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Balance Suggestions: Perfect Legend, M2Dave, Forever King, THTB and PLAYING TO W1N

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Circus, for the most part, each of us only talked about the characters we play and know. FOREVER KING has a very good Raven, and I do not believe that he made any suggestions.

Anyway, the following characters definitely do not need any buffs.

Batgirl
Batman
Black Adam
Doomsday
Killer Frost
Green Lantern
Martian Manhunter
Superman
The Flash
Wonder Woman
Zod (the trait glitches must be removed, though).
doomsday does not need buffs

he needs some fucking fixes
 

SZSR

Champion
Happens to more than just Shazam. Happens against Green Lantern as well.

He definitely needs his meterburned Spin fixed to hit all chars mid. That MUST be changed.

I want to use escrima more as well. I think I am a decent escrima nightwing, but certain matchups shut it down for free simply because their moves are fast low starters (which make mids whiff) or they have a d1 that is less than -2 on block. As it stands, he has a 9f poke and a 10f standing mid. His faster starters get covered by pokes.
I think some tradeoffs have to be made man. Those bug fixes are technically gonna be buffs.

I don't know if you're familiar with League of Legends but there was a character called Rumble who had a similarish problem (bug didn't let him do all his damage), he had a 49% winrate before the bug was fixed (50% is considered balanced), after the bug fix he shot up to being one of the top 5 characters in the game(55% or 56% win rate) and the company nerfed him pretty badly afterwards (fixed him a lot later, but it took a while).

Will that happen here? I bet not, I hope not, dear god nerfing Nightwing, what's next, nerfing Joker and Shazam?

I'm just saying let's focus on fixing what's not supposed to be broken/missing before we try to make his bad matchups better.
 

Boodendorf

Bird woman!
Lol? Hawkgirl is in the top
Just because she may lose a matchup against Zod or someone that can control the air doesn't mean she is incapable of bodying most of the cast just because they can't catch her or have poor air normals to knock her out of the air
Yeah it's not like she has one unwinnable matchup and two (I'd say three but I don't know shit about zod) stupidly fucking hard matchups.
Sinestro, Deathstroke, Lex.
Then comes Batgirl, GL, Zod.

6 chars out of the cast that can completely stomp on her.

It's not just one or two bad matchups it's SIX with some that are just close to impossible.

So no, she doesn't have all the tools to win any match.
 

Jimmypotato

Mid Tier
Green Arrow - The most nerfed non top 10 character ever? Leave him the fuck alone. If anything he needs a damage buff. He needs his super to do mass damage unless he is in the corner.

wise words,

The good corner combo doesn't even work on all characters though, and it's still only 43 percent lol (meterless though so I can't complain, but it doesn't work on 5 characters and thats fuckin bullshit lol)
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Yeah it's not like she has one unwinnable matchup and two (I'd say three but I don't know shit about zod) stupidly fucking hard matchups.
Sinestro, Deathstroke, Lex.
Then comes Batgirl, GL, Zod.

6 chars out of the cast that can completely stomp on her.

It's not just one or two bad matchups it's SIX with some that are just close to impossible.

So no, she doesn't have all the tools to win any match.
get on and lets play fool
 

Crathen

Death is my business
You pay attention and do the next big patch with the last 8th DLC, then one final one 6 months after. We will be lucky if we get 2 more patches, I don't expect one with Zatanna
That's not how today's video games companies work , you don't hold a team of people for other 6 months because you have to patch a game for free , they're probably using a part of their team already on some other title , i think that they will be done after the last DLC with maybe another 1-2 month at max for a last patch.

It's either get 'em right now or die trying...it's almost a lose / lose situation for them.
 

TakeAChance

TYM White Knight
I think some tradeoffs have to be made man. Those bug fixes are technically gonna be buffs.

I don't know if you're familiar with League of Legends but there was a character called Rumble who had a similarish problem (bug didn't let him do all his damage), he had a 49% winrate before the bug was fixed (50% is considered balanced), after the bug fix he shot up to being one of the top 5 characters in the game(55% or 56% win rate) and the company nerfed him pretty badly afterwards (fixed him a lot later, but it took a while).

Will that happen here? I bet not, I hope not, dear god nerfing Nightwing, what's next, nerfing Joker and Shazam?

