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General/Other - Kotal Kahn Blood Offering: What could be changed?

ColdSpine

"I wore those colors before you"
blood god is fine, so is war god.

the only variation that needs a second look is sun god since u cant make f1 b2 safe due to lack of totems or sword. i might be wrong but it seems lacking
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
The set-up in the video as he himself notes relies heavily on them not knowing what Kotal can do and blindly doing a wake-up. even the mix-up overhead doesn't lead to a combo and not sure why he says they look similar as one is a jumping look and the other a stomp... in any event just blocking after blood offering is pretty simple and gives you advantage since you will take far less damage then he will...
How do you not see then that he proved his point by showing you a safe blood offering with a lifebar's worth of punishment in case your opponent is stupid enough to challenge your movement post-special? Which btw, they will be tempted to in an intense match.

So far we've established you must block and be at his mercy in fear of 60%+.

Maybe this is what makes your character good.
 

KeyserSoze

Fabled Villain
When you know what it does you can do things like aim to just block given his limited mix-ups, or use jabs d3 etc since if he uses his own he only gets near no dmg from the buff. Since he's taken 10% dmg as long as you can find a way to take less you win, and outside of wargod, kotal is unsafe enough that you risk counter pressure very easily.
You can block, but even a throw with those damage buffs setup is doing 24%. And as was pointed out in that video, the overhead (B2) and low (F3) look pretty similar. If you guess wrong on whether to block the overhead or low, you are either eating 18% damage (if you choose to block the low and Kotal hits with B2) or 40% (!!) damage (if you choose to block the overhead and Kotal hits with F3 cancelled into Burning Sunstone). All three of those numbers are bigger than 10% . . .

And let's not even get into War God, who has mix-ups out the ass.
 

Jeddite

Soul Kollector
blood god is fine, so is war god.

the only variation that needs a second look is sun god since u cant make f1 b2 safe due to lack of totems or sword. i might be wrong but it seems lacking
Honestly, I don't think a single variation needs work. It's still early, but Sun God seems to be his most damage heavy variation, War God gives him the most spacing options, and Blood God is his tempo control variation. I'm still finding trouble on wake-up in Blood even with EX Parry, but I guess I just need to not get knocked down ;)
 

KeyserSoze

Fabled Villain
I think blood sacrifice could be a bit faster imo so it can be done safely. am not sure if you can cancel it form a combo, but even if it does would i be able to aa grab after ? i gotta test this. i know with blood good you can cancel into to totem and continue the combo on online mortals
You can throw it out completely safely after a B122.
 

DavS13

Noob
Guys, he can control his life bar like no one else. Use blood offering and throw some sun on yourself. You now have a damage buff with very little consequence. You can park right in your own sun beam and gain life back, if you do an ex sun beam you'll pretty much get it all back.

As kotal you have great mid to close screen presence due to your f1 footsie tool, getting a blood offering out does not require a setup, throwing it out after a f12 on hit and see how many people punish it.
So you get the damage boost on the next three hits no matter how long it takes you to get the hits? What I'm asking is if there is an expiration or something . also those three hits don't count if their blocked correct ?
 

regulas

Your Emporer
So you get the damage boost on the next three hits no matter how long it takes you to get the hits? What I'm asking is if there is an expiration or something . also those three hits don't count if their blocked correct ?
Lasts forever, but blocked hits do count.
 

KeyserSoze

Fabled Villain
How do you not see then that he proved his point by showing you a safe blood offering with a lifebar's worth of punishment in case your opponent is stupid enough to challenge your movement post-special? Which btw, they will be tempted to in an intense match.

So far we've established you must block and be at his mercy in fear of 60%+.

Maybe this is what makes your character good.
 

NYCj360

i Use a modded cyber now
Use Blood offering = loose 40% life because you can always be punished for using it. The you use sunbeam and again eat another combo so now your at 30% and you might have gotten back 2-3 for beam. Your not going to be able to just stand in beam without at least being chipped as much.

The abilities are "theoretically" good but in an actual fight with an aggressive opponent it won't work out that way.

It feels like he was nerfed for being too strong on paper without anyone actually trying it out.
I'm speaking from experience, trust me.
 

KeyserSoze

Fabled Villain
Because Kotal blood has few options to open someone up.. this means that if you know what the char can do blocking and being defensive isn't actually that scary against him compared to a set-play or zoner character.
I agree with this in theory, but I disagree in practice. Even the best players don't block perfectly well. Kotal isn't going to open people up anywhere near as often as most of the cast, but when he does, he's going to hurt his opponent more than any other character in this game. Blood Offering will have plenty of uses within that context.
 

Agilaz

It has begun
I've come to like blood offering. I play War God mainly though, so I don't consider it to be THAT important to me. Every now and then when I have the momentum I might end a combo in it.

That said, I wouldn't complain should they decide to reduce the self damage a little.
 
In that setup I showed, if Kotal does f3-4 xx ex fireball and the opponent blocks all 3 hits... it does 11.97% worth of block damage and leaves Kotal at +16. and even if you just cancel into regular non-ex fireball, the total chip damage is 10.72% and Kotal is at +6.

aka, that 10% life kotal cos thimself is already worth it even if the oponent blocks!

but if it hits, 48%
 

regulas

Your Emporer
Look for his twitch account on twitch.tv

Streams a lot
So I'm watching Ricos stream right now... and he literally just did an analysis of the types... and his comment on blood god is the different buffs are too conditional (this included a discussion about the set-ups due to some peoples chat comments), lacking in options to open people up and that sun god is worse because the grab isn't much better then regular grab...
 

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
So I'm watching Ricos stream right now... and he literally just did an analysis of the types... and his comment on blood god is the different buffs are too conditional (this included a discussion about the set-ups due to some peoples chat comments), lacking in options to open people up and that sun god is worse because the grab isn't much better then regular grab...
Pig owned lol
 

D. R.

Noob
Pig owned lol
Random question since you're in this thread...

Do you know why the God Choke damage was nerfed with the day one patch? Seemed unnecessary to me. Sun God was the variation I really wanted to play but it now seems useless with a weak ass command grab you have to "level up." I had 50% combos with one meter and a lvl 3 choke; Now I'm hurting to barely get above 45% with tighter combos given the former circumstances.

Seems Blood God is where it's at now.
 

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
Random question since you're in this thread...

Do you know why the God Choke damage was nerfed with the day one patch? Seemed unnecessary to me. Sun God was the variation I really wanted to play but it now seems useless with a weak ass command grab you have to "level up." I had 50% combos with one meter and a lvl 3 choke; Now I'm hurting to barely get above 45% with tighter combos given the former circumstances.

Seems Blood God is where it's at now.
Wish I knew

Sorry I don't
 

regulas

Your Emporer
Random question since you're in this thread...

Do you know why the God Choke damage was nerfed with the day one patch? Seemed unnecessary to me. Sun God was the variation I really wanted to play but it now seems useless with a weak ass command grab you have to "level up." I had 50% combos with one meter and a lvl 3 choke; Now I'm hurting to barely get above 45% with tighter combos given the former circumstances.

Seems Blood God is where it's at now.

If I had to guess I'd say his high base damages, gives an impression of him as overly powerful on paper but this doesn't consider usability. For a dmg comparison I think 2 of the sub zero forms struggle to break 30% with 1 meter unless they are in the corner, compared to Kotal who easily breaks 40 with 1 meter midscreen.