst matchups (they actually might be his only bad matchups) are batman, WW, Harley and Red hood. I feel like he does really well against the rest of the cast.

 

[Toonstrack]

Im thinking about picking this guy up next. He seems like he has a lot of potential and I actually think he beats GA pretty bad. I played against him yesterday with GA and got bodied almost completely. He matches GA in the zoning game and up close destroys him

 

[Ramuans]

Personally toughest match ups are Batman and GA.I dont understand how others say that this MU is 5-5 or even in brainiacs favor lol. Harley and RH is annoying as well but I feel like you can shit on RH easily up close.

 

[Brain-main]

I think he wins the flash match up.
Brain can spend the whole game in the air and there is nothing flash can do.

aqua man is weird, his d2 stops all approach... but you can out range him.

Wonder Woman wins with shield control.
Batman wins with trait control and rangs.

But I personally can't deal with supergirl, her mobility is frustrating.
Same with firestorm.

Cat woman should be relatively easy but her j2 is annoying, and trying to punish a whiffed b3 with b1 is ill-advised.. it whiffs.

He absolutely shreds swamp thing, but who doesn't?

 

[Basic Stupidity]

He loses to WW, batman, dead shot, maybe flash, darkseid, cat woman, cyborg, beetle, red hood and a tough even vs Firestorm, atro and harely. The rest he wins or ties

 

[Alkaline]

He loses to WW, batman, dead shot, maybe flash, darkseid, cat woman, cyborg, beetle, red hood and a tough even vs Firestorm, atro and harely. The rest he wins or ties

i disagree about deadshot. watch tekken master vs foxy. can't see him losing to flash at all either.

 

[Basic Stupidity]

i disagree about deadshot. watch tekken master vs foxy. can't see him losing to flash at all either.

if you dont believe the deadshot one watch scar vs foxy when foxy is much more experienced in the mu, its one of brains worst MUs when played right, however I never thought it was a losing MU until recently like u. Deadshot community says brain loses and so do I.
flash has good AA. brain cant duck flashes overhead string and flash does more damage off of his 50s and they are safer vs brain than the opposite so his game plan is much more effective. flash has 5 frame air to air. flash gets alot of damage from mb f and b3 which is crucial vs brain. has 2 hitting mb b3 which limits brains wakeups which is very important to brain.

 

[Alkaline]

if you dont believe the deadshot one watch scar vs foxy when foxy is much more experienced in the mu

i don't know what match you are referring to, but it is not on youtube when i searched just now. and in terms of "much more experienced", the match I am talking about happened at VS fighting like 2 weeks ago. here's a link:

.
if he is now "much more experienced" and what you are talking about happened more recently than that, please post a link.

as for what the "deadshot community" says, that is irrelevant. brainiac is one of the hardest if not the hardest character in the game to play properly. the success of the character will vary wildly based on the skill of the player, and since there are like 10 people in the entire community currently playing him at all, ds mains opinions about the mu couldn't possibly mean less to me.

 

[Basic Stupidity]

i don't know what match you are referring to, but it is not on youtube when i searched just now. and in terms of "much more experienced", the match I am talking about happened at VS fighting like 2 weeks ago. here's a link:

.
(Match starts at 9:23:50)
if he is now "much more experienced" and what you are talking about happened more recently than that, please post a link.

as for what the "deadshot community" says, that is irrelevant. brainiac is one of the hardest if not the hardest character in the game to play properly. the success of the character will vary wildly based on the skill of the player, and since there are like 10 people in the entire community currently playing him at all, ds mains opinions about the mu couldn't possibly mean less to me.

The match im talking about happened two days ago at absolute battle 8...
here it is

(Match starts at 9:23:50)

Foxy struggled in the begging and lost the first match, adjusted and handled brain the for the rest of the set and scar struggled to get in, 3-1 foxy.

