PLAYING TO WIN
Champion
With a balance patch confirmed "in progress" for Injustice: Gods Among Us tournament players, PLAYING TO W1N, m2dave, FOREVER KING, FNATIC|Perfect Legend and THTB have compiled a long list of changes and suggestions they will would suite in the upcoming patch. As you can see from the notes below, many changes and suggestions are debatable while others the masses will agree with. Read down through their thoughts on what changes should be made to Injustice in the future and see if you agree!
~ STORMS
Injustice Gameplay and Balance Suggestions (consensus, original thoughts posted below)
By: Perfect Legend, general m2dave, PLAYING TO W1N, FOREVER KING and THTB
Tag: GGA Slips, GGA 16 Bit, colt, STORMS
Suggestion (S)
Rationale (R)
Note:
When considering balance for characters, in our opinion, you have to think about how the changes will affect tournament play, casual play and match up specifics. It is easy to be selfish when making a list like this though we attempted to stay extremely unbiased. In our collective opinion, we prefer to see buffs over nerfs. Lets make the weaker characters stronger so we can see an extremely large variety in the tournament setting.
Online
S - Add the option to search for ranked/player matches by region
R- To maximize the online players experience. This is a function that will improve overall game play experience of all levels of players.
Gameplay
S - The corner, allow cross ups to occur at approximate shoulder level when opponent is hold back.
R- With the current system, the timing to perform a cross up attack is extremely strict. You need to wait to hit the button around the opponents knees to guarantee a cross up. Again this is only if the opponent is holding back.
S - The controls, in alt controls b, db, d, df, f moves will be reassigned to b,f to mirror normal controls.
R- as Paulo stated in a thread sometime ago the d, d/b glitch is well know and it was the main reason for the inclusion of alt controls. Other than xbox pads and arcade sticks... the PS2/3 pad is extremely unreliable for d/f and d/b inputs. I would go on a limb and say that 90% of the community utilizes ps2/3 pads. The d, d/b glitch is an absolute game changer. If the d, d/b glitch did not exist then there would be absolute no reason to use alt controls.
S- Across the board damage buff for Supers
R- Unless it is to kill or catch up in life, there is little use of supers. Reward a player for landing a super and burning their entire stock. Supers are amazing and incredibly hype in this game. Lets make supers worth it for the fans!!!!! Return to evo top 8? How many of these hype animations did NRS get to show off on the main stage? 1... supermans.
Characters
Flash
S- Increase damage scaling during trait
R- off of a low or high starter, flash is currently able to do 51-58% off one touch
S- decrease pushback on block of normal lightning charge
R- not punishable by a large amount of the cast d/t push back. Flash already has a reliable way to approach with dodge and forward dash.
Nightwing
S- Decrease block adv of MB staff spin from +18 to +6
R- um... +18? um... +40% of a bar of meter? lets do some math. if i have you cornered and i make you block a 1 f1 staff spin MB you are eating 5 of them for x5(.16 + .10 1.25 + 1.25 + 1.25 + 1.25 + 1.5 + 2.63) = 38.15% of chip damage... holy shit batman!
Batman
-- complete character that lacks a solid "get off me move"
-- there is much debate among us though no consensus. it all comes down to bat management.
S - none at the moment
R - As the game evolves, this character will emerge has one of the strongest. Although he will be susceptible to rush down, with appropriate bat management he is able to have a bat on screen at all times. This COMPLETELY shuts down most of the roster when cornered and batman is at three quarter screen range and no interactibles are available.
Cyborg
S- Instant activation of trait
R- This is a trait that requires a lot of time for very little gain
S- Decrease start up of Target Acquired
R- 110 frames is a lot, his zoning is one dimensional, allow more utility of target acquired.
Green Arrow
-- no comments
Superman
S - Decrease upward hit box of F2 and slight range reduction of f2
R- Superman jails most of the characters at the beginning of a match if just framed. most characters cannot back dash, jump or walk back. At least allowing characters to jump back adds a layer to the meta game. Superman can dash forward and punish. If a character reads/guess that then they can punish or throw. A move that is arguably a top 3 normal in the game has an incredible amount of utility. Its ability to anti air in situations where a character is nowhere near Superman's animation makes it extremely powerful.
S - Breath - 4 on block
R- If Superman did not have the incredible mobility/zoning options leaving breath in its current state would be appropriate. However, there are very few characters that have the ability to zone maintain pressure and essential lock down most characters. With that said, characters with fast starting b3 can MB and interrupt supermans pressure after f23 or f23 breath. If trait is active forget about that option though.
S - Decrease overall meter gain and damage
R- Maybe nerf his damage a little bit in the corner from 71% to 61%. A rage f23~db3, 3~mbbreath, db3, 3xdf1 to 3 breath is 71% with rage.
S- Slight increase of trait recovery
R- as stated
Martian manhunter
-- no comment, further exploration needed
... did you guys hot fix the overhead tele after a b13? if the tele hits u are unable to combo now? he has an OTG off MB martian grab if you didn't know
Raven
- no comment
Aquaman
S - Increase recovery of trait
R - This is a character than cannot be combo'ed/punished unless juggled. There are many characters that are unable to get any damage on this character. A top 3 trait in the game. Leave it the way it is but make players have to use in more sparingly.
S- Decrease chip damage of trident rush
R- it does 18% chip?
Wonder Woman
S - Decrease lasso grab to +3 or allow MB on block having MB version +14
R- A half screen, non MB command normal that is +14? This much advantage should require resources if keeping inline with the rest of the roster
S - Remove OTG or make -11
R - From my understanding OTGs are not intended in the game. Further, an otg that is +6 allows frost style resets for 40 % each rep while keeping the character completely safe.
Scorpion
S- Increased damage
R- the last patch really toned down his damage in addition to his character build nerfs.
