Ask Raiden Thread

[Fuzzymic14]

How do block infinite?

Take this mortal : http://testyourmight.com/forum/showthread.php?8321-Raiden-Block-Infinite

 

[CJKRattlehead]

It can be worth it, especially if it's a close match or someone's really close to death and you need to keep the pressure in your favor. I wouldn't go overboard with it, though. I'll occasionally throw one out, but mostly if I think it'll help me in the match (maybe my opponent is hyper aggressive and I need to keep him in place) and I already have full meter (so that using one will still leave me with breaker). With Raiden, I find that the best usage of meter (aside from breaker) is as follows:

Very useful: ex superman to plow through stuff and get damage and corner.
Useful: ex lightning bolt for keeping pressure and/or surprising an opponent (with the second hit).
Somewhat useful: ex shocker for armored anti-air/anti-pressure into 30% combo.
Occasionally useful: ex vicinity blast for keeping advantage in close matches against those that regular VB doesn't work on.
Rarely useful: ex teleport as mostly a parlor trick, but occasionally to keep an opponent honest about trying to punish regular teleport.

And of course there's x-ray, but that's just for the obvious extra damage boost if it'll win the final round or turn the tide of the match.

Ex Superman i wouldn't be wasting too much meter on simply because most of the time you can react to strings or projectiles with tele. Also ex shocker seems to rarely work for me considering slow start-up and very punishable on block. For me most of my meter seems to go to Ex Vicinity or Ex Bolts with possibly one X-ray every 2-3 games.

 

[shoshinsha]

Ex Superman i wouldn't be wasting too much meter on simply because most of the time you can react to strings or projectiles with tele. Also ex shocker seems to rarely work for me considering slow start-up and very punishable on block. For me most of my meter seems to go to Ex Vicinity or Ex Bolts with possibly one X-ray every 2-3 games.

The point of the ex superman is that you can blow through things. Yes, you can teleport, but it's not guaranteed anything except maybe an escape. With ex superman you get guaranteed damage AND probably corner your opponent. And yeah, ex shocker is slow, but you use it when your opponent is pressuring you and you turn their advantage into 30% damage for yourself. Stuff like this is obviously situational, but in those situations, they're very useful.

 

[Quito]

i have trouble raiden who do : teleport jump cross pucnh combo over and over
the combo :3,3,4 then flying or teleport again then jump punch 3,3,4
any advice?

 

[B W1zZ]

i have trouble raiden who do : teleport jump cross pucnh combo over and over
the combo :3,3,4 then flying or teleport again then jump punch 3,3,4
any advice?

After the teleport do a neutral jump punch to check them into a combo, this will make them think twice about trying to crossup after tele.

 

[DanableLector]

Genius! I really have never thought of that! Does anyone have any footage of the Vblast trap actually in use? I never use it.. and i keep forgetting to test it. Is it actually effective ? (on characters it actually hits)

 

[shoshinsha]

The VB trap is very useful (as long as you don't overuse it). I can't tell you how many times I've caught someone with f24, superman when they're trying to counterattack after blocking a VB.

Also, I just want to interject that I've found that doing some combination of Raiden's 1212 string canceled into teleport is a great way to screw with people, since it leaves them standing. I've caught people in a loop of a portion of that string into teleport into crossover jump punch into that string again so many times it's laughable.

 

[Raiman]

Ex Superman i wouldn't be wasting too much meter on simply because most of the time you can react to strings or projectiles with tele. Also ex shocker seems to rarely work for me considering slow start-up and very punishable on block. For me most of my meter seems to go to Ex Vicinity or Ex Bolts with possibly one X-ray every 2-3 games.

The point of the ex superman is that you can blow through things. Yes, you can teleport, but it's not guaranteed anything except maybe an escape. With ex superman you get guaranteed damage AND probably corner your opponent. And yeah, ex shocker is slow, but you use it when your opponent is pressuring you and you turn their advantage into 30% damage for yourself. Stuff like this is obviously situational, but in those situations, they're very useful.

Part of what makes Raiden so good is that meter can be used in so many situations with him.

1. EX VB - Continue pressure against characters that normal would wiff on.
2. EX lightning - Has advantage on block, can combo after.
3. EX shocker - Armor to AA cross up jump ins for 30% combos.
4. EX Superman - Punish fast recovering projectiles that a teleport couldn't.
5. EX teleport - I never use.
6. Xray - Safe and can anti air. Why not random xray if you can afford it?

 

[B W1zZ]

Ex teleport is excellent for mind games, but it's not something that should be overused, only on occasion to confuse your opponent into making a mistake. I don't use it very often, but i'd say it almost always grants me a combo...you really have to have a feel for your opponent and know when to use it.

