Guide Azarath, Metrion, Zinthos -- Raven General Discussion Thread

[Owerbart]

Grats on the podium place

Green Lantern: been saying it all along \o/. Raven outzones him without issue. Up close he's a bit of a problem, but there are ways of putting him back full screen.
Superman: same (vs zoning Superman only) \o/
Black Adam: BA is actually quite free to Raven as she has an answer for absolutely everything he can do
Aquaman: Yep this is a very balanced match-up where neither side can afford to make a single mistake

Don't suppose the tourney was videoed/streamed?

Actually the stream was occupied full time by MK9 xD, in which I got 5th with Ermac.

 

[Owerbart]

Sami Not only against zoning supi. After f23 breath, you can do d1. Superman's F2 will whiff so a second d1 gives you a full combo

 

[Ryu Gosling]

Hey guys,

I've been a Green Arrow main since day 1 and have never picked up another character. I'm getting sick of the nerfs. Does someone with a good turtle game with random spurts of pressure have a good home here with Raven? I feel like she is being sleeped on and I can't figure out why, since I saw sooo many Ravens the first couple weeks. Whadup wit dat?

 

[Squeaker101]

Hey guys,

I've been a Green Arrow main since day 1 and have never picked up another character. I'm getting sick of the nerfs. Does someone with a good turtle game with random spurts of pressure have a good home here with Raven? I feel like she is being sleeped on and I can't figure out why, since I saw sooo many Ravens the first couple weeks. Whadup wit dat?

Yea, she's more of a anti-zoner/zoner. She isn't too great in pressure, but her normals are generally safe. The only ones worth mentioning are f222, which is neutral on block and leads to a full combo, 223, leaves you at +6 but can be interrupted between the second 2 and the 3 (also leads to a full combo), and b23, which leaves you at about -3, pushes the opponent full screen on hit and has slight pushback on block.

 

[Blind_Ducky]

MashPotatoTower

 

[MashPotatoTower]

MashPotatoTower

awesome lol I want one.

 

[Ryu Gosling]

So every character has quirks that may take a bit to pick up on when starting the character. (EG Green Arrow J1 whiffs, stuff not being as safe as the frame data says, bugged move.) Is there anything with Raven I should know?

 

[Sami]

So every character has quirks that may take a bit to pick up on when starting the character. (EG Green Arrow J1 whiffs, stuff not being as safe as the frame data says, bugged move.) Is there anything with Raven I should know?

Hmmm... for starters:

• d2 wiffs against crouching people except the big guys (Bane, etc).

• f2 works fine, f222/33/u1 works fine, but f22 (which isn't actually a move) messes up recovery frames in a bad way.

• Shadow Raven's frame data is completely wrong - at point blank it should be (give or take a frame) 0 on hit and about -14 on block. This obviously gets better the further away it hits.

There may be more that I'm forgetting, but it's early

 

[Sprint]

So every character has quirks that may take a bit to pick up on when starting the character. (EG Green Arrow J1 whiffs, stuff not being as safe as the frame data says, bugged move.) Is there anything with Raven I should know?

- f2 recovers 10 frames faster than f2,2 on hit, even though they're the same move. Never mash.
- 2,2,3 has a gap before the 3 that is vulnerable to counters and supers.
- Aim to have Demon Stance db2 trade hits with a projectile and Raven won't do the usual followup. The opponent gets left in a standing stunned state for a free combo.
- End a combo with Demon Stance db2~MB and the opponent won't get knocked down, so they can't do reversals if you go for a reset after it.
- Demon Stance df1 cannot be clashed. You can meter burn it multiple times in a combo and chain them together.
- Absorbing projectiles with db1 in Demon Stance gives about 3 times the usual meter. Nearly always hold down when you meter burn it as the vertical projectile is harder to avoid and provides a better combo opportunity.

 

[Sami]

Today I finally got my live account sorted out and properly went online with Raven. Soooooooooooooooo many dropped combos it was unreal. It's amazing how a fraction of lag can make most combos fail. Ended up resorting to using ji2 in the middle of most combos rather than ji3 as it dropped every time. Yet somehow, ji3, d1~db2 landed every time despite me often failing it offline. :netcode:.