I'm just saying let's focus on fixing what's not supposed to be broken/missing before we try to make his bad matchups better.

His mids need to be mids. I think we can all agree on that. The fact that flash and others can duck under his staff standing 1's is really fucked lol

Escrima currently needs to be fixed one way or the other. Other than it's mobility, it's much easier to make people respect you in staff. As the game's meta evolves, the necessity of escrima is coming into play as people are getting better at baiting and whiff punishing. Backdashing is also crucial and good luck doing that in Staff. The problem is, as soon as someone touches you in escrima you are done. (for the majority of the cast) I just want a mid/poke 7-8f. That's it.
 

Jimmypotato

Mid Tier
That's not how today's video games companies work , you don't hold a team of people for other 6 months because you have to patch a game for free , they're probably using a part of their team already on some other title , i think that they will be done after the last DLC with maybe another 1-2 month at max for a last patch.

It's either get 'em right now or die trying...it's almost a lose / lose situation for them.

Yah I know, but I also know that they play on an IN house patch already so they are working on it on the Fly, I already know of one Green Arrow fix that is coming, but I know nothing else.

A gamer can dream that they will have learned from MK9 and hopefully either have a full complete game with final patch and let us know when they release the game of the year edition at christmas with a final patch that it is the final patch, or whenever that ends up coming out. Thats what I would like to see.

If you know it's the final patch, thats when you can really break the game down, because you know nothing is going to be changed.

But none of this will happen sadly lol :(
 

Jimmypotato

Mid Tier
I would love to see m2dave design a fighting game. No character would ever come out of either corner.

It would be Mario on one side of the screen throwing fire balls, and Mario on the other side of the screen throwing fireballs. and the fire balls would be safe on block.

Time outs 99% of the time.

;)
 

Red Reaper

The Hyrax Whisperer
Online
S - Add the option to search for ranked/player matches by region

S - The controls, in alt controls b, db, d, df, f moves will be reassigned to b,f to mirror normal controls.
Agree on this stuff. Especially the kontrols. I started off on alternate because of problems with inputs but then had to switch back to default in order to be able to wake up with BF moves on knockdowns with quicker rises. Also, to punish things like Lanterns might or Deathstroke's guns at ranges I kouldn't otherwise.

Gameplay
S - The corner, allow cross ups to occur at approximate shoulder level when opponent is hold back.
S- Across the board damage buff for Supers
Disagree on this stuff. The korner stuff is just hard, which is fair. The super buff would make yolo Supers even better which is just dumb especially for characters that don't have good yolo Supers.


For the Characters, here are my opinions after reviewing it.
Blue Letters mean I disagree with.

Green Letters mean I agree with.

Normal Letters mean it's an additional suggestion.

Flash
S- Increase damage scaling during trait
R- off of a low or high starter, flash is currently able to do 51-58% off one touch
Flash still has to chase people down and make those reads, the high damage he has is a good offset to the risks he has to take and the damage he takes just to get in..

S- decrease pushback on block of normal lightning charge
R- not punishable by a large amount of the cast d/t push back. Flash already has a reliable way to approach with dodge and forward dash.

Nightwing
S- Decrease block adv of MB staff spin from +18 to +6
R- um... +18? um... +40% of a bar of meter? lets do some math. if i have you cornered and i make you block a 1 f1 staff spin MB you are eating 5 of them for x5(.16 + .10 1.25 + 1.25 + 1.25 + 1.25 + 1.5 + 2.63) = 38.15% of chip damage... holy shit batman!
Something better would be to just reduce the amount of meter it builds. This way he doesn't take a real nerf but it stops him from having his MB Staff Spin only kost almost half a bar.. Reducing the amount of chip is also an option.

Batman
-- complete character that lacks a solid "get off me move"
123 or 113 in konjunction with his good backdash are solid defenses. Not to mention he also has a parry that actually make characters like Nightwing in staff think twice. D1, D1, D1 isn't all safe against Batman. Then he also has Bats..

S - none at the moment
R - As the game evolves, this character will emerge has one of the strongest. Although he will be susceptible to rush down, with appropriate bat management he is able to have a bat on screen at all times. This COMPLETELY shuts down most of the roster when cornered and batman is at three quarter screen range and no interactibles are available.