Hawkgirl
S - Allow clash of MB mace charge
R- ... allow clash, its multi hitting
S- Decrease recovery on mace toss
R- in a lot of case it can be jumped on reaction and punished by other zoning options
Shazam
S - Allow trait activation similarly to superman.
R - By increasing shazams damage potential in will increase the character's viability. In high level player, this is a character that is challenged maintaining pressure
S- 22 no longer backdashable
R- See above
S- B2 will hop over opponents sometimes
R- see above
S- improve block adv of d3 (currently -11)
R- See Above
Green Lantern
S - Allow push block of of minigun
R- Similarly to the balance of Aquaman's Trident. Require a player to burn meter if they do not want to eat the chip damage
S- F2 hits as mid
R- as described in the in game data
S- 223 rocket, adjust so the rocket hits all characters on hit
R- see above
S- Slight increase in trait recovery or decrease active time of the trait
R- As stated
Batgirl
- no comments
Lobo
S - Decrease mid/high hit box during forward roll/dash
R- This is a character that requires the usage of meter to deal heavy damage and is suceptible to zoning. Giving him and option to approach will increase his viability
S- Stock to barrels when trait is activated
R- Improve viability of his trait... it perils in comparison to other traits
Joker
S - Further Over all buff of trait
R - Joker is an extremely popular character that is very limited in certain matchups. One dimensional.
Harley Quinn
- no comments
Solomon Grundy
- no comments
Zod
- various glitches exist that I am sure NRS is aware of at this time with trait
S- MB kryp rifle to hit on all characters in combos as it currently whiffs on much of the roster
R- As stated
Lex
- as a note, this is a character that is just frames away from being extremely good. with an overall improved startup of projectiles he will improve. I feel that he is a character that is very hard to balance. if he has incredible zoning he will be a complete character... possible one of the best
S - 213 now +4 on block
BTW lex has an inf that works on the majority of the cast people do not know about
Catwoman
- no comments
Death Stroke
S- Return character to status prior to nerfs
R- This is another tricky balance. prior to nerfs, the character was tolerable in high level play. However, DS was extremely challenged for casual players AND CONTINUES TO BE!
S- Low GS, return to pre nerf status though tighten up the window to MB so it can be jumped. With the allowed delay, players land on it. If MB'ed right away a lot of characters can avoid it with a jump and continue their approach.
S - Air Gunshot, return to pre nerf status
R - Even when insta air'ed it can be duck and punish by nearly everyone in the cast.
S- Slight improved startup of trait or activation on trade
R- Increase usage and viability of trait.
Ares (from alucarD)
S - 223, second hit no longer whiffs on certain characters (hawkgirl, GA et cetera)
R- as above
S- D1 to trait uninterrupted or a 1-4 gap to hit mashers
R- Currently u are able to interrupt d1 to low trait
Killer Frost
- no comment
Doomsday
S - Decrease upward hit box of venom/mb venom, increase recovery on whiff
R- This has a phatom hit box that randomly hits high arc characters at the peak of their jump. reward a player for showing poise and anticipating this monster.
S - Decrease behind the head hit box of earth shake
R- See above description, this hits behind his head where there is no animation.
Sinestro
S- B12, allow the 2 to hit as mid and remain -5 OR make b1 -3
R- Sinestro's largest hole is his mid range game. Give sinestro a footsies tool!
S- Improve block advantage of boulder currently -43
R- it is punished by every zoning tool in the game (for the most part). its used in anticipation of jumps, hard to react to low arc jumping characters. limited full screed usage in high level play. its a risk...
Black Adam
S- Decrease adv and meter gain of MB lightning
R- an incredible zoning tool that anti airs, hits low and trip guards... risk/reward
S- Increase recovery of trait
R- It has very good utility and one of the best match closers in the game. risk/reward
S- B23 minus on block or increase push back out of d1 range
R- a safe launcher that is 35% plus on hit confirm or +3 for continued pressure is too strong. Risk/reward to be considered here
Bane
S- ability to cancel Raging Charge in first few active frames
R- give him a juke... its very easy to jump for full punishes. give bane the ability to juke his opponents so its not so obvious
S- Venom x2 with 2 hits of armor and Venom x3 with 3 hits of armor
R- as stated
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Original suggested changes by each contributor:
Perfect Legend
Superman
- f2 shouldn't be able to hit you at start of the match. It destroys most characters at the start of the match. He gets a free hit if you don't do anything but block or have a character than can crouch under f2 with a normal of their own. This gives him a free bar of meter then he can push you into the corner and the match is pretty much over if you guess wrong one more time.
Other than that he is fine. Maybe nerf his damage a little bit in the corner from 71% to 61%. A rage f23~db3, 3~mbbreath, db3, 3xdf1 to 3 breath is 71% with rage.
- Should have longer recharge time on his trait.
Green Lantern
- trait shouldn't recover that fast or stay active for as long as it does. Hes just as silly as superman at the start of the match and everything he does is safe. He is pretty much superman with viable mixups that are safe or advantage. He can keep hitting you and constantly loop you forever. On top of that he has the best special anti air in the game. I don't think his trait should be active for that long. I feel like his db2 special is too strong upclose after b13.
Wonderwoman
- Lasso grab shouldn't be so advantage on hit especially in the corner that it doesn't even allow for a wake up attack and lets her do pretty much whatever she wants after it hits. a Low/Overhead combo starter that loops the same situation and she advantage whenever she attacks you lol. Allow for a wake up attack after lasso grab please so Wonderwoman doesn't get free mixups in the corner. Its a vortex that isn't a vortex cause there is no risk for her.
Scorpion
- Where is his damage? Please give him a damage buff. His j3 was destroyed at least make it inbetween what it used to be and what it is now because he mineswell not even have a j3 the way it currently is. 2u3 doesn't hit some crouches like Green Lantern and Aquaman. Please fix this.