Things I discovered:

1) Picking Raven is enough to make people rage quit instantly
2) Back to back Soul Crushes is enough to make people rage quit instantly (yes it's scrubby, but if it works...)
3) If you're lucky to get a second match out of somebody, they'll usually switch to Deathstroke.
4) I'm free to Deathstroke online
5) The rematch button apparently doesn't exist.

Most amazing part was having a Green Lantern player rage-mash his super while losing terribly, somehow have it hit and then quit half way through the cutscene for it . I was also dropping way too many ji2, 3 combos which was really annoying, something that I never do offline. Think I need to input the 3 earlier.

Oh:

6) I somehow lost all ability to out-zone superman with pillars. Every damn time I lost the trade. EVERY. TIME. ARGH!!!

 

[ZalliX]

Today I finally got my live account sorted out and properly went online with Raven. Soooooooooooooooo many dropped combos it was unreal. It's amazing how a fraction of lag can make most combos fail. Ended up resorting to using ji2 in the middle of most combos rather than ji3 as it dropped every time. Yet somehow, ji3, d1~db2 landed every time despite me often failing it offline. :netcode:.

Things I discovered:

1) Picking Raven is enough to make people rage quit instantly
2) Back to back Soul Crushes is enough to make people rage quit instantly (yes it's scrubby, but if it works...)
3) If you're lucky to get a second match out of somebody, they'll usually switch to Deathstroke.
4) I'm free to Deathstroke online
5) The rematch button apparently doesn't exist.

Most amazing part was having a Green Lantern player rage-mash his super while losing terribly, somehow have it hit and then quit half way through the cutscene for it . I was also dropping way too many ji2, 3 combos which was really annoying, something that I never do offline. Think I need to input the 3 earlier.

Oh:

6) I somehow lost all ability to out-zone superman with pillars. Every damn time I lost the trade. EVERY. TIME. ARGH!!!

Spamstroke can be hard, you just gotta play really patient, and watch for if they Deathstroke is spamming in a pattern, and exploit that.

If they Deathstroke is brave and wants to engage you, slow his advance with Shadow Ravens, and if you happen to knock him down, bait the advancing sword spin wake-up, and then use a db2 to punish. I believe Deathstrokes is one of the easier match ups, however he keeps Raven really honest.

I am not sure if I personally have played a lot of Supermans but it seems like they all do the same thing.

The first combo I try to land is the B23, demon mode, and as soon as they recover they all like to jump, I just spam pillars and keep them out constantly. b23, pillars, and EX db1d is your best friend.


Also its amazing you're not able to land j3 in combos but able to land j3 d1 db2

 

[Sami]

Spamstroke can be hard, you just gotta play really patient, and watch for if they Deathstroke is spamming in a pattern, and exploit that.

If they Deathstroke is brave and wants to engage you, slow his advance with Shadow Ravens, and if you happen to knock him down, bait the advancing sword spin wake-up, and then use a db2 to punish. I believe Deathstrokes is one of the easier match ups, however he keeps Raven really honest.

To be honest, it's been so long since I've played a deathstroke that I forget what punishes what. This player was mainly using the standing pistol/rifle attacks and I didn't know what the +/- was on block and got blown up hard for it. A bit of reading up will fix that!

I am not sure if I personally have played a lot of Supermans but it seems like they all do the same thing.

The first combo I try to land is the B23, demon mode, and as soon as they recover they all like to jump, I just spam pillars and keep them out constantly. b23, pillars, and EX db1d is your best friend.

Superman's air laser isn't an issue for me offline but oh god somehow I just messed it up over and over online . I got into demon stance straight away, just mis-judged the range of every single pillar lol. I had also completely forgotten that db1 worked in this match-up, so thank you for that. If I'm having pillar fail again I'll just resort to that

Also its amazing you're not able to land j3 in combos but able to land j3 d1 db2

ji2 was hitting, but the follow-up 3 just wasn't coming out :/. The 3 only gets buffered if it's input after the jump-in attack hits (or is blocked), so if there's a delay in the game realising ji2 connected, the 3 gets dropped.

 

[ZalliX]

To be honest, it's been so long since I've played a deathstroke that I forget what punishes what. This player was mainly using the standing pistol/rifle attacks and I didn't know what the +/- was on block and got blown up hard for it. A bit of reading up will fix that!

