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Match-up Discussion Aquaman Matchup Discussion

Glass Sword

Glass Sword

Nobody
I have a question how is the Aquaman vs Flash match suppose to play out. Trident Rush and From the Deep are Non-Abusable since the Flash has punishes for both the moves which are both anti trait. Even when you block a mix up with trait unless it was the over head than Flash is still advantage and can mix me up again. On knockdown Flash can put me back in pressure if I have trait without it it's a coin flip.
To win it seems I really have to abuse b1 by itself to maintain spaced since the last place you want to be is next to Flash at a disadvantage. Besides that you can use the unfuzzyable mixup off f1, but if Flash blocks scoop he gets a punish with mb tornado into his 50/50 on knockdown. It seems to be a heavy don't fuck up match.
 
Syknis

Syknis

King of the Kiddie Pool
AK Glass_Sword said:
I have a question how is the Aquaman vs Flash match suppose to play out. Trident Rush and From the Deep are Non-Abusable since the Flash has punishes for both the moves which are both anti trait. Even when you block a mix up with trait unless it was the over head than Flash is still advantage and can mix me up again. On knockdown Flash can put me back in pressure if I have trait without it it's a coin flip.
To win it seems I really have to abuse b1 by itself to maintain spaced since the last place you want to be is next to Flash at a disadvantage. Besides that you can use the unfuzzyable mixup off f1, but if Flash blocks scoop he gets a punish with mb tornado into his 50/50 on knockdown. It seems to be a heavy don't fuck up match.
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This mu is tough. You gotta get life lead and play keep away.
 
Superman Prime

Superman Prime

im no ordinary superman, im a superman thats prime
Tom Brady said:
I didnt know posting FACTS about counter tactics that players should be aware of was downplaying. Didnt say the attack nor the character was not great. Seriously.. do you ever stop trolling? Please dont let this thread get derailed because I posted stuff..
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what do you think of the superman matchup? i honestly think its a 5-5, aquaman and him both have answers for eachothers shenanigans
 
Crathen

Crathen

Death is my business
Tom Brady said:


I've got some Killer Frost stuff that I'll have up tomorrow.
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Tom why bother jumping when everyone in the cast can stuff his wakeups just by timing your normals , all of Doomsday wakeups ( execpt Upshoulder and ok Super ) are not invincible until their impact frame. If they Venom / ES / Supernova they get full combo punished and when they finally decide to use upshoulder and you block it you get a free b3 combo wheter or not they MB it.

I know they can delay their wakeup attack to change the stuff attempt timing ( and probably they could delay the Venom if you neutral jump like you did in the video and actually hit , didn't test it yet , will do soon to confirm ) but it's still a better risk reward than neutral jumping , not many players do this but it's going to be very hard for Doomsdays to get up in the future when people actually get the timing down.

Also it's good to know you're back full time on Injustice , can't wait for the KF stuff.
 
AK Harold

AK Harold

Noob
Yeah I agree with Crathen. Stuffing non upshoulders really changes DD strategy. It forces them to think about coming in so hard when they know they do not want to get knocked down either.
 
Tom Brady

Tom Brady

Noob
Crathen said:
Tom why bother jumping when everyone in the cast can stuff his wakeups just by timing your normals , all of Doomsday wakeups ( execpt Upshoulder and ok Super ) are not invincible until their impact frame. If they Venom / ES / Supernova they get full combo punished and when they finally decide to use upshoulder and you block it you get a free b3 combo wheter or not they MB it.

I know they can delay their wakeup attack to change the stuff attempt timing ( and probably they could delay the Venom if you neutral jump like you did in the video and actually hit , didn't test it yet , will do soon to confirm ) but it's still a better risk reward than neutral jumping , not many players do this but it's going to be very hard for Doomsdays to get up in the future when people actually get the timing down.

Also it's good to know you're back full time on Injustice , can't wait for the KF stuff.
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Aquaman cannot stuff all his wake ups minus Upward Venom unless he ends combos with 223 or sweep. At that point Doomsday can get up and go on the offensive if you decide to block the Upward Venom, and he is so close to you, it will be difficult to react. At least from this range you can react to him attempting to go on the offensive if he thinks you will block Upward Venom while still allowing you to counter his other wu attacks. Also, no matter how he delay's his venom wu attack, you can always jump at the same timing and combo him.
 