- MB teleport should be -5 or -6 on block not punishable. Jesus Christ lol.
Flash
- Why can people crouch mb lightning charge? That defeats the purpose of the attack cause now its a free punish for the opponent regardless if he does the meter burn version or not.
I honestly think the 2nd hit should jail.
Speed Dodge should go into invincibility frames faster on start up.
Shazam
- Atlas Torpedo should be -6 on block
- His teleport should go into invincibility faster on start up.
- Cancel into his trait mid combo like Black Adam and Superman.
Doomsday
- 2 hits of armor on MB Venom.
- Can doomsday combo into f23 after 123 hits again please like in the beta? Please?
Deathstroke
- Trait should have significantly faster start up. At this moment and time I feel like it is too slow to even use. No one uses deathstrokes trait and I feel like he has one of the most interesting traits by design in the game. Please make the start up faster.
Black Adam
- b23 should not be + on block it is pretty much Superman's f23 but advantage on block lol.
- Should have longer recovery on trait.
Lex Luthor
- All projectile special attacks should be faster on start up.
Cyborg
- Trait should have instant start up. It is as useless as DS's trait at this point.
Joker
- Trait should have more active frames but not as much as batman's parry.
Bane
- Bane can't hit killer frost with a venom boosted bf2 when she does a slide on wake up. Please
buff the hit box on bane's bf2 so it will hit. Bane should have two hits of armor for a lvl 3 venom boost.
Martian Manhunter
- Overhead teleport punch should not be safe on block.
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THTB
GL
-f2 and second hit of b23 hitting mid
-Slightly altering knockdown of 223 so that oa rocket doesn't whiff on smaller hurtbox characters
Shazam
-Torpedo safer on block (-8 or less)
-22 no longer backdashable
-Make b2 so that it doesn't hop over opponents up close
-d3 safer on block
-Trait slightly faster startup
Wonder Woman
-OTG no longer + on block
Aquaman
-Trait has longer cooldown, shorter duration (like 1.5/15-17)
Scorpion
-MB teleport less punishable on block (like -5 or -6)
Zod
-Trait glitch fixed ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Forever King
Black Adam has longer recovery on trait
Superman has longer recovery on trait and db2 breath to -1 on block. db3 and db1 Lasers have longer recovery
Aquaman have MUCH longer recovery on trait, I'm talkin like 20-30 seconds, and MB df1 should not be 18% chip damage, maybe 8% chip damage
Wonder Woman otg -6 on block instead of +6. Her df1 should not be +18 on block, because it leads to a block inf in the corner. Maybe +4 on block
Shazam should be able to cancel into his trait mid-combo like how Superman can
Solomon grundy should be able to have the Power chain, Defense chain, and Health chain all running at the same time.
Bane should be able to cancel his bf1, similar to how grundy cancels his walking corpse. Than he won't get full combo punished from full screen everytime it whiffs. Venom x2 should give him two hits of armor on his special moves and venom x3 should give him 3 hits of armor
Joker's parry should have more active frames and his Ha Ha Ha speed boost should just last until somebody does a super move or stage transition or wager
Arrow's b13 should have less cancel advantage, so that blocking b13 canceled into super doesn't automatically get you caught in his super
Zod's MB db1 should be fixed so that it works in combos against all characters, because right now currently whiffs against certain characters' hitbox heights
Lex Luthor should have faster start-up on db3 and dd3
Ares d1 into trait should be uninterruptable, right now you can interrupt his d1~trait with your d1 and if you do it wastes his trait and he has to wait like 15 seconds for it to come back
I don't play Lobo at all so I don't know exactly what needs fixed, but he definitely needs buffs
Cyborg's trait should have instant start-up and heal you MUCH faster. It currently has no use
Deathstroke's trait should have faster startup M2Dave
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M2Dave
I think the fact that Deathstroke has a great anti-zoning 10 frame special move, the best f+3 in the game, a very good anti aerial attack, superb wake up options, a safe 50/50 mix up, and above average (albeit worthless in many match ups) zoning and is still outside the top 10 speaks volumes about the game's lack of balance. The same is true not just about Deathstroke, but several other characters.
Here are my suggestions. Not all characters are listed.
Aquaman
- slightly more cool down between each trait activation.
Batman
- ability to push block MB batarangs in the corner to avoid 20%+ chip damage.
Black Adam
- 5% damage reduction on all combos.
- slightly more cool down between each trait activation.
Cyborg
- faster start up on missile.
- faster start up on trait.
Deathstroke
- significantly faster recovery on machine guns.
General Zod
- fix the trait glitch in which the monster keeps grabbing the opponent.
- fix the trait glitch in which if you hold down and tap 4, the monster bites the opponent.
- fix the trait glitch in which 4 can be parried by some characters.
- fix the trait glitch in which the trait does not track correctly sometimes.
- I know he has other glitches too. The best person to contact is Pig.
Hawkgirl
- significantly faster recovery on grounded mace toss.
Shazam
- atlas torpedo is -6 on block (as the in-game frame data suggests).
- significantly faster start up on trait.
Sinestro
- boulder is significantly safer on block. Same recovery on whiff.
Solomon Grundy
- 2 hits of armor on MB swamp hands.
Superman
- slightly less range on f+2, so that you are not forced to block in the beginning of a round.
- reduce corner damage from 70% to 60%.
The Flash
- more recovery frames when the lightning charge is blocked.
Wonder Woman
- corner OTG removed.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PLAYING TO WIN
Online
S - Add the option to search for ranked/player matches by region
R- To maximize the online players experience. This is a function that will improve overall game play experience of all levels of players.