Deadshots keep away is much better against brainiac than even batmans. deadshots bounce shots and low rifle make the trait almost impossible to use and in comparison the only time batman can shut down a trait charge is if he does a yolo grapple or trait otherwise it is very easy to charge up trait and use it against batman. against batman at fullscreen brain can aidk both the up and mid batarang causing atleast some ground to be lost automatically for batman. Against deadshot every movement is a guess and could be blown up and instead of you holding the ground that youve made when youre hit, you could fly back to fullscreen because of trait. Deadshot has a 5 frame air to air which is effective in stopping leaps as a last resort if somehow brain pulls one off. you can not progress towards deadshot as easily and effectively as batman because of low rifle. if deadshot blocks a dk you will have to guess 50 50 and if you guess wrong youll be sent back to fullscreen. deadshot is a much worse mu than the batman one however it takes more getting used to by the deadshots and like you said not many people play brain so not everyone knows how to stop him.

 

[Alkaline]

the match im talking about happened two days ago...

if he is now "much more experienced" and what you are talking about happened more recently than that, please post a link.

i can see you're just going to argue, while i'm trying to discuss matchups and learn, so i'm gonna let this one go in the hopes of keeping this thread useful. good luck.

 

[Alkaline]

Foxy loses the first match, adjusts and comfortably takes the next 3

i will watch it but you are missing the point. this is a mu "discussion" thread. so foxy lost decisively to one brainiac and beat a different one. cool. i brought up the tm vs foxy match because i think it shows conceptually why ds has a much harder time than you were saying he does. i was hoping to "discuss" the matchup, not argue about videos of foxy grampa. you said he loses to ds, so you can either choose to elaborate and validate your opinion, or not.

 

[Basic Stupidity]

i will watch it but you are missing the point. this is a mu "discussion" thread. so foxy lost decisively to one brainiac and beat a different one. cool. i brought up the tm vs foxy match because i think it shows conceptually why ds has a much harder time than you were saying he does. i was hoping to "discuss" the matchup, not argue about videos of foxy grampa. you said he loses to ds, so you can either choose to elaborate and validate your opinion, or not.

I did and I was going to, my posts take time especially when i have to look for the stupid video proof for you in a 10 hour video. go look back and read my edited post. I feel that the match against scar displays the mu better but still not fully, mostly just pay attention to the final game. Foxy still was letting scar get away with some stuff he shouldnt and still did well versus him. You can bet that foxy studied that mu once he lost the first time and you can clearly see he manages a much easier time against brain the next time.

 

[The Great Red Dragon]

Harley is a headache for brainisnack imo

 

[kcd117]

Brainiac does not loose to neither deadshot or flash. Flash is a 5-5, now for deadshot I strongly believe brain has a slight advantage. The reason why batman beats brainiac is not due to the fact that he can keep brainiac away, bc he can't (the only character that can really do that is ww), but due to the fact that when he has bats out he can just throw up batarangs forever and there is not a single thing brainiac can try to do without getting punished for it, he literally keeps brainiac from playing the game once he has 1 bat out.

 

[Basic Stupidity]

Brainiac does not loose to neither deadshot or flash. Flash is a 5-5, now for deadshot I strongly believe brain has a slight advantage. The reason why batman beats brainiac is not due to the fact that he can keep brainiac away, bc he can't (the only character that can really do that is ww), but due to the fact that when he has bats out he can just throw up batarangs forever and there is not a single thing brainiac can try to do without getting punished for it, he literally keeps brainiac from playing the game once he has 1 bat out.

so zoning...
people havent played the deadshot mu enough to understand how bad it really is. I for awhile thought that brain won it until I played a deadshot that actually knew what he was doing. The mu is very hard for brain to get in and he has to make a read evertime he wants to progress. Whenever he is right on the read it hardly means anything because either he can be hit right after or he makes little to no progress.
I see you plan on not countering my points on flash, thats cool.
Also ww does not zone brain out lmao you must not kno the mu. dont get me wrong he loses the mu for sure but he doesnt get "zoned out" by her

 

[Basic Stupidity]

Harley is a headache for brainisnack imo

the mu is still fair, brain has options for all her options and can counter them pretty well into full combo. Also he is one of the only characters that can kinda deal with her brain dead d1 pressure

 

[The Great Red Dragon]

the mu is still fair, brain has options for all her options and can counter them pretty well into full combo. Also he is one of the only characters that can kinda deal with her brain dead d1 pressure

I just find the zoning to be rough is all. It's mostly me just being impatient really

 

[legion666]

I think all characters who have anti air , diagonal zoning option stop half of the Brainiac's game (the most effective part which is air approach). If on top of that they zone him on the ground it becomes really difficult to approach at all. Keeping the trait on block and hit when you hold it has made it easier to use in combos and set ups but only if you get a hit. You still can't get it out in order to get in if you opponent knows the MU and has the tools I described above. I also play Darkseid besides brainy, and it seems like it is also difficult for him.

