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Match-up Discussion Ares match up discussion 1.06

4x4lo8o

Noob
It really sounds like you dont know how play Ares especially against non fireball characters.
Also saying that Catwoman can react to fireballs with cat dash is completely wrong and so is saying Ares can do nothing at fullscreen.

There so many things Ares can do to a character like Catwoman. He has answer for everything against Catwoman.

He has one of best ways out of Catwomans oki pressure which she relies heavily on with his wake up teleport.

He has a good keep away game with his fireballs, trait, invisibility and teleport which is very frustrating for Catwoman to deal with when you know how use these tools correctly.

He out footsies all of Catwomans normals with his b13 forcing her to jump which can be easily Anti Aired if you can get into the right range. And his is another great footsie tool against Catwoman.

He has good oki pressure against Catwoman because her wake ups are not that good.

What more do you want??.
Damn, too slow. I posted that while I was at work, and just got home and was testing and you quoted it right after I edited it. See my previous post, I covered most of that stuff. :oops:

My bad, I had been unaware that fireballs couldn't be catdashed on reaction, I thought the initial dash was faster. I still think it doesn't change that much, because Catdash is safe full screen and Ares zoning is so momentum based that it can be easy to get a read.
 

4x4lo8o

Noob
It really sounds like you dont know how play Ares especially against non fireball characters.
Also saying that Catwoman can react to fireballs with cat dash is completely wrong and so is saying Ares can do nothing at fullscreen.

There so many things Ares can do to a character like Catwoman. He has answer for everything against Catwoman.

He has one of best ways out of Catwomans oki pressure which she relies heavily on with his wake up teleport.

He has a good keep away game with his fireballs, trait, invisibility and teleport which is very frustrating for Catwoman to deal with when you know how use these tools correctly.

He out footsies all of Catwomans normals with his b13 forcing her to jump which can be easily Anti Aired if you can get into the right range. And his trait is another great footsie tool against Catwoman.

He has good oki pressure against Catwoman because her wake ups are not that good.

What more do you want??.
Anyway, my embarassing mistake about reacting to fireballs with Catdash aside, I think I do know how to fight against the character. It was prepatch, but I've run sets with Krayzie offline and gone close to even(I might see if I can dig up the stream to show you what he does - and last I asked he agreed it was Catwomans favor) and we have a local Catwoman player who got top 32 at Evo(name's Jowuh, but he's not on this site or known in this community) that I also do fine against.

I agree that his oki is good against Catwoman, that's easily his biggest strength in the match up imo. But I disagree on all your other points and I think I've touched on all of them except footsies. And that one's weird because I don't even know what you're talking about. Catwoman's f1 has about the same range as Ares b1 and is faster. Ares b13 does have longer range, but by the time the second hit comes out it's a 30 frame start up and it's -2 on block and leaves him comfortable in Catwoman's footsies range.
 

LaR

Noob
Attempting to use b4 to prevent ji2 is not a good idea in this match up. Use it too early before she decides and you get mb b3'd, use it too late and she stuffs it with j2. Not to mention she can jump over it. If it does catch her in the air you only get 4% or 10% and she gets to get up and jump on you for the next 9 seconds while it recharges.

I have no idea how 223 and f12 give Ares "continuous pressure". Granted 22 can give him some pressure, but if he finishes the string his pressure is over. f12 has absolute no use in the pressure game - no frame advantage, not fast, mediocre hitbox...

Her oki works great against Ares too. On his wake up she can do f11 or b12 and still have time to jump if he did Godsmack and is safe(with advantage) if he teleported. She can do a jump back and if Ares close godsmacks or in front teleports she can punish with j2, if he teleports behind(and probably far behind) can punish with j1. She might not be able to run her standard oki game(I don't know what she does against other characters) but she can easily modify to work very well against Ares. The new far teleports might throw a few kinks in, but if she reads those she can punish them too

She doesn't have to dash randomly, there's no risk reward regarding dashes that's in Ares favor. At fullscreen if she throws one out it's safe and at closer than full screen she doesn't need them. She can evade them on reaction and walk in because the recovery on them is so long. Once she gets to jump 2 range(which is like half screen, you'd know better than me, it's way out of Ares footsies range) it becomes much more difficult for Ares to throw fireballs because she can ji2 and full combo on reaction.

As far as punishing and combos - 123, f23~fireball for 20%ish is the best traitless combo you can get off 123, compared to mid 30's that you get with 112~d4. But you can't even punish Catdash with 1 most of the time and since 1 hits high you're likely to get blown up if you try. And you need trait to combo off of d1.
223 is an amazing pressure string which im sure you already know about . The f12 pressure im talking about is when you end combos with it for the untechable knockdown which gives him lots of options. As for Catwomans oki vs Ares wake up i would never use godsmack anyway i dont think i've even used it since the patch. The teleport wake ups are amazing now and make it very risky/practical for Catwoman to go for any mix up after her hard knockdown.
 

LaR

Noob
Anyway, my embarassing mistake about reacting to fireballs with Catdash aside, I think I do know how to fight against the character. It was prepatch, but I've run sets with Krayzie offline and gone close to even(I might see if I can dig up the stream to show you what he does - and last I asked he agreed it was Catwomans favor) and we have a local Catwoman player who got top 32 at Evo(name's Jowuh, but he's not on this site or known in this community) that I also do fine against.