Tom Brady

Tom Brady

Noob
AK Harold said:
Yeah I agree with Crathen. Stuffing non upshoulders really changes DD strategy. It forces them to think about coming in so hard when they know they do not want to get knocked down either.
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Dude.. DD players do not give a fuck. In their mind, they'll Up Venom every time. To them, it will make you block right next to them, which allows them to go on the offensive. As an Aquaman player, ending combos up close causes a mix up that doesnt need to be present, regardless of the fact that its in your favor.

I can still counter every wu attack minus Upward Venom without giving him the option for offense should I choose to block when I read Upward Venom.
 
Crathen

Crathen

Death is my business
Tom Brady said:
Aquaman cannot stuff all his wake ups minus Upward Venom unless he ends combos with 223 or sweep. At that point Doomsday can get up and go on the offensive if you decide to block the Upward Venom, and he is so close to you, it will be difficult to react. At least from this range you can react to him attempting to go on the offensive if he thinks you will block Upward Venom while still allowing you to counter his other wu attacks. Also, no matter how he delay's his venom wu attack, you can always jump at the same timing and combo him.
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Aquaman can stuff DD wakeups ( bar upvenom ofc ) after ending a combo with f2 1+3 and in case you do choose to block they're out of d1 range so they want to dash in if they want to pressure. Now before i get blown up i'll say that the timing to stuff his wakeups actually makes b12 whiff the first hit but only if they are stand blocking or if they are jumping forward ( pretty ballsy read tbh i wouldn't say the b12 is worthless because of this option ) , if he tries to d1 now b12 has more range because he's in a crouching state and will get punished.


I'd say neutral jumping is the safer bet but it's less rewarding if they do nothing as even if Doomsday can't safely pressure without dashing or burning meter on MB Venom the same can be said for Aquaman. Just my 2c.
 
Tom Brady

Tom Brady

Noob
Crathen said:
Aquaman can stuff DD wakeups ( bar upvenom ofc ) after ending a combo with f2 1+3 and in case you do choose to block they're out of d1 range so they want to dash in if they want to pressure. Now before i get blown up i'll say that the timing to stuff his wakeups actually makes b12 whiff the first hit but only if they are stand blocking or if they are jumping forward ( pretty ballsy read tbh i wouldn't say the b12 is worthless because of this option ) , if he tries to d1 now b12 has more range because he's in a crouching state and will get punished.


I'd say neutral jumping is the safer bet but it's less rewarding if they do nothing as even if Doomsday can't safely pressure without dashing or burning meter on MB Venom the same can be said for Aquaman. Just my 2c.
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As I have shown before, Aquaman can actually stuff EVERY wu attack of Doomsday's after F2 1+3 with a down to the frame FTD, but that doesnt necessarily make it the best option. Its the same for trying to stuff wake ups with B12 after a F2 1+3. Neutral jumping is best... While its true DD can do nothing, at least I'm not whiffing B12 when he is doing nothing and giving him offense.
 
Crathen

Crathen

Death is my business
Tom Brady said:
As I have shown before, Aquaman can actually stuff EVERY wu attack of Doomsday's after F2 1+3 with a down to the frame FTD, but that doesnt necessarily make it the best option. Its the same for trying to stuff wake ups with B12 after a F2 1+3. Neutral jumping is best... While its true DD can do nothing, at least I'm not whiffing B12 when he is doing nothing and giving him offense.
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Fair enough , i see why neutral jumping is the safer bet , just sharing another option in case an Aquaman player would want to keep pressure going.
 
Qwark28

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Tom Brady said:
As I have shown before, Aquaman can actually stuff EVERY wu attack of Doomsday's after F2 1+3 with a down to the frame FTD, but that doesnt necessarily make it the best option. Its the same for trying to stuff wake ups with B12 after a F2 1+3. Neutral jumping is best... While its true DD can do nothing, at least I'm not whiffing B12 when he is doing nothing and giving him offense.
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Do you think that in some matchups it's not worth it to do a JF FTD due to certain characters being able to punish it? I remember making uneccessary reads on whether you'd do it when we played a few months ago, then I went in the lab and saw that I could simply block and do a d2 mb rlg gas for 32%.
 
AK Harold

AK Harold

Noob
I see. . . I will have to consider balancing both depending on health leads. The damage ratio of interupts seemed better to stuff DD but I guess if I am behind I should look into that option. Problem is not many more DD players sticking with him.
 
Tom Brady

Tom Brady

Noob
Qwark28 said:
Do you think that in some matchups it's not worth it to do a JF FTD due to certain characters being able to punish it? I remember making uneccessary reads on whether you'd do it when we played a few months ago, then I went in the lab and saw that I could simply block and do a d2 mb rlg gas for 32%.
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FTD cannot be punished by Joker's D2 from that range.
 
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