Rifle is super punishable on block by SC, and Regular guns is as well. The closer you are the easier it is to punish.

 

[Kiko]

The lag is crazy online. My 4 bar connection gets muffled by these 2 bar connections. They buffer hitting me because I haven't reacted in enough frames to process on their screens. I get so screwed.

I just stick to offline where EVERYTHING is punishable. xD

Raven is cake online though. The inputs are funny but once you get it, you get it.

 

[Sami]

Rifle is super punishable on block by SC, and Regular guns is as well. The closer you are the easier it is to punish.

Cheers. Lag was messing up my timings and I was failing at getting reversals out. I was also having a slightly dumb moment and forgetting about crouch/forward/crouch/forward which makes people panic.

The lag is crazy online. My 4 bar connection gets muffled by these 2 bar connections. They buffer hitting me because I haven't reacted in enough frames to process on their screens. I get so screwed.

I just stick to offline where EVERYTHING is punishable. xD

Raven is cake online though. The inputs are funny but once you get it, you get it.

Yeah getting used to it, but it's definitely far more screwed to reads than reactions compared to offline. My biggest blow-ups so far have been against WW and Flash, both of whom get great mileage out of laggy reactions. Also failing to punish the Ares teleport as well which is seriously annoying. Do it too early and you'll do the move the wrong way. Too late and.. well, it's too late. Except online I've no idea what's too early and too late.

ARGH it feels like I'm learning the bloody character all over again!! Finally getting some good matches from people though who know where the rematch button is (and as a disclaimer, I'm also picking it even if I lose). 3-4 man KOTH was fun, but full room KOTH is dull - too much time waiting.

 

[ZalliX]

Cheers. Lag was messing up my timings and I was failing at getting reversals out. I was also having a slightly dumb moment and forgetting about crouch/forward/crouch/forward which makes people panic.



Yeah getting used to it, but it's definitely far more screwed to reads than reactions compared to offline. My biggest blow-ups so far have been against WW and Flash, both of whom get great mileage out of laggy reactions. Also failing to punish the Ares teleport as well which is seriously annoying. Do it too early and you'll do the move the wrong way. Too late and.. well, it's too late. Except online I've no idea what's too early and too late.

ARGH it feels like I'm learning the bloody character all over again!! Finally getting some good matches from people though who know where the rematch button is (and as a disclaimer, I'm also picking it even if I lose). 3-4 man KOTH was fun, but full room KOTH is dull - too much time waiting.

Online training is awesome, It's like the Hyperbolic Time Chamber! . You'll be a stud offline , Just keep grinding it out

 

[Sami]

Online training is awesome, It's like the Hyperbolic Time Chamber! . You'll be a stud offline , Just keep grinding it out

Going to have to treat as an overview of the MU rather than high-level gameplay practice unless I get some lag free matches (and you know, people who actually press the "Rematch" button).

 

[ZalliX]

Going to have to treat as an overview of the MU rather than high-level gameplay practice unless I get some lag free matches (and you know, people who actually press the "Rematch" button).

It's because fighting Raven is hella annoying. Since most of our gameplay is off reads or punishing, and people don't have a lot of Raven experience because she underplayed etc. Fighting her can literally make you feel helpless and thats just not fun to get bodied. I hate mirror matches with Raven. -__- Just two players crouching at full screen lol.

 

[Sami]

It's because fighting Raven is hella annoying. Since most of our gameplay is off reads or punishing, and people don't have a lot of Raven experience because she underplayed etc. Fighting her can literally make you feel helpless and thats just not fun to get bodied. I hate mirror matches with Raven. -__- Just two players crouching at full screen lol.

Must be a mindset thing then. If I'm facing somebody who is completely kicking my arse I want to keep fighting them over and over until I work out why I'm losing. Annoyingly, I usually get beaten in KOTH and you can't keep practising against that person.

Thankfully I've managed to avoid the mirror match online. Done it offline and it was the dullest game I've ever played.

