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Black Manta General Discussion "I brought a hook to hang you from."

Take$$$

gotta take it to make it
Float attacks are always mid so you could just hold down and then d2 after block or whiff. Float is also very reactable, I think you might get to escape covering yourself with your jump normals but I doubt any pressure from it out of blocked strings will be real. Maybe on a jump in?
His traited j2/j3s beat out a lot of reversals depending on the char and what you cancel it with, and traited j2/j3 punish everyone's reversal backdash. But the reason that stuff is significant is that they're going to have to try to reversal your trait depending on what you do, or else you're building 1 1/2 to 2 bars and doing 30% chip while remaining completely safe, and almost everything after trait is guaranteed so they have to try to reversal during all that side switching trait nonsense if I end up being right once I get this down.
 

Marinjuana

Up rock incoming, ETA 5 minutes
His traited j2/j3s beat out a lot of reversals depending on the char and what you cancel it with, and traited j2/j3 punish everyone's reversal backdash. But the reason that stuff is significant is that they're going to have to try to reversal your trait depending on what you do, or else you're building 1 1/2 to 2 bars and doing 30% chip while remaining completely safe, and almost everything after trait is guaranteed so they have to try to reversal during all that side switching trait nonsense if I end up being right once I get this down.
What are you cancelling out of where they can't just d2 you on reaction? And why are you saying you build all this meter while being safe? Float J2 doesn't seem to jail into anything, where does the safety and chip come from?
 

Take$$$

gotta take it to make it
What are you cancelling out of where they can't just d2 you on reaction? And why are you saying you build all this meter while being safe? Float J2 doesn't seem to jail into anything, where does the safety and chip come from?
All these questions will be answered if I'm right, but like I said - IF - I am. I'm not claiming that it's real yet, especially since some of this stuff is kinda tricky to pull off day 1 and I haven't been able to play this game much at all for a while, so my bad execution is making every step take long af. Also certain stages help a ton but I'm trying to do it on gorilla city rn.
 

dribirut

BLAK FELOW
All these questions will be answered if I'm right, but like I said - IF - I am. I'm not claiming that it's real yet, especially since some of this stuff is kinda tricky to pull off day 1 and I haven't been able to play this game much at all for a while, so my bad execution is making every step take long af. Also certain stages help a ton but I'm trying to do it on gorilla city rn.
I have the character and I already had said that is not the case. Not even close..

There's no truth to what you're saying man
 
after your knockdown with db3 you do some pretty crazy stuff.
Bait wakeup, using trait and mobility you can pretty much whiff punish any wakeup.(do not mb b3 or f3 they are too slow and youre too minus)
meaty
throw

with b22 you want to use it as a restand mini combo into setup because its not optimal to use for damage. so if you use it as your meaty you hit b22 do trait into 2 cancel another b22 and use regular torpedo. then youve got a setup thats plus 18. this is what im looking into doing after the setup... either this or a jump in they have to guess. (atleast what im trying to attain, needs to be fleshed out more).They cant a2a they are too minus they will get hit by the jump in and wont even get off the ground. Certain d2s may be able to stuff this but im not sure cuz the gap between the rocket and a j2 is small, so small if youre playing against a scrub who will mash d2 theyll get hit almost everytime by just the jump in.
 
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Take$$$

gotta take it to make it
Since I'm bad and it's gonna take forever to get this down at this rate, here's this:


Can do it with d1 instead of 21, f2 strings and 2d3 instead of b1, add some db2 into b1 jailing, etc. F2 catches every backdash after the -2 laser that I tested it against, can trait immediately after and catch/beat almost everything, after the b11u3 use the crossup tech I posted and you'll beat out like everything, and more I don't feel like typing out rn.
 
Since I'm bad and it's gonna take forever to get this down at this rate, here's this:


Can do it with d1 instead of 21, f2 strings and 2d3 instead of b1, add some db2 into b1 jailing, etc. F2 catches every backdash after the -2 laser that I tested it against, can trait immediately after and catch/beat almost everything, after the b11u3 use the crossup tech I posted and you'll beat out like everything, and more I don't feel like typing out rn.
after a float 2 an opponent can immediately d2 you afterwards so i do not recommend doing a high right after that for sure. best thing to do after a float 2 on block is cancel and then youll be about minus 1 or 2. also youre minus 2 after his ex manta rays and your d1 is already 7 frames
 

dribirut

BLAK FELOW
Since I'm bad and it's gonna take forever to get this down at this rate, here's this:


Can do it with d1 instead of 21, f2 strings and 2d3 instead of b1, add some db2 into b1 jailing, etc. F2 catches every backdash after the -2 laser that I tested it against, can trait immediately after and catch/beat almost everything, after the b11u3 use the crossup tech I posted and you'll beat out like everything, and more I don't feel like typing out rn.
There are so many holes in this I don't know where to start.. cmon man
 

freerf245

11 11 11 11
Since I'm bad and it's gonna take forever to get this down at this rate, here's this:


Can do it with d1 instead of 21, f2 strings and 2d3 instead of b1, add some db2 into b1 jailing, etc. F2 catches every backdash after the -2 laser that I tested it against, can trait immediately after and catch/beat almost everything, after the b11u3 use the crossup tech I posted and you'll beat out like everything, and more I don't feel like typing out rn.
I don't get it. Whats stopping them from d2ing you out of trait or pressing buttons after bf1?
 

Take$$$

gotta take it to make it
after a float 2 an opponent can immediately d2 you afterwards so i do not recommend doing a high right after that for sure. best thing to do after a float 2 on block is cancel and then youll be about minus 1 or 2. also youre minus 2 after his ex manta rays and your d1 is already 7 frames
That's why you float over them and get the d2 to potentially whiff depending on which side the game lets the d2 come out on, and if they're doing that you can instead 2d3 trait to avoid d2 entirely if they try to do it on the trait cancel. Also b11u3 is out of range for a lot of d2s to win in time, and them crouching lets j3 hit after that string(or at least it does for some chars). Air rockets at that height is at least +2 or 3 if I tested it right, so d1 after beats out any followup is the point I was trying to make. And thankfully even though you're -2 on MB rays you still have a ton of options to cover anything they do, but that'd be a longer video than I care to make rn since I don't think I'll have the time.

There are so many holes in this I don't know where to start.. cmon man
There's a lot less than you think, but like I said I never claimed anything to be fact(and this isn't even the stuff I was talking about). Plus stuff like this has a lot of potential. You don't need everything about a sequence or setup to be guaranteed for it to be good.

I don't get it. Whats stopping them from d2ing you out of trait or pressing buttons after bf1?
See above for d2, and nothing after bf1 since any followup is entirely read based but you build the bar again no matter what you go for. Frame perfect buttons/directions after trait get you out of a ton of stuff compared to mashing buttons or holding direction, and a lot of it is entirely dependant on which string and what char.
 
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That's why you float over them and get the d2 to potentially whiff depending on which side the game lets the d2 come out on, and if they're doing that you can instead 2d3 trait to avoid d2 entirely if they try to do it on the trait cancel. Also b11u3 is out of range for a lot of d2s to win in time, and them crouching lets j3 hit after that string(or at least it does for some chars). Air rockets at that height is at least +2 or 3 if I tested it right, so d1 after beats out any followup is the point I was trying to make. And thankfully even though you're -2 on MB rays you still have a ton of options to cover anything they do, but that'd be a longer video than I care to make rn since I don't think I'll have the time.


There's a lot less than you think, but like I said I never claimed anything to be fact(and this isn't even the stuff I was talking about). Plus stuff like this has a lot of potential. You don't need everything about a sequence or setup to be guaranteed for it to be good.


See above for d2, and nothing after bf1 since any followup is entirely read based but you build the bar again no matter what you go for. Frame perfect buttons/directions after trait get you out of a ton of stuff compared to mashing buttons or holding direction, and a lot of it is entirely dependant on which string and what char.
No bro you dont understand thats a gimmick. you cant just avoid the d2 after a float 2 on block they can d2 immediately. nothing will avoid the d2 its too fast, you cant do anything but cancel trait or bf2. I believe the timing for a float 2 and the d3 after b11u3 is legit but after the j2 on block you cant get anything its minus not plus. air rockets are highs and can be ducked or stuffed out, if youre hit before the rocket hits itll disappear. The everything you do after you do a j2 is a gimmick
 

