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Question Ask Smoke Thread - Have Any Question? Post It Here!

cgarcia6310

cgarcia6310

Noob
KT Smith said:
THREAD MOVED

Thanks for the compliments :)

Yea, AA is a HUGE part of my game with Smoke, and is just muscle memory/natural reaction now. It's also part of the reason I suck as an online player; AA-ing is near impossible.

As far as when to start poke pressure and what to follow up with, that's a harder question to answer and really depends on the habits of your opponent.
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haha np i wanted to go up to you and ask a few qs but you were with your girlfriend so i didnt wanna interrupt or anything. congrats on making top 8 tho real good show
 
smokey

smokey

EX Ovi should launch
KT Smith said:
through eyeballing it, and judging by other characters who have similar poke properties, I'd say it's about -13. Going for a roll punish?
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Are we really at that much disadvantage after a blocked poke? Am i reading it wrong or are you saying that characters with <13 frame normals can punish a blocked d1 with a combo, or can you block, im probably just being dumb, its been a long day at the office =.=
 
G4S KT

G4S KT

Gaming4Satan Founder
smokey said:
Are we really at that much disadvantage after a blocked poke? Am i reading it wrong or are you saying that characters with <13 frame normals can punish a blocked d1 with a combo, or can you block, im probably just being dumb, its been a long day at the office =.=
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In a word? yes

Characters with fast special mids (JC, Kabal, Shang, etc.) can straight up full-combo punish d1 on block if they're scouting it and have god like reactions (it's like a 2 frame window that happens instantly as the d1 connects on block). This isn't normally how it happens in practice, however.

This isn't due to any special characteristic of Smoke, though. Universally, the game mechanic is that d1 and d3 have (essentially) 0 block stun giving the entirety of the recovery of the move in advantage to the opponent. Smoke has the "good" set of pokes where d1/d3/d4 are 6f/7f/12f in execution, +1/+3/+15 on hit and -13/-7/0 on block. There are slight variations in this set of "good" pokes across the cast but you get the idea.

Then there are characters like mileena and scorpion who's pokes suck; Mileena's d1 and Scorp's d4 are -6 and 0 (respectively) on hit

Normally, the way this mechanic is applied is that when you block a d1 you can punish it easily with your own d1 or d3

so to more fully answer Death 's question, Smoke's d1 looks like this:

execution: 6f
hit advantage: +1
block advantage: -13

I can't tell you what the cancel advantage is on hit/block; we need someone like Somberness for that.
 
smokey

smokey

EX Ovi should launch
KT Smith said:
In a word? yes

Characters with fast special mids (JC, Kabal, Shang, etc.) can straight up full-combo punish d1 on block if they're scouting it and have god like reactions (it's like a 2 frame window that happens instantly as the d1 connects on block). This isn't normally how it happens in practice, however.

This isn't due to any special characteristic of Smoke, though. Universally, the game mechanic is that d1 and d3 have (essentially) 0 block stun giving the entirety of the recovery of the move in advantage to the opponent. Smoke has the "good" set of pokes where d1/d3/d4 are 6f/7f/12f in execution, +1/+3/+15 on hit and -13/-7/0 on block. There are slight variations in this set of "good" pokes across the cast but you get the idea.

Then there are characters like mileena and scorpion who's pokes suck; Mileena's d1 and Scorp's d4 are -6 and 0 (respectively) on hit

Normally, the way this mechanic is applied is that when you block a d1 you can punish it easily with your own d1 or d3

so to more fully answer @Death's question, Smoke's d1 looks like this:

execution: 6f
hit advantage: +1
block advantage: -13
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Thanks for the breakdown, i got that you can punish it with another poke, i do that enough, but yeah i was just surprised its so "punishable" on paper.

The blockstun/pushback/hitbox-alterations on most moves like that i can imagine make them alot safer than the recovery frames would dictate, aswell as the fact that 1 or 2 60ths of a second isnt a realistic time for your brain and hands to react to something like that :p

I wish there was an easy way to go about getting this information :(
 
D

Death

Warrior
Thanks for the info KT. I never knew if that was an online thing but a lot of smokes keep pressuring me with D+1. For example. I block a D+1 and i try and D+1 back with sonya but smokes following D+1 hits and hes on adv and it feels like a trap sometimes. But if i Block D+1 and the smoke follows up with smoke bomb can I not poke him out of the sb because hes -13 on block. Can smoke only get the smoke bomb if the D+1 hits. sorry if it sounds confusing.
 