Cyborg
S- Instant activation of trait
R- This is a trait that requires a lot of time for very little gain
His trait is useless but it kould potentially break him if it was instant since hitbox players would probably be able to heal in between shots.

S- Decrease start up of Target Acquired
R- 110 frames is a lot, his zoning is one dimensional, allow more utility of target acquired.
The start up kan become ambiguous and if the opponent is dashing in it sets up traps. It's not that good right now but if buffed kan become overpowered if not handled korrectly.

Green Arrow
As suggested by Paulo. They should kontinue on with the fix to make him crouch when he does low arrows.

S- Remove the ability to cancel to super on block strings, retain the ability to cancel to super on hit
R- as it stands, GA is able to cancel to an unavoidable (exceptions Black adam and a few others) super on block of b21 and 111
He doesn't have a B21 string... But all his block strings into Super are escapeable by everyone's backdash, even B13, 111, and 33.
It's the invincibility frames on backdashes that allow you to do this.

With that said, I think if his kancel advantage returned but he lost his ability to kancel into Super on block it would be a good idea.

Superman
S - Decrease upward hit box of F2 and slight range reduction of f2
R- Superman jails most of the characters at the beginning of a match if just framed. most characters cannot back dash, jump or walk back. At least allowing characters to jump back adds a layer to the meta game. Superman can dash forward and punish. If a character reads/guess that then they can punish or throw. A move that is arguably a top 3 normal in the game has an incredible amount of utility. Its ability to anti air in situations where a character is nowhere near Superman's animation makes it extremely powerful.

S - Breath - 4 on block
R- If Superman did not have the incredible mobility/zoning options leaving breath in its current state would be appropriate. However, there are very few characters that have the ability to zone maintain pressure and essential lock down most characters. With that said, characters with fast starting b3 can MB and interrupt supermans pressure after f23 or f23 breath. If trait is active forget about that option though.
I think the better choice would be to make is -2 but leave him klose like if breath was pulling the opponent in. He still has a 6 frame d1, F23, and backdash but now it allows for the tides of pressure to change a lil bit.

S - Decrease overall meter gain and damage
R- Maybe nerf his damage a little bit in the corner from 71% to 61%. A rage f23~db3, 3~mbbreath, db3, 3xdf1 to 3 breath is 71% with rage.

S- Slight increase of trait recovery
R- as stated

Martian manhunter
-- no comment, further exploration needed
... did you guys hot fix the overhead tele after a b13? if the tele hits u are unable to combo now? he has an OTG off MB martian grab if you didn't know

Raven
- no comment

Aquaman
S - Increase recovery of trait
R - This is a character than cannot be combo'ed/punished unless juggled. There are many characters that are unable to get any damage on this character. A top 3 trait in the game. Leave it the way it is but make players have to use in more sparingly.
In my opinion, this trait shouldn't even exist but this is better than nothing.

S- Decrease chip damage of trident rush
R- it does 18% chip?

Wonder Woman
I don't know enough about her to make a solid judgement.

Scorpion
S- Increased damage
R- the last patch really toned down his damage in addition to his character build nerfs.

I think they should also increase the hitboxes on the second hits of F11, 21, and B12 so that they hit true mid and not wiff on the majority of the kast. (Increase the hitboxes downward not extending)

Hawkgirl
S - Allow clash of MB mace charge
R- ... allow clash, its multi hitting

S- Decrease recovery on mace toss
R- in a lot of case it can be jumped on reaction and punished by other zoning options

Shazam
S - Allow trait activation similarly to superman.
R - By increasing shazams damage potential in will increase the character's viability. In high level player, this is a character that is challenged maintaining pressure

S- 22 no longer backdashable
R- See above

S- B2 will hop over opponents sometimes
R- see above
Is this a suggestion?

S- improve block adv of d3 (currently -11)
R- See Above

Green Lantern
S - Allow push block of of minigun
R- Similarly to the balance of Aquaman's Trident. Require a player to burn meter if they do not want to eat the chip damage

S- F2 hits as mid
R- as described in the in game data
He doesn't need this in addition to all his other moves.