Gameplay
S - The corner, allow cross ups to occur at approximate shoulder level when opponent is hold back.
R- With the current system, the timing to perform a cross up attack is extremely strict. You need to wait to hit the button around the opponents knees to guarantee a cross up. Again this is only if the opponent is holding back.
S - The controls, in alt controls b, db, d, df, f moves will be reassigned to b,f to mirror normal controls.
R- as Paulo stated in a thread sometime ago the d, d/b glitch is well know and it was the main reason for the inclusion of alt controls. Other than xbox pads and arcade sticks... the PS2/3 pad is extremely unreliable for d/f and d/b inputs. I would go on a limb and say that 90% of the community utilizes ps2/3 pads. The d, d/b glitch is an absolute game changer. If the d, d/b glitch did not exist then there would be absolute no reason to use alt controls.
S- Across the board damage buff for Supers
R- Unless it is to kill or catch up in life, there is little use of supers. Reward a player for landing a super and burning their entire stock. Supers are amazing and incredibly hype in this game. Lets make supers worth it for the fans!!!!! Return to evo top 8? How many of these hype animations did NRS get to show off on the main stage? 1... supermans.
Characters
Flash
S- Trait Damage nerf
R- off of a low or high starter, flash is currently able to do 51-58% off one touch
Nightwing
-- no comment
Batman
-- complete character that lacks a solid "get off me move"
S - Slight increase in charge time of trait
R - As the game evolves, this character will emerge has one of the strongest. Although he will be susceptible to rush down, with appropriate bat management he is able to have a bat on screen at all times. This COMPLETELY shuts down most of the roster when cornered and batman is at three quarter screen range and no interactibles are available.
Cyborg
-- no comment
Green Arrow
-- no comment
Superman
S - Decrease upward hit box of F2
R- Superman jails most of the characters at the beginning of a match if just framed. most characters cannot back dash, jump or walk back. At least allowing characters to jump back adds a layer to the meta game. Superman can dash forward and punish. If a character reads/guess that then they can punish or throw. A move that is arguably a top 3 normal in the game has an incredible amount of utility. Its ability to anti air in situations where a character is nowhere near Superman's animation makes it extremely powerful.
S - Breath - 4 on block
R- If Superman did not have the incredible mobility/zoning options leaving breath in its current state would be appropriate. However, there are very few characters that have the ability to zone maintain pressure and essential lock down most characters. With that said, characters with fast starting b3 can MB and interrupt supermans pressure after f23 or f23 breath. If trait is active forget about that option though.
S - Decrease overall meter gain
Martian manhunter
-- no comment, further exploration needed
... did you guys hot fix the overhead tele after a b13? if the tele hits u are unable to combo now? he has an OTG off MB martian grab if you didn't know
Raven
- no comment
Aquaman
S - Increase recovery of trait
R - This is a character than cannot be combo'ed/punished unless juggled. There are many characters that are unable to get any damage on this character. A top 3 trait in the game. Leave it the way it is but make players have to use in more sparingly.
Wonder Woman
S - Decrease lasso grab to +3 or allow MB on block having MB version +14
R- A half screen, non MB command normal that is +14? This much advantage should require resources if keeping inline with the rest of the roster
S - Remove OTG or make -11
R - From my understanding OTGs are not intended in the game. Further, an otg that is +6 allows frost style resets for 40 % each rep while keeping the character completely safe.
Scorpian
-- no suggestions
-- IMO, the character is extremely well balanced post patch
Hawkgirl
S - Allow clash of MB mace charge
R- ... allow clash, its multi hitting
Shazam
S - Allow trait activation similarly to superman.
R - By increasing shazams damage potential in will increase the character's viability. In high level player, this is a character that is challenged maintaining pressure
Green Lantern
S - Allow push block of of minigun
R- Similarly to the balance of Aquaman's Trident. Require a player to burn meter if they do not want to eat the chip damage
Batgirl
- no comments
Lobo
S - Decrease mid/high hit box during forward roll/dash
R- This is a character that requires the usage of meter to deal heavy damage and is suceptible to zoning. Giving him and option to approach will increase his viability
S- Stock to barrels when trait is activated
R- Improve viability of his trait... it perils in comparison to other traits
Joker
S - Further Over all buff of trait
R - Joker is an extremely popular character that is very limited in certain matchups. One dimensional.
Harley Quinn
- no comments
Solomon Grundy
- no comments
Zod
- no comments, character still being explored
Lex
- as a note, this is a character that is just frames away from being extremely good. with an overall improved startup of projectiles he will improve. I feel that he is a character that is very hard to balance. if he has incredible zoning he will be a complete character... possible one of the best
S - 213 now +4 on block
Catwoman
- no comments
Death Stroke
S- Return character to status prior to nerfs
R- This is another tricky balance. prior to nerfs, the character was tolerable in high level play. However, DS was extremely challenged for casual players AND CONTINUES TO BE!
S- Low GS, return to pre nerf status though tighten up the window to MB so it can be jumped. With the allowed delay, players land on it. If MB'ed right away a lot of characters can avoid it with a jump and continue their approach.
S - Air Gunshot, return to pre nerf status
R - Even when insta air'ed it can be duck and punish by nearly everyone in the cast.
Ares
S - 223, second hit no longer whiffs on certain characters (hawkgirl, GA et cetera)
R- as above
Killer Frost
- no comment
Doomsday
S - Decrease upward hit box of venom/mb venom, increase recovery on whiff
R- This has a phatom hit box that randomly hits high arc characters at the peak of their jump. reward a player for showing poise and anticipating this monster.
S - Decrease behind the head hit box of earth shake
R- See above description, this hits behind his head where there is no animation.
Sinestro
S- B12, allow the 2 to hit as mid and remain -5 OR make b1 -3
R- Sinestro's largest hole is his mid range game. Give sinestro a footsies tool!