MoFuzz

MoFuzz

Noob
Is Enhanced OTG Smoke Bomb guaranteed to hit for 10% after any combo or move? It seems to only connect if the opponent does not hold block.
 
G4S KT

G4S KT

Gaming4Satan Founder
Death said:
Thanks for the info KT. I never knew if that was an online thing but a lot of smokes keep pressuring me with D+1. For example. I block a D+1 and i try and D+1 back with sonya but smokes following D+1 hits and hes on adv and it feels like a trap sometimes. But if i Block D+1 and the smoke follows up with smoke bomb can I not poke him out of the sb because hes -13 on block. Can smoke only get the smoke bomb if the D+1 hits. sorry if it sounds confusing.
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Even if the d1 connects you can still cross up over d1 xx SB.
 
FrothyOmen

FrothyOmen

P!
I'm sick of trying to deal with Cage, Sonya, CSZ, and KL. Divekicks and armor out the ass does NOT bode well for Smoke. Considering picking up an alt character as a counterpick to these matchups. Who would y'all recommend that's at least 5-5 with all of these characters and shouldn't be too hard for my Smoke-Only self to learn?
 
G4S KT

G4S KT

Gaming4Satan Founder
I actually enjoy the Cage match up. Once you see his rush down enough and get used to what his strings look like and where the openings are he's not scary at all.

Also, this past thursday I was finally beating Riu48. I re-thought the match up and I realized something. Sonya really only has 2 ways to get in on you; d4 and dive kicks. If you suspect them to try and d4 you (and they will) throw a SB. Their d4 will hit but so will the SB. As far as jumping at you is concerned, if you really examine the trajectory of her dive kick, it goes nearly straight down. Maybe at like a 30 degree angle as opposed to KL and cyber sub whose dive kicks go more forward. Cartwheel is -3 or something on block, and even though you can't punish it, after you block one you're out of her pressure. Again, once you become familiar with her move set she becomes much less scary.

As far as an alternate goes, doesn't Subz beat cage, sonya, and CSZ?

Kung Lao is just a piece of shit.
 
FrothyOmen

FrothyOmen

P!
Sonya has a low hitbox and a safe projectile, not a chance in hell Sub Zero can beat her. However picking him back up primarily for Cage and CSZ is not a bad idea at all.

Considering Kabal, too. I play him and Sub Zero on the side about equally.
 
Faded Dreams V

Faded Dreams V

Retired June 2012. Unretired June 2013.
I used to hate fighting him, but Cage is one of my favorite matchups atm. Can be very challenging (online) if the opponent knows what they're doing (f0xxxyy!), but like KT said, it's just a matter of familiarizing yourself with his strings. You have to have very good spacing for this battle, and know how to D1 pressure. Also, you can punish his glowy kicks with B2 3. His upward kick can be AA punished with standing 2 and D1.

What's your issue with CSZ? From my experience, this somewhat favors Smoke. =P

Good Sonyas and KLs are just a nightmare online. I'm still trying to familiarize myself with the former matchup. And I have a bit of a mental block against KL, but I'm getting out of that. He's a lot easier to deal with in good connection. Just D1 his teleports, and anticipate his whiffed divekicks (the ones that close the distance).

If you're still looking for a good counter character, Kenshi is good for pesky Cages and Sonyas. His spirit charge also counters blocked non-safe divekicks from CSZ. Kung Lao will still be a nightmare though.
 
FrothyOmen

FrothyOmen

P!
I get fucked up by CSZ's divekicks. Whenever I play a good one they always hit me below the waist with them, so they're safe. I almost never get combo'd by him, but those divekicks man... i'm scared to even try antiairing him.

I've always liked Skarlet and Kenshi. However I'm cheap and haven't bought them.
 
GGA Wafflez

GGA Wafflez

the kid
Once Cage is in your face, it is extremely hard to get out... a poke might be taken out by the random advantage glitch on his f3 and then into full nut punch combo. Sure, knowing his strings is very helpful, but pokes are not guaranteed now. I have started to play strict runaway against cage, him getting in your face is inevitable. SB is not going to keep this dude out, so I have been making use of a lot more d4 smoke away, b23, or sb as JC dashes or tries to f3 or his other string (f2?). Red kick beats smoke port, as does f3 if you try to smoke out w/o poking to stop him from mashing f3 (which should never be done...). I can talk about this MU all day... one of two I have tons of problems with, KL being the second which is just dumb.
 
GGA Wafflez

GGA Wafflez

the kid
Then again, I might just be brain washed into thinking that cage is a broke ass and is a terrible MU for smoke.. We will see how Dizzy does at FR...
 
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