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Born On a Monday -- Solomon Grundy General Discussion/QA/Combo Thread

DukeofFortuneMan

Some guy with a PS3
I've been looking into much more actively using 113 into d1, after threatening them with armor after the 113 so they are trained to d1 less to try and break out. It seems to be working quite well. Thoughts?
 
I've been looking into much more actively using 113 into d1, after threatening them with armor after the 113 so they are trained to d1 less to try and break out. It seems to be working quite well. Thoughts?

Well it depends on how much he can get off his d1, how much can he get? Can he get a swamp hands or trait?

Oh and I was watching WNF and this RDK Tyrant guy is wrecking shit with grundy, here's the link http://www.twitch.tv/leveluplive/b/410094703 I'm not about to post all the links but there's one match against a black adam around the 2:15:00 mark.
 

DukeofFortuneMan

Some guy with a PS3
Well it depends on how much he can get off his d1, how much can he get? Can he get a swamp hands or trait?
Never thought about straight-up confirms. Never needed to.


On hit, frametrap into slightly delayed trait (catches jumpaways if you time it just right), on block frametraps to trait only if you chain it, on a timing that whiffs when you hit them. If they jump away, cr.1 combos into trait, with the blocking timing. So, it's mostly reading. I usually do one punch earlier in a match/set, and delayed armored trait, works even on block if they try to insert a fast button. The option I use with no meter is d1 d1 chained to trait, work, first hits, second is usually blocked, if they've got the standard reflexes. Later in the match when they start blocking it or jumping away, natural response for the first trick, one d1 chained to trait catches most blocks and jumpaways. Blocking the first then jumping away, that usually happens last. anti-air throw after a d1 works if they're going heavy on the smarts. Then you have the standard f13/MB Trait/Block the wakeup mixup.

My way's read heavy, but it seems to work okay. Note, this is easier when they're getting used to you in a set, and show respect. If it's a frequent sparring buddy, the traps take more of a random order.




And yeah, Tyrant plays Superman, well, did? Anyway, he's got a really smart Grundy, he has a lot of matchup knowledge, patience, and unclashable combos later on. All of it, just solid play, when he's on his game, which is pretty often. He's one of the reasons I watch that stream right now.
 

DukeofFortuneMan

Some guy with a PS3
Ah. Either way, I like frametraps. It's a problem. Seeking counseling.

Personally I prefer throwstuffs, because I wouldn't be able to tell if they would block the d1, and that's unsafe...er...on block.
 

Hated Greatness

Super Villain
I just got done fighting a solid Harley Quinn player on XBL. We played three matches and he won them all. I am new to Grundy (put in tons of time in the practice mode with him learning combos and such, now trying to get actual combat experience). What tools does he have to stop pressure? That HQ play would rush me down and keep attacking on my wake up or regardless if I blocked. I couldn't find a move that fast enough to stop the pressure. Thanks.
 

Asodimazze

https://twitter.com/AlfioZacco
I just got done fighting a solid Harley Quinn player on XBL. We played three matches and he won them all. I am new to Grundy (put in tons of time in the practice mode with him learning combos and such, now trying to get actual combat experience). What tools does he have to stop pressure? That HQ play would rush me down and keep attacking on my wake up or regardless if I blocked. I couldn't find a move that fast enough to stop the pressure. Thanks.

Walking Corpse and Walking Corpse Cancel are your best move to counter pressure, 3 hits of armor can absorb almost every string in the game...but keep in mind that WC might whiff because of the unthrowable frames that are present in some strings and specials, take a look at this thread: http://www.testyourmight.com/threads/ungrab-able-frames.33189/
Grundy also can also counter the opponent pressure with MB B3/F3 or his armored trait grab: the MB trait grab is perfect in certain situations, does great damage, and give you nice buffs too (it works perfectly in between Green Lantern b13 or b12 for example).

Solomon anti airs might be the best in the game, and surely one of his best tools. No one can jump on you, the anti air grab has incredible priority and d2 works very well too.

On wakeup Cleaver is almost fully invincible, MB Cleaver too; this should be able to break the opponent offence on your wake up. WC/WCC is also a very good option.
If the opponent uses a crossup on your wake up (a classic situation is d3, crossup), you can anti air grab him using the reverse input.

Hope this helps
 

RadicalFuzz

Aspiring Fighter
One problem with that Harley matchup is her stupid gun, at least for me. You can't jump over it because you float like a balloon in the air. If you block one you're forced to block the next one, even if you're crouching. Once she conditions you to crouch she can safely shoot the overhead gun. Seems like WCC can get through it and d2 her, but I haven't had consistent results either way.
If you have meter though the game becomes much easier cause she can't shoot for free for fear of MB Swamp Hands. Is fullscreen 40% the most we can get off a MB SH? Dash 3 times, F13, Trait is what I'm using and it's pretty consistent but you have to be quick on the F13.
 
DS's sword flip is punishable amirit? Is it punishable by trait? Because I was trying to punish it with a pain chain and the opponent kept jumping out of it, but prior to that match I was certain his trait could punish it so I'm not sure if I'm just doing it too slow or if it's too slow.
 

RadicalFuzz

Aspiring Fighter
Sword flip is definitely punishable by standing 2, and you can get a combo off that if you burn meter. I'm not sure if it's punishable by raw trait.
Is sword spin punishable on block? I know you can use the whiff cancel option select to punish, but I can't get a combo off of it if they did sword flip.