 

[King]

I picked up Raiden about a week ago and I'm doing great so far using some of the tech on this forum. One of my main problems however is that I can't seem to consistently pressure my opponent as Raiden. If I try to do mid-string teleport mixups, I find that my opponent can just continuously poke me out of them. It also seems like pressuring with his strings isn't too good since most seem to be rather slow on startup (except F2,4.) So my question is, what do you Raiden masters do to keep the opponent pressured?

 

[CJKRattlehead]

So my question is, what do you Raiden masters do to keep the opponent pressured?

I may not be the most qualified to answer this however, I personally like to mix it up with a VB trap now and again or Tele mid string into f2,4 or grab. Ex Bolt seems to work occasionally tho i wouldn't rely on it completely.

 

[shoshinsha]

I picked up Raiden about a week ago and I'm doing great so far using some of the tech on this forum. One of my main problems however is that I can't seem to consistently pressure my opponent as Raiden. If I try to do mid-string teleport mixups, I find that my opponent can just continuously poke me out of them. It also seems like pressuring with his strings isn't too good since most seem to be rather slow on startup (except F2,4.) So my question is, what do you Raiden masters do to keep the opponent pressured?

Pressuring with Raiden for more than maybe 6 total seconds per match is playing Raiden sub-optimally. He's a mindgame and counter-pressure character. Fighting Raiden should be like handling the soap in the shower. You grab it, it slips out of your hand. You grab it again, it plops out onto the floor of the tub. You reach for it, but now the water's made it even more slippery, and it's even harder to grab. Now the shampoo's starting to run in your eyes, making them sting and making you grab even more frantically. Finally, you curse and give up on the damned soap, stand up, and wash your burning eyes out. Sighing in relief, you step back out of the water... right onto the soap.

 

[King]

Pressuring with Raiden for more than maybe 6 total seconds per match is playing Raiden sub-optimally. He's a mindgame and counter-pressure character. Fighting Raiden should be like handling the soap in the shower. You grab it, it slips out of your hand. You grab it again, it plops out onto the floor or the tub. You reach for it, but now the water's made it even more slippery, and it's even harder to grab. Now the shampoo's starting to run in your eyes, making them sting and making you grab even more frantically. Finally, you curse and give up on the damned soap, stand up, and wash your burning eyes out. Sighing in relief, you step back out of the water... right onto the soap.

My Raiden just improved 10 fold thanks to that brilliant analogy LMFAO! Next time I play as Raiden, I shall be one with the soap! LMAO!

But seriously dude, thanks for answering my question. I'll try to contribute some of my Raiden videos to the Raiden vids thread in these forums for analysis.

 

[shoshinsha]

My Raiden just improved 10 fold thanks to that brilliant analogy LMFAO! Next time I play as Raiden, I shall be one with the soap! LMAO!

But seriously dude, thanks for answering my question. I'll try to contribute some of my Raiden videos to the Raiden vids thread in these forums for analysis.

Glad to help, chief. Just wait for my analogy of the properly played "rematch" with Raiden, wherein I compare it to another battle with soap acquisition, this time in the all-male showers of a federal penitentiary. :wow:

 

[Big Frog]

I know you made a funny shoshinsha, but that was actually very, very good lol

Seriously immense post. Props.

 

[B W1zZ]

Pressuring with Raiden for more than maybe 6 total seconds per match is playing Raiden sub-optimally.

I have to disagree with this statement. It really depends on what character you are playing against. Raiden's up close pressure game revolves around mind games along with using pokes at the right times to fill holes in your offense. As far as I'm concerned playing nothing but hit and run is essentially playing Raiden sub-optimally. But it really depends on what character your fighting. It's all about being able to switch from defensive to offensive situationally.

 

[shoshinsha]

I have to disagree with this statement. It really depends on what character you are playing against. Raiden's up close pressure game revolves around mind games along with using pokes at the right times to fill holes in your offense. As far as I'm concerned playing nothing but hit and run is essentially playing Raiden sub-optimally. But it really depends on what character your fighting. It's all about being able to switch from defensive to offensive situationally.

I'm the one who made that statement, and although you say you disagree, I actually agree with your "disagreement." I think the difference is a matter of terminology. To me, "mind games along with using pokes at the right times" isn't pressure, it's mind games, which is one of the things that my original post talked about as central to good Raiden play. Putting mental pressure on your opponent is, IMO, not the same as the word "pressure" as used in typical fighting game lingo such as "pressuring the opponent" and "XYZ has a good pressure game." That, to me at least, refers to the ability to keep offensive momentum through frame advantage and safe attacks. Mind games can be offensive or defensive or neither, pressuring or retreating or both, but they are their own category, independent of "pressure games." But that's just my $0.02.