Black Adam
S- Decrease adv and meter gain of MB lightning
R- an incredible zoning tool that anti airs, hits low and trip guards... risk/reward
Bane
- no comments, futher exploration needed
~ STORMS
Injustice Gameplay and Balance Suggestions (consensus, original thoughts posted below)
By: Perfect Legend, general m2dave, PLAYING TO W1N, FOREVER KING and THTB
Tag: GGA Slips, GGA 16 Bit, colt, STORMS
Suggestion (S)
Rationale (R)
Note:
When considering balance for characters, in our opinion, you have to think about how the changes will affect tournament play, casual play and match up specifics. It is easy to be selfish when making a list like this though we attempted to stay extremely unbiased. In our collective opinion, we prefer to see buffs over nerfs. Lets make the weaker characters stronger so we can see an extremely large variety in the tournament setting.
Online
S - Add the option to search for ranked/player matches by region
R- To maximize the online players experience. This is a function that will improve overall game play experience of all levels of players.
Gameplay
S - The corner, allow cross ups to occur at approximate shoulder level when opponent is hold back.
R- With the current system, the timing to perform a cross up attack is extremely strict. You need to wait to hit the button around the opponents knees to guarantee a cross up. Again this is only if the opponent is holding back.
S - The controls, in alt controls b, db, d, df, f moves will be reassigned to b,f to mirror normal controls.
R- as Paulo stated in a thread sometime ago the d, d/b glitch is well know and it was the main reason for the inclusion of alt controls. Other than xbox pads and arcade sticks... the PS2/3 pad is extremely unreliable for d/f and d/b inputs. I would go on a limb and say that 90% of the community utilizes ps2/3 pads. The d, d/b glitch is an absolute game changer. If the d, d/b glitch did not exist then there would be absolute no reason to use alt controls.
S- Across the board damage buff for Supers
R- Unless it is to kill or catch up in life, there is little use of supers. Reward a player for landing a super and burning their entire stock. Supers are amazing and incredibly hype in this game. Lets make supers worth it for the fans!!!!! Return to evo top 8? How many of these hype animations did NRS get to show off on the main stage? 1... supermans.
Characters
Flash
S- Increase damage scaling during trait
R- off of a low or high starter, flash is currently able to do 51-58% off one touch
S- decrease pushback on block of normal lightning charge
R- not punishable by a large amount of the cast d/t push back. Flash already has a reliable way to approach with dodge and forward dash.
Nightwing
S- Decrease block adv of MB staff spin from +18 to +6
R- um... +18? um... +40% of a bar of meter? lets do some math. if i have you cornered and i make you block a 1 f1 staff spin MB you are eating 5 of them for x5(.16 + .10 1.25 + 1.25 + 1.25 + 1.25 + 1.5 + 2.63) = 38.15% of chip damage... holy shit batman!
Batman
-- complete character that lacks a solid "get off me move"
-- there is much debate among us though no consensus. it all comes down to bat management.
S - none at the moment
R - As the game evolves, this character will emerge has one of the strongest. Although he will be susceptible to rush down, with appropriate bat management he is able to have a bat on screen at all times. This COMPLETELY shuts down most of the roster when cornered and batman is at three quarter screen range and no interactibles are available.
Cyborg
S- Instant activation of trait
R- This is a trait that requires a lot of time for very little gain
S- Decrease start up of Target Acquired
R- 110 frames is a lot, his zoning is one dimensional, allow more utility of target acquired.
Green Arrow
-- no comments
Superman
S - Decrease upward hit box of F2 and slight range reduction of f2
R- Superman jails most of the characters at the beginning of a match if just framed. most characters cannot back dash, jump or walk back. At least allowing characters to jump back adds a layer to the meta game. Superman can dash forward and punish. If a character reads/guess that then they can punish or throw. A move that is arguably a top 3 normal in the game has an incredible amount of utility. Its ability to anti air in situations where a character is nowhere near Superman's animation makes it extremely powerful.
S - Breath - 4 on block
R- If Superman did not have the incredible mobility/zoning options leaving breath in its current state would be appropriate. However, there are very few characters that have the ability to zone maintain pressure and essential lock down most characters. With that said, characters with fast starting b3 can MB and interrupt supermans pressure after f23 or f23 breath. If trait is active forget about that option though.
S - Decrease overall meter gain and damage
R- Maybe nerf his damage a little bit in the corner from 71% to 61%. A rage f23~db3, 3~mbbreath, db3, 3xdf1 to 3 breath is 71% with rage.
S- Slight increase of trait recovery
R- as stated
Martian manhunter
-- no comment, further exploration needed
... did you guys hot fix the overhead tele after a b13? if the tele hits u are unable to combo now? he has an OTG off MB martian grab if you didn't know
Raven
- no comment
Aquaman
S - Increase recovery of trait
R - This is a character than cannot be combo'ed/punished unless juggled. There are many characters that are unable to get any damage on this character. A top 3 trait in the game. Leave it the way it is but make players have to use in more sparingly.
S- Decrease chip damage of trident rush
R- it does 18% chip?
Wonder Woman
S - Decrease lasso grab to +3 or allow MB on block having MB version +14
R- A half screen, non MB command normal that is +14? This much advantage should require resources if keeping inline with the rest of the roster
S - Remove OTG or make -11
R - From my understanding OTGs are not intended in the game. Further, an otg that is +6 allows frost style resets for 40 % each rep while keeping the character completely safe.
Scorpion
S- Increased damage
R- the last patch really toned down his damage in addition to his character build nerfs.
Hawkgirl
S - Allow clash of MB mace charge
R- ... allow clash, its multi hitting
S- Decrease recovery on mace toss
R- in a lot of case it can be jumped on reaction and punished by other zoning options
Shazam
S - Allow trait activation similarly to superman.