S- 223 rocket, adjust so the rocket hits all characters on hit
R- see above

S- Slight increase in trait recovery or decrease active time of the trait
R- As stated
Two very different changes.

Batgirl
- no comments

Lobo
Don't know enough about him to make a solid judgement.

Joker
S - Further Over all buff of trait
R - Joker is an extremely popular character that is very limited in certain matchups. One dimensional.
I don't think it's the trait that he needs. It's something else, just don't know what.

Harley Quinn
- no comments

Solomon Grundy
- no comments

Zod
- various glitches exist that I am sure NRS is aware of at this time with trait

S- MB kryp rifle to hit on all characters in combos as it currently whiffs on much of the roster
R- As stated

Lex
Don't know enough about him to make a solid judgement.

I feel that he is a character that is very hard to balance. if he has incredible zoning he will be a complete character... possible one of the best

BTW lex has an inf that works on the majority of the cast people do not know about :)
So nerf??

Catwoman
- no comments

DeathStroke
S- Return character to status prior to nerfs
R- This is another tricky balance. prior to nerfs, the character was tolerable in high level play. However, DS was extremely challenged for casual players AND CONTINUES TO BE!
No. Low gunshots were mindlessly repeatable before since characters kouldn't dash on block.

S- Low GS, return to pre nerf status though tighten up the window to MB so it can be jumped. With the allowed delay, players land on it. If MB'ed right away a lot of characters can avoid it with a jump and continue their approach.
No. What I posted above: Low gunshots were mindlessly repeatable before since characters kouldn't dash on block. Not every character's jump is good. Some float in the air for a while.. Forcing players to jump against projectiles that fast is dumb.

S - Air Gunshot, return to pre nerf status
R - Even when insta air'ed it can be duck and punish by nearly everyone in the cast.
No.

S- Slight improved startup of trait or activation on trade
R- Increase usage and viability of trait.
It's a really good trait but he doesn't need it.

Ares (from alucarD)
S - 223, second hit no longer whiffs on certain characters (hawkgirl, GA et cetera)
R- as above
Even though I'm an Arrow player. I agree.

S- D1 to trait uninterrupted or a 1-4 gap to hit mashers
R- Currently u are able to interrupt d1 to low trait
D1 is six frames and allows for mix ups otherwise. You kan also interrupt Arrow's D1~Low Arrow. Why should this be any different?

Killer Frost
- no comment

Doomsday
S - Decrease upward hit box of venom/mb venom, increase recovery on whiff
R- This has a phatom hit box that randomly hits high arc characters at the peak of their jump. reward a player for showing poise and anticipating this monster.
Not sure about this. This is at discretion.

S - Decrease behind the head hit box of earth shake
R- See above description, this hits behind his head where there is no animation.
lol...

Sinestro
S- B12, allow the 2 to hit as mid and remain -5 OR make b1 -3
R- Sinestro's largest hole is his mid range game. Give sinestro a footsies tool!

S- Improve block advantage of boulder currently -43
R- it is punished by every zoning tool in the game (for the most part). its used in anticipation of jumps, hard to react to low arc jumping characters. limited full screed usage in high level play. its a risk...

Only if they nerf the trait build up. He kan build a significant amount on knockdowns...

Black Adam
As suggested by Sabin. His strings when kancelled into trait should have push back. That way he doesn't have guaranteed damage like: A string into trait, then throw, guaranteeing damage even if you tech.

S- Decrease adv and meter gain of MB lightning
R- an incredible zoning tool that anti airs, hits low and trip guards... risk/reward

S- Increase recovery of trait
R- It has very good utility and one of the best match closers in the game. risk/reward

S- B23 minus on block or increase push back out of d1 range
R- a safe launcher that is 35% plus on hit confirm or +3 for continued pressure is too strong. Risk/reward to be considered here

Bane
S- ability to cancel Raging Charge in first few active frames
R- give him a juke... its very easy to jump for full punishes. give bane the ability to juke his opponents so its not so obvious

S- Venom x2 with 2 hits of armor and Venom x3 with 3 hits of armor
R- as stated
Seems too ridiculous. He needs something other than the quick remedy of armor.
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
i like sabins fix for black adam, make it pushback only when cancelled from so he cant use it as a sole keepaway tool
 

Crathen

Death is my business
Yah I know, but I also know that they play on an IN house patch already so they are working on it on the Fly, I already know of one Green Arrow fix that is coming, but I know nothing else.