 

[Ruthlessbongsao]

When is the best time to be using f24? Ive been playing Raiden for a while now, but I have not been using f24 in my offensive game bc I am not sure when its best to use it. I guess if an opponent blocks the beginning of your combo string and expects to be able to punish?

 

[Vilén]

What do you guys use for anti-air? I've been trying to smack jumpers with standing 4 since it guarantees a superman vs an airborne opponent... to varying degrees of success.

 

[shoshinsha]

What do you guys use for anti-air? I've been trying to smack jumpers with standing 4 since it guarantees a superman vs an airborne opponent... to varying degrees of success.

1212 can be surprisingly good, but it's not foolproof. I prefer teleport and superman since they're super fast and, since my opponent has committed to the air, pretty hard to punish. Also, if you READ a jump, a quick back dash into b312 can work for a nice juggle. And if you want to spend the meter, an armored ex shocker leads to 30% damage.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

Well, I guy did this to me last night...


He would do whatever string... I believe it was B3, 1, 2 ... then I would try to jump and cross over... well, after the blocked B3, 1, 2 he did vicinity blast and it caught me every time into an uppercut (that's what he followed with), but I'm sure you could get a combo of it.

I usually just try jump kicking into superman myself.

 

[CJKRattlehead]

i've been using 1, VB, B312 shocker B31 superman recently as an anti crossup for 30% and am curious if i can manage more damage anyone got anyway to improve on this?

 

[Mr. Big Stuff]

Hey guys, I'm a Mileena player and I had been preparing Cage for a backup, but this latest patch has me frustrated. I'd like a second character I can feel more confident with, and Raiden so far is a lot of fun to use. I'd like to summarize my largely uninformed thoughts and get some opinions for going forward.

1. Combos
334~teleport F2 shocker 2 vicinity blast, superman (still getting a feel for the timing) (34%)
B312 dash B31~shocker 2 vicinity blast, superman (34%)
22~shocker 2 vicinity blast, superman (27%)
F24 superman (22?)

These are the combos I've been using. I know the F24 and 22 startups are much faster and the kicks have better range and more damage. If you think there are better combos, or easier combos, let me know. Also, I haven't learned anything for the corner yet, but I can of course check the combos thread for that. Just curious -- do people prefer the 334 starter or the B312? I prefer the 334 but I think it's a bit harder to pull off.

Also, are there any good anti air combos? I know jump punch connects to superman, but deals just 10 percent damage. Is the vicinity blast a good option as an anti air combo starter, or are there better options? (I've been messing around with it in practice mode, and I have had trouble connecting a B312. Seems like it might be unsafe if I whiff in actual gameplay)

2. Raiden's Defensive Options
I've read some comments and now I understand that Raiden does not have the best pokes. D3 is at least usable up close. After connecting you can try for F2,4. As a Mileena user I just want to mash D4 so forgive me if my learning curve is steeper. The teleport up close seems like it might be risky in that someone might try to bait it out and punish. Is the sweep viable? Just curious about what people say about his up close game, because I feel much more comfortable with a little bit of space.

3. General Strategy and Meter Usage
Raiden seems to be designed well for counter attacking and capitalizing on opponents mistakes. I'll be watching some videos later to get a better idea of how I'd like to play Raiden, but it's nice to see what people have to say about this. One last thing: Raiden's projectile is rather weak in my view, but the enhanced version might have some uses. Thoughts?

 

[shoshinsha]

As I always caveat my advice-giving posts, I want to say that I am definitely not the best player around here. But here are my thoughts:

1. Here's a copy/paste of a post I made earlier with what I consider to be all of Raiden's best combo options:
Mid-screen:
(for pressure or punish) f24, superman = 22%
(for really fast punish) 121~shocker, f2~vicinity blast, b3~superman = 29%
(for anti-air) ex shocker, f2~vicinity blast, dash, 334~superman = 30%
(overhead starter) f4, dash, b312~shocker, b31~superman = 31%
b312, dash, shocker, f2~vicinity blast, b3~superman = 35%
334~teleport, f2~shocker, f2~vicinity blast, b3~superman = 37%

Corner:
b312~shocker, f23~vicinity blast, f23~superman = 36%
f24, d1~shocker, f23~vicinity blast, f23~superman = 39%
(easy timing) 334~vicinity blast, f24, d1~shocker, f23~superman = 41%
(max damage) 334~vicinity blast, 4, 334, 33~shocker, f23~superman = 43%

Between 334 and b312 I definitely think the latter is superior. It has longer reach and a better hitbox, and leads to almost the same damage. There's no real reason 334 is superior except for 2-3% more damage, so I reserve it for punish or for situations where I absolutely need that damage.