Anyway, cheers for the tips and enough of my whinging about online

 

[Sami]

Planning ahead slightly. I've got a new capture card arriving soon-ish (read: it's already late) and although I have some ideas on videos to post, I'd also like to get your feedback on what you would find useful. I'm not going to delve into complete match-up discussion as telling you how to deal with Grundy's 3 way mix-up applies to any character (read: fail and cry), more things that are specifically related to Raven.

The new ideas so far:

• Zoning "traps" for both normal and demon stance. Things like which combination of moves blows up dashes, jumps, etc (yes follow-up SC beats most things), optimal range to catch air-dashes, etc.
• Safe trait activation
• Reversing screen side during combos. Depending on the combo and when the move is used, you can often swap screen sides after a b3 or db2. Useful stuff to ensure your opponent gets put where you want them and you out of any danger.

The generic ideas are:

• Combo video, showing the different variations in the combos that make them easier/harder to execute with the trade-off being in damage.
• Execution training. Raven has some weird timings on combos/links that require practice. This would be a video showing the difficult parts in isolation allowing players to work on those areas. I'm including this because I'm so sad that I practice ji3, d1, df2 every day from different ranges and heights to ensure that I never drop it (because fuck NRS for not allowing j3 to buffer moves like j1 and j2 :'().

 

[Jackal904]

3) If you're lucky to get a second match out of somebody, they'll usually switch to Deathstroke.
4) I'm free to Deathstroke online

I see I'm not the only one. I thought I just wasn't good enough, but any good Deathstroke player will just tear me apart online. He is by far my toughest match-up. It's difficult to switch to demon stance against him, and it's simply so much harder to punish him online.

 

[Sami]

I see I'm not the only one. I thought I just wasn't good enough, but any good Deathstroke player will just tear me apart online. He is by far my toughest match-up. It's difficult to switch to demon stance against him, and it's simply so much harder to punish him online.

Never jump, walk forwards, Soul Crush punish everything. No need to get into DS in this match-up. I'd forgotten just how easy it the match-up is against bad DS players. Just be careful of getting too close as all those free wake-ups from SC give him wake-up sword flip.

You need to have far more patience than the DS player and always maintain the life lead. Yes, Soul Crush over and over and over is boring, but as is fighting DS in general

 

[Jackal904]

Never jump, walk forwards, Soul Crush punish everything. No need to get into DS in this match-up. I'd forgotten just how easy it the match-up is against bad DS players. Just be careful of getting too close as all those free wake-ups from SC give him wake-up sword flip.

You need to have far more patience than the DS player and always maintain the life lead. Yes, Soul Crush over and over and over is boring, but as is fighting DS in general

Thanks for the tips! I do have trouble with patience sometimes. I gotta work on that.

Unfortunately punishing can be very difficult online depending on the lag, but there's not much I can do about that.

 

[Trip Se7ens]

I really wanted to pick raven up, but her model is so bad -_- I keep hearing abut a player, Blind Man, and how good his Raven is, but can't find anything. Do Raven players just sit around and soul crush anything that moves? How do you guys face in your face chars like supes, bats, etc? And what about armor chars like lex, dd, and Grundy? She just seems to have so many bad match ups.

 

[Sami]

Disclaimer: this is not a "no don't go"/"stay"/"Y U NO PLAY?" attention seeking post.

Just letting the 5 posters in these forums know that I am dropping Injustice and probably fighting games as a whole. This was the first fighting game I've gone fully serious with but sadly the complete lack of offline in my area (for any fighting game, not just Injustice) is hindering pretty much any chance I have of a) getting better and b) getting an enjoyable game.

Online is fucking horrific, especially when I'm constantly being paired against transatlantic opponents and the couple of matches I've managed to get against someone in the same timezone were lagfests (and my connection is fine before anyone comments ). Even if I could compensate for the lag, it doesn't change the fact that fighting online doesn't make me a better offline player, especially when it comes to reacting to the opponent's mix-ups and the like.

Practice mode and frame data can only do so much. I actually want to play other people regularly offline, train with them and level up, but that simply isn't going to happen. The few people I was playing with all dropped Injustice, and while I could get some matches with them I would be fighting people with no interest or up-to-date skill with the game.

Apologies for the rather emo post, but I'm rather emo over this . Good luck, thanks for all the advice, and never EVER stop downplaying!




P.S. Any PMs/posts I've made about match-ups and projects recently can and should be ignored.