R - By increasing shazams damage potential in will increase the character's viability. In high level player, this is a character that is challenged maintaining pressure
S- 22 no longer backdashable
R- See above
S- B2 will hop over opponents sometimes
R- see above
S- improve block adv of d3 (currently -11)
R- See Above
Green Lantern
S - Allow push block of of minigun
R- Similarly to the balance of Aquaman's Trident. Require a player to burn meter if they do not want to eat the chip damage
S- F2 hits as mid
R- as described in the in game data
S- 223 rocket, adjust so the rocket hits all characters on hit
R- see above
S- Slight increase in trait recovery or decrease active time of the trait
R- As stated
Batgirl
- no comments
Lobo
S - Decrease mid/high hit box during forward roll/dash
R- This is a character that requires the usage of meter to deal heavy damage and is suceptible to zoning. Giving him and option to approach will increase his viability
S- Stock to barrels when trait is activated
R- Improve viability of his trait... it perils in comparison to other traits
Joker
S - Further Over all buff of trait
R - Joker is an extremely popular character that is very limited in certain matchups. One dimensional.
Harley Quinn
- no comments
Solomon Grundy
- no comments
Zod
- various glitches exist that I am sure NRS is aware of at this time with trait
S- MB kryp rifle to hit on all characters in combos as it currently whiffs on much of the roster
R- As stated
Lex
- as a note, this is a character that is just frames away from being extremely good. with an overall improved startup of projectiles he will improve. I feel that he is a character that is very hard to balance. if he has incredible zoning he will be a complete character... possible one of the best
S - 213 now +4 on block
BTW lex has an inf that works on the majority of the cast people do not know about
Catwoman
- no comments
Death Stroke
S- Return character to status prior to nerfs
R- This is another tricky balance. prior to nerfs, the character was tolerable in high level play. However, DS was extremely challenged for casual players AND CONTINUES TO BE!
S- Low GS, return to pre nerf status though tighten up the window to MB so it can be jumped. With the allowed delay, players land on it. If MB'ed right away a lot of characters can avoid it with a jump and continue their approach.
S - Air Gunshot, return to pre nerf status
R - Even when insta air'ed it can be duck and punish by nearly everyone in the cast.
S- Slight improved startup of trait or activation on trade
R- Increase usage and viability of trait.
Ares (from alucarD)
S - 223, second hit no longer whiffs on certain characters (hawkgirl, GA et cetera)
R- as above
S- D1 to trait uninterrupted or a 1-4 gap to hit mashers
R- Currently u are able to interrupt d1 to low trait
Killer Frost
- no comment
Doomsday
S - Decrease upward hit box of venom/mb venom, increase recovery on whiff
R- This has a phatom hit box that randomly hits high arc characters at the peak of their jump. reward a player for showing poise and anticipating this monster.
S - Decrease behind the head hit box of earth shake
R- See above description, this hits behind his head where there is no animation.
Sinestro
S- B12, allow the 2 to hit as mid and remain -5 OR make b1 -3
R- Sinestro's largest hole is his mid range game. Give sinestro a footsies tool!
S- Improve block advantage of boulder currently -43
R- it is punished by every zoning tool in the game (for the most part). its used in anticipation of jumps, hard to react to low arc jumping characters. limited full screed usage in high level play. its a risk...
Black Adam
S- Decrease adv and meter gain of MB lightning
R- an incredible zoning tool that anti airs, hits low and trip guards... risk/reward
S- Increase recovery of trait
R- It has very good utility and one of the best match closers in the game. risk/reward
S- B23 minus on block or increase push back out of d1 range
R- a safe launcher that is 35% plus on hit confirm or +3 for continued pressure is too strong. Risk/reward to be considered here
Bane
S- ability to cancel Raging Charge in first few active frames
R- give him a juke... its very easy to jump for full punishes. give bane the ability to juke his opponents so its not so obvious
S- Venom x2 with 2 hits of armor and Venom x3 with 3 hits of armor
R- as stated
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Original suggested changes by each contributor:
Perfect Legend
Superman
- f2 shouldn't be able to hit you at start of the match. It destroys most characters at the start of the match. He gets a free hit if you don't do anything but block or have a character than can crouch under f2 with a normal of their own. This gives him a free bar of meter then he can push you into the corner and the match is pretty much over if you guess wrong one more time.
Other than that he is fine. Maybe nerf his damage a little bit in the corner from 71% to 61%. A rage f23~db3, 3~mbbreath, db3, 3xdf1 to 3 breath is 71% with rage.
- Should have longer recharge time on his trait.
Green Lantern
- trait shouldn't recover that fast or stay active for as long as it does. Hes just as silly as superman at the start of the match and everything he does is safe. He is pretty much superman with viable mixups that are safe or advantage. He can keep hitting you and constantly loop you forever. On top of that he has the best special anti air in the game. I don't think his trait should be active for that long. I feel like his db2 special is too strong upclose after b13.
Wonderwoman
- Lasso grab shouldn't be so advantage on hit especially in the corner that it doesn't even allow for a wake up attack and lets her do pretty much whatever she wants after it hits. a Low/Overhead combo starter that loops the same situation and she advantage whenever she attacks you lol. Allow for a wake up attack after lasso grab please so Wonderwoman doesn't get free mixups in the corner. Its a vortex that isn't a vortex cause there is no risk for her.
Scorpion
- Where is his damage? Please give him a damage buff. His j3 was destroyed at least make it inbetween what it used to be and what it is now because he mineswell not even have a j3 the way it currently is. 2u3 doesn't hit some crouches like Green Lantern and Aquaman. Please fix this.
- MB teleport should be -5 or -6 on block not punishable. Jesus Christ lol.