Anti-air with Raiden is tough. It's usually better to just get out of the way with teleport at the last second and try to punish that way. One option (if you want to burn meter) is ex shocker, which has armor and can lead to 30% (see combos above). VB is ok, but not really exceptional and pretty risky.

2. Defensive options for Raiden are more situational than anything else, because a lot of his game revolves around counter-pressure. d3 is good for all the obvious reasons, but his d4 is pretty slow and so is sweep. You should learn how to read when your opponent is committing to some offense so that you can teleport or superman through it at the right time. F24, 121, and throw are good fast options when you're in close and not sure who has advantage, but don't be overly committed to anything. One of Raiden's strengths is that he's slippery as a bar of soap in a prison shower.

3. You read right that Raiden's general strategy revolves around counters and punishing. You're also right that his projectile is mediocre. But don't write it off. Throwing it out at range when it's safe is a good way to make your opponent feel pressured to come closer. For meter (besides breaker), all of his options have use. Ex projectile is a good way to get in safely or pressure on wakeup (the closer you are, the more delay there is on the second projectile hitting). Ex superman and ex shocker are for armoring through (different) things (see above). Ex vicinity blast is now kind of mediocre, but can be used for pressure occasionally. And ex teleport is so new that we're still trying to figure out the possibilities (see the other thread for more details).

Hope that helps. Raiden is (IMO) one of the best and most fun characters in the game, and skilled play with him is very satisfying. Good luck!

 

[B W1zZ]

What do you guys use for anti-air? I've been trying to smack jumpers with standing 4 since it guarantees a superman vs an airborne opponent... to varying degrees of success.

Uppercut is a good anti air since if hit high enough he can follow up with superman. Standing 1 or 2 into a vicinity blast (or shocker) followed up with a shocker combo can be good too. If they are close trying to cross you up you can do an ex shocker (input the command as they cross to the other side of the screen in the air). Ex shocker works for both jump ins and crossups. Also teleport is useful to escape jump in attempts if you can't react fast enough with other aa options or don't have meter for ex shocker.

Superman is generally useful against jumps or back jumps from a distance, and can be used to escape jump ins completely by going underneath them...after which you can follow up with a projectile, superman (unsafe, use to punish if they do something), or teleport mind games. Theres also jump kick into an air superman.

Vicinity blast also works from mid-screen ish distance, but it has to be timed right and is generally inconsistent as an anti air...but can lead into combos.

1212 can be surprisingly good, but it's not foolproof. I prefer teleport and superman since they're super fast and, since my opponent has committed to the air, pretty hard to punish. Also, if you READ a jump, a quick back dash into b312 can work for a nice juggle. And if you want to spend the meter, an armored ex shocker leads to 30% damage.

121 is an ok anti air sometimes but he has better options imo. I agree with everything else.

Well, I guy did this to me last night...


He would do whatever string... I believe it was B3, 1, 2 ... then I would try to jump and cross over... well, after the blocked B3, 1, 2 he did vicinity blast and it caught me every time into an uppercut (that's what he followed with), but I'm sure you could get a combo of it.

I usually just try jump kicking into superman myself.

Yeah Raiden can cancel his B312 into a vicinity blast, and it comes out somewhat delayed and it can throw people off who try jumping after the string is blocked. He could have followed up with a combo instead of just an uppercut. That tactic is kind of tricky because the last hit of B312 has to be blocked high or you get launched, and the vicinity blast is guaranteed if you try jumping out. The vicinity blast can be ducked/punished, or punished by an armored move or very fast special like reptiles dash as it's coming out.

i've been using 1, VB, B312 shocker B31 superman recently as an anti crossup for 30% and am curious if i can manage more damage anyone got anyway to improve on this?

Generally aa combos net you about 30% or so damage, with or without the use of meter. 30% is probably the best damage your gonna get. 1 VB dash shocker, F2 VB dash 33 superman does 30% as well. I'd say the best way to improve on it is to make sure you are consistent with whatever combo you are using.

1 VB dash b31 shocker, b31 superman (or 334) does 28% and consistent.

1 VB dash shocker, F2 vb B3 superman does 29%, very consistent

Or if you want to style you can do 1 Vb dash 1 vb dash shocker, B31 superman or F23 superman (28%) / F23 1+2 (27% but looks cool), 334 (27% and plants them on their face across the screen)