Take$$$

gotta take it to make it
No bro you dont understand thats a gimmick. you cant just avoid the d2 after a float 2 on block they can d2 immediately. nothing will avoid the d2 its too fast, you cant do anything but cancel trait or bf2. I believe the timing for a float 2 and the d3 after b11u3 is legit but after the j2 on block you cant get anything its minus not plus. air rockets are highs and can be ducked or stuffed out, if youre hit before the rocket hits itll disappear. The everything you do after you do a j2 is a gimmick
If the d2 comes out on the wrong side it'll whiff(for some chars anyway), and j2 harpoon gun beats out d2 mashing since it has a very tiny gap. You don't have to float j2 either(can test with j3, cancel stuff, etc), and you don't even need it to build enough bar to loop bf1 apparently. Plus you can also mb rockets if you're comfortable with that read(doesnt change much about that scenario tho), do ground rockets instead, etc. You can take out one part or replace it with something else and still build a bar each loop.

The point of this one is that he has options to deal with anything they can do, and with 1 or 2 good reads they're eating a ton of chip or raw dmg since it's self-sustaining.
 
If the d2 comes out on the wrong side it'll whiff(for some chars anyway), and j2 harpoon gun beats out d2 mashing since it has a very tiny gap. You don't have to float j2 either(can test with j3, cancel stuff, etc), and you don't even need it to build enough bar to loop bf1 apparently. Plus you can also mb rockets, do ground rockets instead, etc. You can take out one part or replace it with something else and still build a bar each loop.

The point of this one is that he has options to deal with anything they can do, and with 1 or 2 good reads they're eating a ton of chip or raw dmg.
J2 harpoon gun does not stuff d2s because it goes too far even the close one, only if they have a massive hit box and they go for a string instead of a d2 it maybe might hit. float 2 is the only one that will work everything else is a gimmick its too slow and too large of a fuzzy between up3 d2. you will be able to fuzzy everything else by blocking the overhead timing and then ducking, you will duck any air normal either than 2 and then press 2 while ducking for a whole fluid motion of d2. its not a loop, stop saying that its, its gimmicky pressure but youre always minus and more than 80% the stuff youre saying is gimmicks. i want to see one video of batmans d2 whiffing after you go for a 2 on block while float, without you doing a bf2 after.
 
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Take$$$

gotta take it to make it
J2 harpoon gun does not stuff d2s because it goes too far even the close one, only if they have a massive hit box and they go for a string instead of a d2 it maybe might hit. float 2 is the only one that will work everything else is a gimmick its too slow and too large of a fuzzy between up3 d2. you will be able to fuzzy everything else by blocking the overhead timing and then ducking, you will duck any air normal either than 2 and then press 2 while ducking for a whole fluid motion of d2. its not a loop, stop saying that its, its gimmicky pressure but youre always minus and more than 80% the stuff youre saying is gimmicks. i want to see one video of batmans d2 whiffing after you go for a 2 on block while float.
The only minus part that you have to do for good chip is the bf1, which is -2 but leaves you really far away. Depending on the char, you can effectively(but not actually) be neutral in that scenario, and fuzzying is irrelevant since the video is just trying to show chip potential with a good read or two. It is a loop in the context I already clarified, which is to mean self-sustaining. I never said it jailed as well. It's not a gimmick in the fighting game definition I'm used to, which would more or less mean that there's always a way to beat whatever it is that they're doing. Canary's 21 db2 on block is a gimmick. You have options here but Manta can always beat you out or avoid with a read.

For Batman you'd do f21 or walk slightly 2d3 instead, both of which work just as well if not better because j3 stuff works. If you're going to press buttons into trait immediately after the mb bf1 you'd ideally know what they can do to each string and your options against them.
 
The only minus part that you have to do for good chip is the bf1, which is -2 but leaves you really far away. Depending on the char, you can effectively(but not actually) be neutral in that scenario, and fuzzying is irrelevant since the video is just trying to show chip potential with a good read or two. It is a loop in the context I already clarified, which is to mean self-sustaining. I never said it jailed as well. It's not a gimmick in the fighting game definition I'm used to, which would more or less mean that there's always a way to beat whatever it is that they're doing. Canary's 21 db2 on block is a gimmick. You have options here but Manta can always beat you out or avoid with a read.

For Batman you'd do f21 or walk slightly 2d3 instead, both of which work just as well if not better because j3 stuff works. If you're going to press buttons into trait immediately after the mb bf1 you'd ideally know what they can do to each string and your options against them.
i dont think this is going to work you clearly think that those are options even though ive explained to you why they arent. this is just a repeating cycle now and i guess ill have to end it here.