Flash
- Why can people crouch mb lightning charge? That defeats the purpose of the attack cause now its a free punish for the opponent regardless if he does the meter burn version or not.
I honestly think the 2nd hit should jail.
Speed Dodge should go into invincibility frames faster on start up.
Shazam
- Atlas Torpedo should be -6 on block
- His teleport should go into invincibility faster on start up.
- Cancel into his trait mid combo like Black Adam and Superman.
Doomsday
- 2 hits of armor on MB Venom.
- Can doomsday combo into f23 after 123 hits again please like in the beta? Please?
Deathstroke
- Trait should have significantly faster start up. At this moment and time I feel like it is too slow to even use. No one uses deathstrokes trait and I feel like he has one of the most interesting traits by design in the game. Please make the start up faster.
Black Adam
- b23 should not be + on block it is pretty much Superman's f23 but advantage on block lol.
- Should have longer recovery on trait.
Lex Luthor
- All projectile special attacks should be faster on start up.
Cyborg
- Trait should have instant start up. It is as useless as DS's trait at this point.
Joker
- Trait should have more active frames but not as much as batman's parry.
Bane
- Bane can't hit killer frost with a venom boosted bf2 when she does a slide on wake up. Please
buff the hit box on bane's bf2 so it will hit. Bane should have two hits of armor for a lvl 3 venom boost.
Martian Manhunter
- Overhead teleport punch should not be safe on block.
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THTB
GL
-f2 and second hit of b23 hitting mid
-Slightly altering knockdown of 223 so that oa rocket doesn't whiff on smaller hurtbox characters
Shazam
-Torpedo safer on block (-8 or less)
-22 no longer backdashable
-Make b2 so that it doesn't hop over opponents up close
-d3 safer on block
-Trait slightly faster startup
Wonder Woman
-OTG no longer + on block
Aquaman
-Trait has longer cooldown, shorter duration (like 1.5/15-17)
Scorpion
-MB teleport less punishable on block (like -5 or -6)
Zod
-Trait glitch fixed ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Forever King
Black Adam has longer recovery on trait
Superman has longer recovery on trait and db2 breath to -1 on block. db3 and db1 Lasers have longer recovery
Aquaman have MUCH longer recovery on trait, I'm talkin like 20-30 seconds, and MB df1 should not be 18% chip damage, maybe 8% chip damage
Wonder Woman otg -6 on block instead of +6. Her df1 should not be +18 on block, because it leads to a block inf in the corner. Maybe +4 on block
Shazam should be able to cancel into his trait mid-combo like how Superman can
Solomon grundy should be able to have the Power chain, Defense chain, and Health chain all running at the same time.
Bane should be able to cancel his bf1, similar to how grundy cancels his walking corpse. Than he won't get full combo punished from full screen everytime it whiffs. Venom x2 should give him two hits of armor on his special moves and venom x3 should give him 3 hits of armor
Joker's parry should have more active frames and his Ha Ha Ha speed boost should just last until somebody does a super move or stage transition or wager
Arrow's b13 should have less cancel advantage, so that blocking b13 canceled into super doesn't automatically get you caught in his super
Zod's MB db1 should be fixed so that it works in combos against all characters, because right now currently whiffs against certain characters' hitbox heights
Lex Luthor should have faster start-up on db3 and dd3
Ares d1 into trait should be uninterruptable, right now you can interrupt his d1~trait with your d1 and if you do it wastes his trait and he has to wait like 15 seconds for it to come back
I don't play Lobo at all so I don't know exactly what needs fixed, but he definitely needs buffs
Cyborg's trait should have instant start-up and heal you MUCH faster. It currently has no use
Deathstroke's trait should have faster startup M2Dave
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
M2Dave
I think the fact that Deathstroke has a great anti-zoning 10 frame special move, the best f+3 in the game, a very good anti aerial attack, superb wake up options, a safe 50/50 mix up, and above average (albeit worthless in many match ups) zoning and is still outside the top 10 speaks volumes about the game's lack of balance. The same is true not just about Deathstroke, but several other characters.
Here are my suggestions. Not all characters are listed.
Aquaman
- slightly more cool down between each trait activation.
Batman
- ability to push block MB batarangs in the corner to avoid 20%+ chip damage.
Black Adam
- 5% damage reduction on all combos.
- slightly more cool down between each trait activation.
Cyborg
- faster start up on missile.
- faster start up on trait.
Deathstroke
- significantly faster recovery on machine guns.
General Zod
- fix the trait glitch in which the monster keeps grabbing the opponent.
- fix the trait glitch in which if you hold down and tap 4, the monster bites the opponent.
- fix the trait glitch in which 4 can be parried by some characters.
- fix the trait glitch in which the trait does not track correctly sometimes.
- I know he has other glitches too. The best person to contact is Pig.
Hawkgirl
- significantly faster recovery on grounded mace toss.
Shazam
- atlas torpedo is -6 on block (as the in-game frame data suggests).
- significantly faster start up on trait.
Sinestro
- boulder is significantly safer on block. Same recovery on whiff.
Solomon Grundy
- 2 hits of armor on MB swamp hands.
Superman
- slightly less range on f+2, so that you are not forced to block in the beginning of a round.
- reduce corner damage from 70% to 60%.
The Flash
- more recovery frames when the lightning charge is blocked.
Wonder Woman
- corner OTG removed.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PLAYING TO WIN
Online
S - Add the option to search for ranked/player matches by region
R- To maximize the online players experience. This is a function that will improve overall game play experience of all levels of players.
Gameplay
S - The corner, allow cross ups to occur at approximate shoulder level when opponent is hold back.
R- With the current system, the timing to perform a cross up attack is extremely strict. You need to wait to hit the button around the opponents knees to guarantee a cross up. Again this is only if the opponent is holding back.