 

[kcd117]

so zoning...
people havent played the deadshot mu enough to understand how bad it really is. I for awhile thought that brain won it until I played a deadshot that actually knew what he was doing. The mu is very hard for brain to get in and he has to make a read evertime he wants to progress. Whenever he is right on the read it hardly means anything because either he can be hit right after or he makes little to no progress.
I see you plan on not countering my points on flash, thats cool.
Also ww does not zone brain out lmao you must not kno the mu. dont get me wrong he loses the mu for sure but he doesnt get "zoned out" by her

Play a wowo that knows her range and you'll see what I'm talking about. She doesn't keep him fullscreen with her zoning, but once you play a competent wowo that corners brainiac and keeps him at the max range of her shield tosses good luck getting out. For deadshot, from my experience this matchup is completely different offline, where you can react and punish mb rifle from fullscreen and advance through his projectiles without any lag. Once you walk him to the corner it only a matter of getting an opening and you can take a whole lifebar in like 2 guesses.

Now about flash.that's literally just flash being flash lol, the character is stupid good up close with hella dumb mix options. With that said, brainiac's neutral is way better than his, he doesn't really have an answer to brainiac calling trait outside of his bf2 range, he can't consistently anti air dive kicks, his j1 looses to brain's j1 clean, and it is very hard for flash to keep brainiac cornered while brainiac can make it really hard for flash to get out. I can't see him losing this matchup. This is another matchup that seems way better to play offline where you can react and punish stuff.

 

[Basic Stupidity]

Play a wowo that knows her range and you'll see what I'm talking about. She doesn't keep him fullscreen with her zoning, but once you play a competent wowo that corners brainiac and keeps him at the max range of her shield tosses good luck getting out. For deadshot, from my experience this matchup is completely different offline, where you can react and punish mb rifle from fullscreen and advance through his projectiles without any lag. Once you walk him to the corner it only a matter of getting an opening and you can take a whole lifebar in like 2 guesses.

Now about flash.that's literally just flash being flash lol, the character is stupid good up close with hella dumb mix options. With that said, brainiac's neutral is way better than his, he doesn't really have an answer to brainiac calling trait outside of his bf2 range, he can't consistently anti air dive kicks, his j1 looses to brain's j1 clean, and it is very hard for flash to keep brainiac cornered while brainiac can make it really hard for flash to get out. I can't see him losing this matchup. This is another matchup that seems way better to play offline where you can react and punish stuff.

WW does well against brain because of her tools and her shield toss but you said earlier she zones brain out. brain still has more options against her shield tosses than he does against deadshot, anytime brain thinks ww will not throw a shield he can aidk and when she does throw a shield he gets a free aidk that she cant do anything about. Deadshots will rarely use low rifle against brain because they dont really need to. The only time they will use it is on knockdown or off of some kind of plus frames making it hard for brain to do anything about it. Also when you react to the low rifle you still arent guaranteed anything. You could do leap but he'll recover in time to punish it, you could do aidk but then he could just mb the low rifle. openings against good deadshots are very rare especially as brain. since you cant get trait out and use it almost all the time, brain is free to a mb f3 or b3 everytime he goes for a mixup. he loses the mu.

Now I did say that brain maybe loses to flash. I still feel tho that flash clearly has a greater advantage against anyone who cant duck the overhead string. I wouldnt say a 5 frame air to air loses to an 8 frame jump in clean, that defies all logic. Flashes d2 shuts down dk clean im not sure why youd think it doesnt, then he can get some big damage off of the d2. Flashes mixups are superior to brains and flash has tools to use to counter brains but brain doesnt have tools to counter flashes which is why i think brain could lose the mu

 

[kcd117]

WW does well against brain because of her tools and her shield toss but you said earlier she zones brain out. brain still has more options against her shield tosses than he does against deadshot, anytime brain thinks ww will not throw a shield he can aidk and when she does throw a shield he gets a free aidk that she cant do anything about. Deadshots will rarely use low rifle against brain because they dont really need to. The only time they will use it is on knockdown or off of some kind of plus frames making it hard for brain to do anything about it. Also when you react to the low rifle you still arent guaranteed anything. You could do leap but he'll recover in time to punish it, you could do aidk but then he could just mb the low rifle. openings against good deadshots are very rare especially as brain. since you cant get trait out and use it almost all the time, brain is free to a mb f3 or b3 everytime he goes for a mixup. he loses the mu.

