Match-Up Discussion - Balanced Balanced Kenshi MU Thread, Does He Have Any In His Favor?

[MrProfDrPepper]

why? I've not grinded the kenshi mu but I don't see where goro would lose

the poopers post explains the match up really well

 

[the pooper]

why? I've not grinded the kenshi mu but I don't see where goro would lose

if goro gets in on kenshi, then yeah Kenshi will have a hard time. but with proper zoning kenshi can keep goro at bay and trouble getting in. Telefury will stop ground pound and his fireballs because its quick. I use both characters and fought against really good kenshi and goro players. It all boils down to reading your opponent. so yeah IMO 5-5.

 

[juicepouch]

if goro gets in on kenshi, then yeah Kenshi will have a hard time. but with proper zoning kenshi can keep goro at bay and trouble getting in. Telefury will stop ground pound and his fireballs because its quick. I use both characters and fought against really good kenshi and goro players. It all boils down to reading your opponent. so yeah im0 5-5.

I don't see kenshi's zoning as good enough to keep goro out all game

I don't think I need to ground pound or telestomp to get in, what if I just block and walk in patiently? I'm just theory crafting, but I think kenshi's zoning is less "impenetrable fortress" this time around and more "you'll get in eventually" from my limited experience. Are his footsies good enough to contend with f3 and goro's pokes?

 

[Espio]

alright, so we have 1 confirmed 5/5 match up, we have stratagies against goro. on a separate note i think that summoner quan chi is 6-4 quan chi favor and cybernetic kano 8-2 kanos favor

Nothing is "confirmed" especially not with what's been provided. I don't know the match up, but nobody else can really say they do either. I'm not some godlike player, but reading that somebody knows how all three Goro variations do against all three of Kenshis variations should automatically be regarded as suspect and skepticism inducing.

Saying match ups are 8-2 already? Oh my....

People should honestly focus on strats for beating Kenshi's match ups instead of throwing out over the top numbers or explanations that aren't really substantive. I don't see how this helps anybody.

 

[MrProfDrPepper]

Nothing is "confirmed" especially not with what's been provided. I don't know the match up, but nobody else can really say they do either. I'm not some godlike player, but reading that somebody knows how all three variations do against all three of Kenshis variations should automatically be regarded as suspect and skepticism inducing.

Saying match ups are 8-2 already? Oh my....

People should honestly focus on strats for beating Kenshi's match ups instead of throwing out over the top numbers or explanations that aren't really substantive. I don't see how this helps anybody.

fair enough, my bad for saying confirmed. but i know the 8-2 does seem drastic but it is honestly what i think with kano and kenshis tools both put into consideration and both used at a high level, I face a cybernetic kano that i believe is equal to my skill level and our matches are always really close, and we both always do exactly what we want to and play our best, i then look back and see the score was 30 wins for him and 5 wins for me. I dont know it could be my ineptitude but it is what i personally believe, although im working on finding new tech to try and raise my chances against him. but as of right now, i believe that is the match up. also the point of this thread was to try and find ways to try and help kenshi beat his bad match ups

 

[tatterbug4]

why? I've not grinded the kenshi mu but I don't see where goro would lose

Kenjutsu can basically bully him with normals. Possesed can get zoning dmg. And can teleport for not so good pressure.
Balanced is I think the worst in this match up. Definitely not bad

Goro is a slow character and kenshi does have fast normals and projectiles and good meterless dmg and meter damage.

He's just missing mix ups

 

[the pooper]

I don't see kenshi's zoning as good enough to keep goro out all game

I don't think I need to ground pound or telestomp to get in, what if I just block and walk in patiently? I'm just theory crafting, but I think kenshi's zoning is less "impenetrable fortress" this time around and more "you'll get in eventually" from my limited experience. Are his footsies good enough to contend with f3 and goro's pokes?