S - The controls, in alt controls b, db, d, df, f moves will be reassigned to b,f to mirror normal controls.
R- as Paulo stated in a thread sometime ago the d, d/b glitch is well know and it was the main reason for the inclusion of alt controls. Other than xbox pads and arcade sticks... the PS2/3 pad is extremely unreliable for d/f and d/b inputs. I would go on a limb and say that 90% of the community utilizes ps2/3 pads. The d, d/b glitch is an absolute game changer. If the d, d/b glitch did not exist then there would be absolute no reason to use alt controls.
S- Across the board damage buff for Supers
R- Unless it is to kill or catch up in life, there is little use of supers. Reward a player for landing a super and burning their entire stock. Supers are amazing and incredibly hype in this game. Lets make supers worth it for the fans!!!!! Return to evo top 8? How many of these hype animations did NRS get to show off on the main stage? 1... supermans.
Characters
Flash
S- Trait Damage nerf
R- off of a low or high starter, flash is currently able to do 51-58% off one touch
Nightwing
-- no comment
Batman
-- complete character that lacks a solid "get off me move"
S - Slight increase in charge time of trait
R - As the game evolves, this character will emerge has one of the strongest. Although he will be susceptible to rush down, with appropriate bat management he is able to have a bat on screen at all times. This COMPLETELY shuts down most of the roster when cornered and batman is at three quarter screen range and no interactibles are available.
Cyborg
-- no comment
Green Arrow
-- no comment
Superman
S - Decrease upward hit box of F2
R- Superman jails most of the characters at the beginning of a match if just framed. most characters cannot back dash, jump or walk back. At least allowing characters to jump back adds a layer to the meta game. Superman can dash forward and punish. If a character reads/guess that then they can punish or throw. A move that is arguably a top 3 normal in the game has an incredible amount of utility. Its ability to anti air in situations where a character is nowhere near Superman's animation makes it extremely powerful.
S - Breath - 4 on block
R- If Superman did not have the incredible mobility/zoning options leaving breath in its current state would be appropriate. However, there are very few characters that have the ability to zone maintain pressure and essential lock down most characters. With that said, characters with fast starting b3 can MB and interrupt supermans pressure after f23 or f23 breath. If trait is active forget about that option though.
S - Decrease overall meter gain
Martian manhunter
-- no comment, further exploration needed
... did you guys hot fix the overhead tele after a b13? if the tele hits u are unable to combo now? he has an OTG off MB martian grab if you didn't know
Raven
- no comment
Aquaman
S - Increase recovery of trait
R - This is a character than cannot be combo'ed/punished unless juggled. There are many characters that are unable to get any damage on this character. A top 3 trait in the game. Leave it the way it is but make players have to use in more sparingly.
Wonder Woman
S - Decrease lasso grab to +3 or allow MB on block having MB version +14
R- A half screen, non MB command normal that is +14? This much advantage should require resources if keeping inline with the rest of the roster
S - Remove OTG or make -11
R - From my understanding OTGs are not intended in the game. Further, an otg that is +6 allows frost style resets for 40 % each rep while keeping the character completely safe.
Scorpian
-- no suggestions
-- IMO, the character is extremely well balanced post patch
Hawkgirl
S - Allow clash of MB mace charge
R- ... allow clash, its multi hitting
Shazam
S - Allow trait activation similarly to superman.
R - By increasing shazams damage potential in will increase the character's viability. In high level player, this is a character that is challenged maintaining pressure
Green Lantern
S - Allow push block of of minigun
R- Similarly to the balance of Aquaman's Trident. Require a player to burn meter if they do not want to eat the chip damage
Batgirl
- no comments
Lobo
S - Decrease mid/high hit box during forward roll/dash
R- This is a character that requires the usage of meter to deal heavy damage and is suceptible to zoning. Giving him and option to approach will increase his viability
S- Stock to barrels when trait is activated
R- Improve viability of his trait... it perils in comparison to other traits
Joker
S - Further Over all buff of trait
R - Joker is an extremely popular character that is very limited in certain matchups. One dimensional.
Harley Quinn
- no comments
Solomon Grundy
- no comments
Zod
- no comments, character still being explored
Lex
- as a note, this is a character that is just frames away from being extremely good. with an overall improved startup of projectiles he will improve. I feel that he is a character that is very hard to balance. if he has incredible zoning he will be a complete character... possible one of the best
S - 213 now +4 on block
Catwoman
- no comments
Death Stroke
S- Return character to status prior to nerfs
R- This is another tricky balance. prior to nerfs, the character was tolerable in high level play. However, DS was extremely challenged for casual players AND CONTINUES TO BE!
S- Low GS, return to pre nerf status though tighten up the window to MB so it can be jumped. With the allowed delay, players land on it. If MB'ed right away a lot of characters can avoid it with a jump and continue their approach.
S - Air Gunshot, return to pre nerf status
R - Even when insta air'ed it can be duck and punish by nearly everyone in the cast.
Ares
S - 223, second hit no longer whiffs on certain characters (hawkgirl, GA et cetera)
R- as above
Killer Frost
- no comment
Doomsday
S - Decrease upward hit box of venom/mb venom, increase recovery on whiff
R- This has a phatom hit box that randomly hits high arc characters at the peak of their jump. reward a player for showing poise and anticipating this monster.
S - Decrease behind the head hit box of earth shake
R- See above description, this hits behind his head where there is no animation.
Sinestro
S- B12, allow the 2 to hit as mid and remain -5 OR make b1 -3
R- Sinestro's largest hole is his mid range game. Give sinestro a footsies tool!
Black Adam
S- Decrease adv and meter gain of MB lightning
R- an incredible zoning tool that anti airs, hits low and trip guards... risk/reward
Bane
- no comments, futher exploration needed