Now I did say that brain maybe loses to flash. I still feel tho that flash clearly has a greater advantage against anyone who cant duck the overhead string. I wouldnt say a 5 frame air to air loses to an 8 frame jump in clean, that defies all logic. Flashes d2 shuts down dk clean im not sure why youd think it doesnt, then he can get some big damage off of the d2. Flashes mixups are superior to brains and flash has tools to use to counter brains but brain doesnt have tools to counter flashes which is why i think brain could lose the mu

I see your point, but the difference in the ww and ds matchups is that once you knock deadshot down he has to guess, and once you knock ww down you have to guess. She also hits way harder than he does and has better ways to contest brain's air game. Beating deadshot is a matter of patience, you will eventually get in, and once you do you end his health bar in 2/3 guesses. Getting through his zoning is more annoying than hard tbh.

I agree with u that flash's oh string not whiffing on brain is a big deal, but when you look at his tools you'll see brainiac's normals and air control can be very trick for flash to deal with, and flash doesn't have a safe way to keep brainiac from calling his drones, which makes his game super safe and gives him huge dmg out of his 50/50. Flash's d2 is great, but when you mix your divekicks with floats it is not that easy to anti air. Also flash's corner game is huge and brainiac has a great way to deal with it. Im not saying it is easy for brainiac, but it certainly is not easy for flash. This is even imo.

 

[Marinjuana]

I need more experience in every single matchup before I want to drop numbers or anything but I feel like WW fundamentally beats Braniac. I think Brainiac has to adjust his gameplan more so then most characters based on the matchup but this one feels like you really have to change it up. Please let me know if you think any of this is nonsense or if you have anything at all to add.

Brainiac cannot beat her in a zoning war at all, he will have to approach unless you have a significant life lead. She will naturally have more meter then you because of this. She doesn't even need to work to get into shield range, walking back seems best for her.

She has a great d2, good air normals, air shield, anti-air shield and good walk speed to assist her in crippling your air approach. The walk speed really hurts crossup attempts.

Brainiac has very limited options on block against her thanks to her Shield Bash reversal. She's one of those few characters where you really have to limit what you can do because of a reversal. Because of the threat of shield and shield bash it makes it really difficult to play footsies and you can't cover space with your normals like you may usually can without risk.

She has solid wakeups, her regular one is just okay but with the fast threat of Shield Bash you have to respect her options.

The best strategy against a defensive Wonder Woman seems to be to walk her to the corner, use trait to attempt to get in and keep her in the corner. At this time this just feels like an uphill battle to me.

 

[Brain-main]

I need more experience in every single matchup before I want to drop numbers or anything but I feel like WW fundamentally beats Braniac. I think Brainiac has to adjust his gameplan more so then most characters based on the matchup but this one feels like you really have to change it up. Please let me know if you think any of this is nonsense or if you have anything at all to add.

Brainiac cannot beat her in a zoning war at all, he will have to approach unless you have a significant life lead. She will naturally have more meter then you because of this. She doesn't even need to work to get into shield range, walking back seems best for her.

She has a great d2, good air normals, air shield, anti-air shield and good walk speed to assist her in crippling your air approach. The walk speed really hurts crossup attempts.

Brainiac has very limited options on block against her thanks to her Shield Bash reversal. She's one of those few characters where you really have to limit what you can do because of a reversal. Because of the threat of shield and shield bash it makes it really difficult to play footsies and you can't cover space with your normals like you may usually can without risk.

She has solid wakeups, her regular one is just okay but with the fast threat of Shield Bash you have to respect her options.

The best strategy against a defensive Wonder Woman seems to be to walk her to the corner, use trait to attempt to get in and keep her in the corner. At this time this just feels like an uphill battle to me.

Agree with all this, you have to walk her down.
Or load trait shot at full screen and approach from the air using trait to cover you.