Kenshi has b1 with decent range, but i like to use his spirit push to keep him out. Goro's f3 into punch walk is solid and can give Kenshi trouble, but as a Kenshi player I'm looking for that if he approaches, so spirit push (with meter if needed) helps a lot. And i understand where your coming from, i use goro too. and i'm not saying kenshi wreks goro all day, Kenshi is less effective this time around you're right, but I feel his zoning tools makes the match really close, and I'm basing this against the kenshi's and goro's I've played. Heck, maybe it's my knowledge with goro as to why i can stop him with kenshi, who knows? but with proper spacing it can be done.

 

[RYX]

Goro is a slow character

no he isn't

goro good kenshi bad

Goro crush puny man and wear his blindfold

 

[tatterbug4]

Kenjutsu can basically bully him with normals. Possesed can get zoning dmg. And can teleport for not so good pressure.
Balanced is I think the worst in this match up. Definitely not bad

Goro is a slow character and kenshi does have fast normals and projectiles and good meterless dmg and meter damage.

He's just missing mix ups

My bad just noticed this was balanced variation mu

 

[juicepouch]

Kenjutsu can basically bully him with normals. Possesed can get zoning dmg. And can teleport for not so good pressure.
Balanced is I think the worst in this match up. Definitely not bad

Goro is a slow character and kenshi does have fast normals and projectiles and good meterless dmg and meter damage.

He's just missing mix ups

What is different between possessed and balanceds zoning?

 

[Fractured_Shadow]

8-2s Sonya just like the MK9 version

What in the actual fuck? No... just......no

 

[MrProfDrPepper]

What is different between possessed and balanceds zoning?

the telekinetic slash hits over head and can catch you in the air, the demon slam hits low and cant hit you in the air

 

[fr stack]

no he isn't

goro good kenshi bad

Goro crush puny man and wear his blindfold

GORO NOT SLOW

 

[tatterbug4]

What is different between possessed and balanceds zoning?

Balanced has better frames on recovery and start up.

Possesed just has zoning and tp

But possesed also isn't all that good

These are just my opinions. I've fought good goros but none were any really good I think

 

[Cskillz302]

Balanced Kenshi seems like a pretty good character. Looks badass too.

@Cskillz302

I agree. Out of the 3 balance is my favorite. The matchups I'm having a hard time with is Erron Black (Marksman), scorpion and reptile. Cossner bodied my Kenshi. Granted it was my first playing reptile but he seemed to punish Kenshi left and right. Sonic fox got the best of me in a set. I felt comfortable against his outlaw variation but marksman... Yikes! Oh and scorpion. The fact I bait out the teleport and this dude can cancel it to make it safe erks me. All good tho... I need to adapt and learn every single matchup.

 

[TotteryManx]

Easily beats Mileens 9-1 as does most of the cast. She is in desperate need of buffs.

 

[Vagrant]

he isnt as good as you think, when a majority of kenshi players drop ship and there are only lik 5 or 6 kenshi players left, you know it is a bad situation

No. You don't.

 

[STRYKIE]

What in the actual fuck? No... just......no

I don't know if you were active on TYM during the MK9 heyday but Death is known for being a perennial Kenshi up-player. And probably doesn't realize that even in the Balanced variation he's still significantly different to his MK9 incarnation lol.

 

[MrProfDrPepper]

No. You don't.

Im sorry but my spirit is just really broken, I keep trying and trying to get better with balanced kenshi but it is just so insanely hard for him to keep up with the rest of the cast, i hope to god that i or one of my fellow kenshi players can find something with him that will make him good, but right now it isnt exactly brimming with hope since a majority of the cast can punish his zoning full screen among other things

 

[Vagrant]

Im sorry but my spirit is just really broken, I keep trying and trying to get better with balanced kenshi but it is just so insanely hard for him to keep up with the rest of the cast, i hope to god that i or one of my fellow kenshi players can find something with him that will make him good, but right now it isnt exactly brimming with hope since a majority of the cast can punish his zoning full screen among other things

Totally understandable.
(No Sarcasm)

 

[Immortal]

People are dreaming here saying Kenshi vs Goro is an even MU.

Just no. I love Kenshi (and im heartbroken atm, thou i still have hope NRS will fix him) and play(ed) him extensively but there is no universe where he can go even with a very good Goro player.