A gamer can dream that they will have learned from MK9 and hopefully either have a full complete game with final patch and let us know when they release the game of the year edition at christmas with a final patch that it is the final patch, or whenever that ends up coming out. Thats what I would like to see.

If you know it's the final patch, thats when you can really break the game down, because you know nothing is going to be changed.

But none of this will happen sadly lol :(

I'd be nice knowing when the final patch is coming , but LBSH they're not going to announce that or forum shitstorms will be released and we'll be goin full-retard with people screaming for buffs / nerfs / fixes.

It's dishearthening thinking your favourite character will not be tournament viable ( that's valid if you're going out for tournaments ) and that's what i think all this buff/nerf/fix talk is all about , people that play to win will switch to top tier characters or prepare counterpicks , hardcore character loyalist will still pick their favourite character and lower their chance at winning and some character loyalist that play to win could drop the game after some time.

But we're talkin FG history 101 lol.
 

Cat

This guy looks kind of tuff...
JOKER
buff trait??? Thats the last thing he needs. He needs ways to open ppl uo and get some damage. F2 overhead and/or b1 into kow tank combos

Black Adam
B23 negative? Its start up is 15 frames, and all options after can be back dash and avoided.
His mix up game lacks with practically no low, but it's made up for with his frame advantage.
Having b23 negative will mean he gets pressured for making you block a 15 frame move.
Imo he is a strong a char but not OP.

Most of the focus should go to Buffing chars that need it. This will give them ways to fight the top chars.

Match ups arent well known just yet



Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2
 
did you seriously just say a "handful of characters at tournaments" and make a post about imbalance and then brought up mmh as one of ur points? seriously?

my bad mmh is all over the tournament scene and has been stocking up on the top 8s

lex has armor, a 6f punisher that gives a hard knockdown and probes to allow him to maneuver in a little easier

do u even play any good lex?

mmh and lex are 100% not comparable at all

thats like saying shazam and bane are alike cause they have command grabs

its better 2 hold off on posting on characters u dont know extremely well to avoid spreading poor information
i couldn't agree more man. lex is extremely close to be very very good. i said this in the original post that i think he is very hard to balance.
 

Jeffreys

Grundy think you handsome!
Superman's F2 needs to be high
Superman's trait should not break armor or other traits

Black Adam's MB Zoning should do zero push back
Black Adam's damage should scale heavily off divekick
Black Adam should be removed from the game at some point in the future

Batman J2 needs to only have active frames that are actually realistic, he already has a get in free card with bats, no need to give him an idiotic jump in as well.

Green Lantern's lift should damage scale far more
Green Lantern's minigun should be able to be pushblocked

Wonderwoman should not have OTG's
Both of Wonderwoman's air charge's must be punishable by the entire cast

Grundy needs to be allowed to have all the traits active, make it so each time you do a pain chain it only increases x1 instead of x2 so you would need a total of six grabs in the game to have all traits at max.

Fix Zod's glitches

Flash's charge gets much less pushback
 
No, they just throw out that her OTG is '+6'

Without mentioning that its height specific, and if you choose to do it at a certain height you lose certain options from it etc etc.

Also, wtf would you change anything about her lasso grab for, she can't do anything when its blocked anyway because the pushback is too much, its so slow to come out, and can be ducked.
it has been said that otg's were not intended to be in the game.
 
Yeah rightfully so too, you guys have NO clue about my character, yet can still be the judge jury and executioner?

People still aren't even recognising her shield stance as a thing, I'm pretty sure it'd be something you'd hate.

On top of that, the OTG isnt the move that could possibly be justified for a nerf. She has another move thats pretty powerful/annoying that everybody just seems to completely let slide. But, it works to her design pretty well.
if foxy doesn't say it then it must be wrong. extremely scrubish to suggest all of us have no clue about this character.
 

drywall

Noob
Faster walkspeeds all around.

Has anyone mentioned the option of being able to find opponents based on their skill level like SF? And some kind of connection indicator (good, fair, poor) would be great.