Question Ask Smoke Thread - Have Any Question? Post It Here!

[FrothyOmen]

Is the level of fall too high for a bigger punisher than that? The issue isn't hitting a difficult combo, it's just knowing what the best thing to throw out there is.

 

[SZSR]

Is the level of fall too high for a bigger punisher than that? The issue isn't hitting a difficult combo, it's just knowing what the best thing to throw out there is.

Well, i've tried following up the 32, with like a 4 smoke bomb (to follow up a jp kick air throw) or a 3d12, 4 teleportpunch but for these more complicated ones they fall too quickly.

That's really the only successful one you can get her out of the air with.

 

[Sage Leviathan]

What do you do against an opponent who's constantly jumping and kicking for almost no reason?
I try teleporting in the air, but i always miss.
And for some reason their jks have higher priority than mine, even instantly.
Not even NjPs seem to work. Help?

 

[FrothyOmen]

Push them towards the corner. If they keep jumping away from you, they're losing ground. Your oki pressure is way more likely to succeed in the corner, because enemies are usually not going to just get up and block, they're gonna try to wakeup. Stuff it/punish.

instant air Teleport Punch allows smoke to antiair>knockdown>oki pressure from anywhere on the screen, abuse that. Always missing you say? I'll go ahead and assume you're TPing too late and whiffing above them. Try a grounded telepunch, then, maybe it'll work out better for you?

If you're quick on the trigger you can EX Bomb them on the way down from their jump and pull them out of the air for a combo.

If you're a jedi, you can d1 dash d1xxbomb 3d12 f4 for 24% damage and a free chance at a damage reset if you are so inclined. or you can just jk xx airthrow.

It's not that their jump kicks have higher priority than yours, it's simply that they're doing them before you do and stuffing you. Online play will only make this harder

 

[kabelfritz]

If you're a jedi, you can d1 dash d1xxbomb 3d12 f4 for 24% damage and a free chance at a damage reset if you are so inclined. or you can just jk xx airthrow.

this is actually way easier than it sounds, d1 has a monstrous hitbox when you catch em falling.

 

[Solo]

Does Smoke MK2 outfit still have OTG Smoke Bomb or anything I should worry about.

 

[FrothyOmen]

I don't find it to be. I always get bodied by jips, I can never seem to d1 AA somebody ever. I've only ever successfully done it once out of 2000 games, and taken hundreds of jip>full combos trying. Either I suck horribly, or it's really risky. either could be completely true.

@solo: no that was patched out. all of smoke's costumes are the same now.

 

[kabelfritz]

I don't find it to be. I always get bodied by jips, I can never seem to d1 AA somebody ever. I've only ever successfully done it once out of 2000 games, and taken hundreds of jip>full combos trying. Either I suck horribly, or it's really risky. either could be completely true.

@solo: no that was patched out. all of smoke's costumes are the same now.

sorryi misread your post, i was talking about air to air punish, d1 anti air is really a bad idea i agree.

 

[FrothyOmen]

Does anybody use Smoke in 2v2s? I'm considering switching over to that format just to see if its any fun. If anyone's got any tips for how best to utilize smoke in a 2v2 I'd like to hear them for when I finally get to play this weekend

I was also browsing the scorpion forum a few minutes ago and saw a thread about "new tech" where scorpion was able to force somebody to stand up with a well-timed d3 after the enemy is put into a splat... Is Smoke able to do this too? Might it be useful if possible?

 

[noobharvester]

im not home until 11pm est but can something confirm that b23 is guaranteed after d4. is this true?

what are some good pressure tactics to follow up after a whiffed teleport?

i found a cool combo this morning which was anything into smoke bomb then f32, dash, 214, teleport or smoke bomb. after the whiffed teleport i am right nexto to my opponent. what are some good tactics to follow up with?

i was thinking of mixing it up between d3, cross over 221 smoke forward (through the guy) into cross over again.

or d3 smoke away smoke bomb, d3 smoke away into jump in punch. stuff like that but i dont know the optimal pressure tactics and could use help so i could remove those are are just fluff.

 

[arydious]

From what i can tell it is not guaranteed. You still have to feel the opponent out before dropping b23.

As far as the wiffed teleport apply pressure and watch for wake ups. Many people when your right there will try to down block so b23 works nice there. Also if they dont down block use pokes d3 d4 and d1, They are going to be trying to get out do use d1, if they try to jump you can d1 dash d1 smokebomb for full combo. Smoke has a ton of tools to use against people.

Another trick i like to do which really makes people made is 3 d1 2 on block i perform a njp. It hits most of the time because people try to get out. If they duck for the uppercut use either air grab to delay your fall or teleport. You will land right behind them on a teleport which can screw with them just as bad.

Hope this help

 

[EmInEnTShAdOw]

Hi all. New to the forums. Wasn't really sure where to put this post as I think my question is more matchup related. Anyway, I was playing a good Noob player and I was gettin pissed with Noob's upknee. The upknee makes it very difficult to pressure this guy because I feel everything becomes so 1-dimensional. I can't risk a jump in because of upknee. I can't oki pressure because of upknee on wakeup. At least with armored wakeups I can get an idea if its coming out based on the opponent's X-bar. Essentially, my only offense against this guy is low poke mixup b23 pressure. I can't even EX shake this thing on wakeup.

The only real solution I know as far as dealing with the upknee is teleport punch when I can try to bait or see it come out, but even this is somewhat risky because the upknee recovers so quickly. Any advice for better dealing with this thing? Thanks

 

[FrothyOmen]

Have you tried to just block and punish the upknee on wakeup?

 

[EmInEnTShAdOw]

Have you tried to just block and punish the upknee on wakeup?

I think it recovers too quickly.