Edit: Sword flip is punishable by trait as long as you block the last hit. Sword spin is not punishable on block.
On DS's wakeup you can option select against his sword wakeups. Right before he wakeup attacks, do WC. Input the cancel as if he flipped over you.
-If he wokeup with the spin, he gets grabbed and you can MB for an interactable, leading to roughly 40%.
-If he wokeup with the flip you'll cancel and can land F13 into trait or F12 into MB Swamp Hands and get the basic reset combo for about 50%. The timing and spacing on the F13 are kinda tight, but this OS covers his main 2 wakeup options. Unfortunately, if he just blocks he'll probably react to the WC, jump and punish.
 

RadicalFuzz

Aspiring Fighter
Hey guys, I was screwing around in the lab with F22, and apparently you can just frame link Pain Chain and make an inescapable reset with it, similar to B1 -> PC. If you do it just right even holding up (like DS is in the video) won't get him out of it. If they're aware of the difficulty of the reset, they're probably gonna hold up anyway in case you mess up. Then you can mix them up on hit and threaten with Dead Air or down 2. The B1 reset is still much easier, it's not worth the extra 1-2% to try for the one frame link, but it's another tool in his arsenal. Edit: This does not work midscreen, pushes them out of trait range.
 

RadicalFuzz

Aspiring Fighter
Its long startup makes it difficult to use outside of combos, and the second hit will often miss because there's so much knockback on the first. Has good vertical hitboxes though.
 

Brahma

Noob
I've been looking into much more actively using 113 into d1, after threatening them with armor after the 113 so they are trained to d1 less to try and break out. It seems to be working quite well. Thoughts?
I think 113 is severely underused. + on block, and you can get much better meterless damage on hit than 112 (34% compared to 21%) and very similar 1 meter damage with hit confirm (113 2 xx MBSH). You don't really have many traps afterwards, but it's safe, whereas all of 112 block options except for MB cleaver either have a hole in them or are unsafe. It's great if you make the read on a 112 xx trait or MB cleaver, but if you need to play it safe on a life deficit I think 113 is the smarter choice.
 

RadicalFuzz

Aspiring Fighter
113 is a safer string that leads to more damage meterless, but you can't do anything on block. Maybe it's just me, but when I throw out 112 I don't really expect for them to get hit. One thing I love about some of his strings is that they're mixups on block. It's like "You blocked my 26 frame low, woop de doo. Get out of this mixup that's coming up"
It's very unique and it makes the opponent scared. Depending on the size of the life deficit and how often you can get in against the character/player sometimes you need to force the mixup to stay in the game.
 

Brahma

Noob
I definitely agree that both are useful, but using 112~trait_swamp hands_cleaver means that if you make the read, you get decent damage from trait grab, or minimal damage + wakes from cleaver or SH. If the opponent gets the read, they end up getting either a full block punish on cleaver or a neutral jump over SH or trait for full jumpin combo. You need meter for cleaver or SH to get solid damage. There's WC too, but it can get tricky to cancel if it crosses up and you're still getting minimal reward without meter.

The risk/reward is actually a little skewed in the opponet's favor as they're risking minimal damage vs landing a full combo, whereas you don't get as big a reward on your reads unless they stand there and eat trait grab or you use meter for cleaver_SH. Vs someone who knows the matchup, you're going to end up burning some meter to get that pressure to stop people jumping out.

113 doesn't give you much in the way of pressure, but does leave you at very slight advantage at a range that's pretty good for Grundy. He has all the tools to deal with most characters from that range, great anti-air, armor on WC and f3, 2 and f1 for long range pokes, and SH. Which is another thing that I like about 113 over 112 is that I can react to my opponent rather than committing to something based on a guess. The better meterless damage helps quite a bit too, especially if you want to save meter for clash or post clash combos second round.
 

RadicalFuzz

Aspiring Fighter
Yeah, 113 is a much safer option and has better meterless damage. You can link 11 MB SH during the followup juggle right? Some of my friends enjoy screwing with me by getting hit by the last hit of the 112 string so I might start using that now and reacting rather than guessing.
 

Asodimazze

https://twitter.com/AlfioZacco
Did you guys notice any change for grundy with the last patch? I can't test anything at the moment.
 

DukeofFortuneMan

Some guy with a PS3
Some of my friends enjoy screwing with me by getting hit by the last hit of the 112 string so I might start using that now and reacting rather than guessing.

You can also 11 Walking Corpse on hit or block, they can react to it after it hits a few times, but if they don't see it coming, they get hit when they look for the end of 112 or 113. Also trains them to jump, which is fun.

Or if they like cr jabbing or getting hit to option select interrupt/get hit, 112 MB trait is kinda fun on block


Also, earlier on this thread, I said uppercut was much more fun than anti-air throw. Well, I changed my mind, anti-air throw makes the Catwoman and Joker matchups much easier. Now I'm pretty convinced that if the opponent has small normals or air normals they want to do lower in a jump, uppercut's the way to go, but if the air normals are better-priority or safer when done up high in the jump arc, go for throw. At least, that's me.
 

Brahma

Noob
Yeah, 113 is a much safer option and has better meterless damage. You can link 11 MB SH during the followup juggle right? Some of my friends enjoy screwing with me by getting hit by the last hit of the 112 string so I might start using that now and reacting rather than guessing.
Yeah if people are getting hit with the last hit of 112 on purpose, this is a pretty big surprise for them.

AFAIK f12 trait is the best damage meterless BnB option that works on everyone at all ranges, larger characters like Grundy/Bane/Lex you can f13 trait. On close hit you can link 11 xx MBSH, or, you can 2 xx MBSH at all ranges for a few less damage. It's kind of tricky to time, but basically hit 2 right after they flip over in the air.
 

RadicalFuzz

Aspiring Fighter
You can land f13 on Lantern too, so it might be possible but more difficult on smaller characters. I'll need to practice the f12, it never occured to me to use that string instead of f13. Also, I think you can link 11 at all ranges, you just need to walk forward for a few frames before hitting them.