I agree that his oki is good against Catwoman, that's easily his biggest strength in the match up imo. But I disagree on all your other points and I think I've touched on all of them except footsies. And that one's weird because I don't even know what you're talking about. Catwoman's f1 has about the same range as Ares b1 and is faster. Ares b13 does have longer range, but by the time the second hit comes out it's a 30 frame start up and it's -2 on block and leaves him comfortable in Catwoman's footsies range.
yea they are about the same but like you said the second hit of b13 has so much range and it is not easy to wiff punish.
 

4x4lo8o

Noob
223 is an amazing pressure string which im sure you already know about . The f12 pressure im talking about is when you end combos with it for the untechable knockdown which gives him lots of options. As for Catwomans oki vs Ares wake up i would never use godsmack anyway i dont think i've even used it since the patch. The teleport wake ups are amazing now and make it very risky/practical for Catwoman to go for any mix up after her hard knockdown.
How does the teleport make it risky for her to go into mix ups after a knockdown? The recovery is long enough that Ares can't punish or do anything


yea they are about the same but like you said the second hit of b13 has so much range and it is not easy to wiff punish.
But no one should ever be getting hit by the second hit of b13, it's very slow and once it's blocked things are in her favor. Beyond that there's also her b3, which demolishes b1. She doesn't even have to mb burn it. Most of her strings advance forward and from slightly longer ranges she has those whips. She demolishes Ares in footsies
 

ryublaze

Noob
and I think Ares' new teleports are upplayed a bit. If your inputs get reversed you'll get a close teleport and be punished.
 

LaR

Noob
How does the teleport make it risky for her to go into mix ups after a knockdown? The recovery is long enough that Ares can't punish or do anything




But no one should ever be getting hit by the second hit of b13, it's very slow and once it's blocked things are in her favor. Beyond that there's also her b3, which demolishes b1. She doesn't even have to mb burn it. Most of her strings advance forward and from slightly longer ranges she has those whips. She demolishes Ares in footsies
If she goes for her 50/50 the meter burn tele will full combo punish her
 

LaR

Noob
EX Cat Dash autocorrects. That's a good reason not to use it.
yea if the stars and planets allign. Cat dash is full combo punishable(offline) no catwoman will ever stop me from teleporting away and doing my other tele setups with the threat of a random cat dash lol. even if was safe you can still teleport away.
 

P3irce

Noob
Alright guys now that the patch has been out for a bit I'd like to hear your tips for beating black adam, I had to face Rico's BA during the grand finals of a local and pretty much got bodied 3-1 . That foot dive is just annoying any tips ?
 

InFlames

dead
Alright guys now that the patch has been out for a bit I'd like to hear your tips for beating black adam, I had to face Rico's BA during the grand finals of a local and pretty much got bodied 3-1 . That foot dive is just annoying any tips ?
j1 beats foot dive IIRC
 

xInfra Deadx

Gimmick stolen by Jordan Peele
For real ? So on reaction j1 ?
Not on reaction, on read. Any jumping move pretty much has better priority than his dive kick.

P.S. MB F3 is your best friend against Dive Kicks if reading them isn't your fancy.
 
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4x4lo8o

Noob
There's no way you can mb f3 on reaction to a divekick...

You can do j1 on reaction to his jumps if you think he's going to divekick, but if he does j1 or j3 instead of divekick you're probably going to lose. Blocking will rarely get you anything, divekick basically unpunishable on block as far as Ares is concerned.

Tbh he probably isn't throwing out random divekick that you can easily do anything about anyway. He should mostly be doing it to punish when he jumps a projectile or something fullscreen, which you can't do much about other than not throw projectiles.
 

xInfra Deadx

Gimmick stolen by Jordan Peele
Bane - 5-5 (for now, i'm optimistic that it's 6-4.)
Batman could be 3-7...i'm not sure.
Flash - 3-7. Baaaaaaaaaaad.
Harley - Could be 6-4. Have to play either Deg or Saltface to be certain though...
Hawkgirl - I think this could be 5-5 in the future.
Lex - 6-4. It's easier to keep him full screen. He can give Ares issues when he's traited, though.
Lobo - 6-4. Easy.
Nightwing/Raven 5-5
Scorpion - 4-6. By this point, the west coast doesn't know what they're doing anymore.
Superman - 4-6 for now...could be 3-7 like they're saying...but...
WW - 3-7. Horrible matchup.
Zatanna - 5-5
 

4x4lo8o

Noob
They had it as 6-4 Ares' favor which just makes no sense to me. It's no knock on you if it came out that way.
Nah, I just had no idea what it meant. I agree that it's in no way in Ares favor or even 5-5. I don't know what the west coast has to do with it. Mr. Aquaman is east coast and Rebelo(who gave the Scorpion numbers) is Canadian. I think?

That number's definitely whack though. I disagreed with a bunch of them numbers in there, but that was the biggest one that jumped out at me. And switching that to 4-6 switches Ares and Scorpions positions on the tier chart
 

4x4lo8o

Noob
superman 3-7? naw man.
I think Superman could be a 3-7. It's about a million times better since the patch, but Superman still out footsies Ares, out damages Ares, and probably outzones Ares. And the divepunch resets are just so bullshit. Even if you guess right the punish you get is soo bad. The thing is, if Superman is 3-7 then Ares probably has significantly more 3-7's than that chart shows
 
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