 

[Big Pampering]

punish

I think it recovers too quickly.

you dont pressure noob saibot as a smoke player, trading tackles and smoke bomb is heavily in your favor, smoke towards is also one of the tools that make this smokes favorable matchup. noob needs too much time to recover from tackles, smoke trhoguh the tackle and throw a smoke bomb and start your combo

 

[kandehbar]

I cant test this atm but is B3 safe on block?

 

[FrothyOmen]

What's the benefit of using d3 over d1? d1 is faster and hits higher so it can antiair, but I see many smoke players opting for machinegun d3s instead. Why?

 

[kandehbar]

slower recovery, you can pull out more D3 at one time then you can D1. mix ups with his over head. most people only use down 1 either jail after 3-D1-2 or to stop a block string.

 

[G4S KT]

d3 is good for linking into d4 or d1, too.

I also like to d1 xx dash xx d1 xx dash (repeat) to annoy/fish for an instant AA. d1 feels much faster if you dash out of it.

I was actually playing a very good noob player on friday and was having a rough time; his buffs are serious. Regarding upknee, you can safely cross it up if you're standing directly next to them as they do it on wake up. This gives you a full combo.

Another FYI, EX shake needs to be retested; the properties of it have changed. It used to beat Sektor's low starting launch string but it doesn't any more. who knows what else is different.

 

[kandehbar]

I thought all shakes couldnt parry low hits

 

[FrothyOmen]

How in the hell do I beat Sub-Zero? I just played a bunch of matches against MK Kobra and I only won a single round by time-out.

He never slid outside of combos, and when he did it was a random, unpredictable EX slide. He always dashblocked in, and occasionally mixed in a jump to confuse me, and never ever blocked low so I couldn't get any b23 starters on him. Grabs worked when I tried them, but when I followed up with whiff telepunch he would punish me with a slide immediately. JIPs were worthless because he cloned on reaction.

I am completely at a loss for what I should have done against him, it's like Sub has me beat in every posssible way and no matter how "on the bright side" I try to look, I can't figure out a way to crack sub open. I've never struggled against him before, but this guy's on a whole new level of sub I've never played and it frustrates the hell out of me. All the while when I was playing runaway and winning I'm getting booed by the people that were watching on stream for being lame and not playing smoke correctly.

TLDR - got my shit wrecked by [MENTION=5938]MK Kobra[/MENTION] 's Sub-Zero. Want to strangle small woodland creatures. What do?
If there's a stream archive I'll link it tomorrow and give timestamps of my games...

http://www.twitch.tv/bbushes/b/297115770
starts at like 2 minutes in...

 

[G4S KT]

How in the hell do I beat Sub-Zero? I just played a bunch of matches against MK Kobra and I only won a single round by time-out.

He never slid outside of combos, and when he did it was a random, unpredictable EX slide. He always dashblocked in, and occasionally mixed in a jump to confuse me, and never ever blocked low so I couldn't get any b23 starters on him. Grabs worked when I tried them, but when I followed up with whiff telepunch he would punish me with a slide immediately. JIPs were worthless because he cloned on reaction.

I am completely at a loss for what I should have done against him, it's like Sub has me beat in every posssible way and no matter how "on the bright side" I try to look, I can't figure out a way to crack sub open. I've never struggled against him before, but this guy's on a whole new level of sub I've never played and it frustrates the hell out of me. All the while when I was playing runaway and winning I'm getting booed by the people that were watching on stream for being lame and not playing smoke correctly.

TLDR - got my shit wrecked by [MENTION=5938]MK Kobra[/MENTION] 's Sub-Zero. Want to strangle small woodland creatures. What do?
If there's a stream archive I'll link it tomorrow and give timestamps of my games...

http://www.twitch.tv/bbushes/b/297115770
starts at like 2 minutes in...

The video is only partially loaded, but I can't tell if the chopiness in the video is from lag or my shitty internet connection at work... was it laggy? It seemed like you were getting in on him plenty but weren't capitalizing. Playing with Smoke online is infuriating. Lag handicaps him so much.

Recently, I too have been running into a wall with Smoke. I've decided that if you're aggressive with Smoke before you get advantage (after a knockdown, d+4, shake, whatever) that you'll be eating shit in no time against people who know what they're doing. Cracking people is tricky with Smoke; it's actually better to avoid trying to. Just annoy them with pokes/run away smoke play until you can get an opening.

Also, there's a common misconception that Smoke is weak against rushdown. I don't find that to be the case. Smoke's toughest fights are against characters that can successfully play keep away.

 

[FrothyOmen]

It was pretty good as far as I remember. It obviously felt muddy and slow like all online does, but it wasn't *horrible*.

Could you go into a little more detail what you meant with saying I wasn't doing a good job of capitalizing when I got in? What could I have done differently/better etc. etc.

 

[G4S KT]

Sure, but I'll probably wait until I get home to watch the whole thing. Internet is downright atrocious at work. (T1 lines)

From off the top of my head I remember you doing jip > d1 which I don't think is all that effective. There was at least one time (maybe more) that you connected with a jip and followed with d1 where that could have been 40 some-odd damage. On block, jip's are best followed by 3d12 pressure & mix up, d4 into another trap, or an instant cross up punch.

Also, ice clones are punishable by smoke bomb on reaction offline, so right there would have dramatically changed the tide of battle.

 

[FrothyOmen]

Well, whenever you see me do jip > d1, it's a mistake. When I do the jip sometimes I just mash that 3d12 out too fast and the 3 drops, and d1 registers so I do that. You'll notice whenever i do jip > d1 i just sit there for a split second like something should be happening and it's not lol. That's literally all that's going on there. I've never considered jip > d4 > b23 trap though, I'll try to work that in