Reasons:

- No, Kenshi can't zone out Goro for long. Patience Goro player will get in, rather sooner then later

- No, Kenshi doesn't have fast normals, Goro however to some extent does (d3 is like 5 frames)

- Some Goro normals have really good reach (like d1)

- Most Goro strings are totally safe on block (especially vs Kenshi)

- When Goro gets in, Kenshi can just commit a harakiri

- Kenshi can armor out of Goro pressure.... oh wait NO. EX Punchwalk just go throu Kenshi armor, so Goro gives no shits about it

- Goro can literally armor throu any Kenshi zoning options from like 1/2 screen

- Goro 3d3 is like what? 5 frames? Its 2-hits so Kenshi can't even armor throu this

- Almost all Goro special moves are safe on block and i mean normal versions not EX.

- In Tigrar variation even his fireballs are totally safe on block (slightly - but not punishable)

and i can go on with this for days.... But seriously Kenshi just looses that MU imo badly.

 

[Vagrant]

People are dreaming here saying Kenshi vs Goro is an even MU.

Just no. I love Kenshi (and im heartbroken atm, thou i still have hope NRS will fix him) and play(ed) him extensively but there is no universe where he can go even with a very good Goro player.

Reasons:

- No, Kenshi can't zone out Goro for long. Patience Goro player will get in, rather sooner then later

- No, Kenshi doesn't have fast normals, Goro however to some extent does (d3 is like 5 frames)

- Some Goro normals have really good reach (like d1)

- Most Goro strings are totally safe on block (especially vs Kenshi)

- When Goro gets in, Kenshi can just commit a harakiri

- Kenshi can armor out of Goro pressure.... oh wait NO. EX Punchwalk just go throu Kenshi armor, so Goro gives no shits about it

- Goro can literally armor throu any Kenshi zoning options from like 1/2 screen

- Goro 3d3 is like what? 5 frames? Its 2-hits so Kenshi can't even armor throu this

- Almost all Goro special moves are safe on block and i mean normal versions not EX.

- In Tigrar variation even his fireballs are totally safe on block (slightly - but not punishable)

and i can go on with this for days.... But seriously Kenshi just looses that MU imo badly.

This is not how you break down a matchup.

Please describe the specific meta between the players not "Goros d1 has range and he has armor so he definitely beats kenshi". Please also describe the adjustments and progressions each player will make after each critical point in a matchup.

You don't just list off tools and disregard the human element of a match and the context of the engine. TYM needs to stop this.

 

[Vagrant]

And for the record. I'm not saying your character doesn't need help.

I'm all for having that conversation. I just want to make sure we're focused on the right things and not just drawing conclusions from generalizations.

 

[MrProfDrPepper]

And for the record. I'm not saying your character doesn't need help.

I'm all for having that conversation. I just want to make sure we're focused on the right things and not just drawing conclusions from generalizations.

I know and I thank you for being here to keep us in check to make sure that we aren't getting too down, but you have to understand our situation is just breaking our spirits hell I never thought I would say this but I may move kenshi to secondary

 

[Immortal]

This is not how you break down a matchup.

Please describe the specific meta between the players not "Goros d1 has range and he has armor so he definitely beats kenshi". Please also describe the adjustments and progressions each player will make after each critical point in a matchup.

You don't just list off tools and disregard the human element of a match and the context of the engine. TYM needs to stop this.

I didn't break down that MU i didnt even intended to and trust me i know how to do it properly.

Most of the "reasons" i listed is my observation of this MU which i played extensively + hours of training room and frame data, not a real break down and i never claimed it was one.

And no disrespect but i always laugh when somebody throws human factor into the mix. IMO it has no place in MU discussion.

It's obvious that skilled player can win even a very hard for his character MU with a noob player. There is no constant with "human factor" there for it shouldn't be accounted in MU discussion.

However tools, frame data etc are things based on which you can actually compare 2 characters imo. And in that regard Goro beats Kenshi hands down.