General/Other - Ninjitsu Anyone else feels that Ninjutsu is missing something?

[HuttonMD]

A lot of the talk in here is actually about what to do and best way to utilize the tools he has

 

[Tony at Home]

Everyone has said that he doesn't necessarily need them but they would be nice. your acting like we have a buff scorpion campaign going on in here when that is clearly not the case

Ahem:

No, but Scorpion needs buffs

This is a buff thread for a mid tier character.

 

[HuttonMD]

Ahem:



This is a buff thread for a mid tier character.

Lol ggs. To be fair tho I said that before he posted lol

 

[haketh]

Ahem:



This is a buff thread for a mid tier character.

Theirs nothing wrong with buffing mid tier characters, people gotta stop talking like their authorities on balancing damn. Theirs a long history of buffing mid tier character because hey even when you just buff low tier characters you still have to look at mid tier and make changes.

 

[Kotal_Wannabe]

They did buff kotal even though he's mid tier, didn't think they'd touch him at all, but they helped out a little atleast. I do think scorp needs something too and I hope they do something about him, becasue while he's "ok" he's nothing in comparison with the top tiers, they should be moving towards buffing the lesser characters, and nerfing the top tier; this is just common sense and when I read Tony's message, I honestly thought he was trolling, but guess not lol. NRS just have a dumb idea about balance, mkx for sure isn't the most unbalanced fighting game in history, but they buff and nerf the wrong things so much despite what the community is saying so often that it almost feels like they got some AI deciding things around there.

 

[MAN0]

His b32 needs to be cancelable nothing more nothing less.

 

[Eddy Wang]

His b32 needs to be cancelable nothing more nothing less.

If this happens his B32F2 doesn't need to be safe i guess, but i'm fine with either this or the safe B32F2

 

[Jay Rupp]

Ninjutsu Scorpion was my decided main when MK X came out. I was very chuffed when he got the damage buffs and scaling improvements. Even now, though, I feel he is just missing something. I can't quite figure out what it is. Maybe he is a little too honest?

I honestly feel that the second hit of F2 could be an overhead or he gains the hell fire move from Hellfire variation.

If the second hit is an overhead, it is reactable, but can still catch people out. If he gains hellfire, you can bait out a jump and punish with B2, but still get punished hard if they score the jump in or succumb to pressure because your armour options aren't brilliant.

Anyone else feel the same way? This is purely my opinion, nothing more. Feel free to discuss / blow me up.

@Slips @YOMI RM JagoBlake @JTB123

He's lacking with pressure options compared to both of his other variations. Ninjutsu allows Scorpion to have a better neutral game but strips away a lot of his arsenal. Hellfire is the way to go. Ninjutsu definitely looks the coolest though and that has to count for something, right? Lol

 

[Scoot Magee]

That was a dumb buff. What's the logic behind "hey, we gave one character a boatload of unnecessary horrible buffs, why not the entire cast????"

Like seriously, are we really basing our balance standards on Quan Chi?????

I'm usually one to campaign against any changes at all. I think people are just a little salty (Including me) that Scorpion was nerfed pretty heavily while other characters held on to massive bullshit. This is why I always said please don't change yet lol.

BUFF SCORPION! ITS NOT REALLY A BUFF IF WE JUST GET OUR DIRT BACK!

 

[Ze Dingo]

I'm usually one to campaign against any changes at all. I think people are just a little salty (Including me) that Scorpion was nerfed pretty heavily while other characters held on to massive bullshit. This is why I always said please don't change yet lol.

BUFF SCORPION! ITS NOT REALLY A BUFF IF WE JUST GET OUR DIRT BACK!

I'm not salty he was nerfed. I'm salty about the way it was done. Did they seriously not think about the other variations when nerfing the cancel advantage on the 214 string? And then, the advantage is reset on special cancel...? Why didn't that happen to Liu Kang or Raiden or Jax or Erron Black or...?

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Ninjutsu, I'd like to roll it against any member of the cast, but when I go against a Lao or Liu Kang, I immediately make the switch to Grandmaster because I'm at a loss for options what to do when they get in my face and stay there because my only armoured option is -10000000 on block.

 

[STRYKIE]

Is there certain armor wake ups that f2 won't break the armor on?

I've never been able to stuff Cassie's EX flipkick with it, so there's that.

Absolutely not for b4 being safer. It'd be a little silly for something that can break armor that fast to be safe.

Considering Ninjutsu F2, or even his variation wide standing 1 strings, it doesn't really make any sense that it's unsafe on block lol. I'd really like to know what the thought process was behind Ninjutsu B4's properties.

 

[Scoot Magee]

I'm not salty he was nerfed. I'm salty about the way it was done. Did they seriously not think about the other variations when nerfing the cancel advantage on the 214 string? And then, the advantage is reset on special cancel...?

I didn't go into detail but this is basically what I meant. I just wish they could have figured out another way to do it.

 

[Slips]

I didn't go into detail but this is basically what I meant. I just wish they could have figured out another way to do it.

Didn't D'Vorah players rage about something similar with their string and NRS changed the cancel advantage on hit to be reverted back to it's old way but on block the cancel advantage was later so they couldn't get guaranteed chip? I wonder if that's possible with Scorp's 214.

I'm not sure, but the 214~tp into 123 can be super annoying to land on pixie characters. It's not the end of the world but we do miss out on damage every so often because of it. And Especially with deep j3's where j3~tp, 214~ex tp won't connect.

 

[Scoot Magee]

Didn't D'Vorah players rage about something similar with their string and NRS changed the cancel advantage on hit to be reverted back to it's old way but on block the cancel advantage was later so they couldn't get guaranteed chip? I wonder if that's possible with Scorp's 214.

I'm not sure, but the 214~tp into 123 can be super annoying to land on pixie characters. It's not the end of the world but we do miss out on damage every so often because of it. And Especially with deep j3's where j3~tp, 214~ex tp won't connect.

Yeah there was a thread about Dvora and they changed it like a week later.

 

[Manatee_Warrior]

would be cool if ninjutsu scorp got fireball or a unique spear, be able to throw it down or up angles or maybe an air spear.

 

[SaJa]

He just need a spear cancel, and a spear as fast as mk9.

 

[Scoot Magee]

He just need a spear cancel, and a spear as fast as mk9.

His ex spear is actually pretty fast.

 

[Scoot Magee]

I think people underestimate scorpions pressure options in Ninjutsu with conditioning. A lot of his strings end -1 and with his 6 frame d1 he can stuff most follow ups and be at good plus frames on hit. From there you can go for a safe string, grab or f2. Eventually when theyou respect d1 you'll have more options. Obviously it's not Liu Kang level pressure but imo people are downplaying his options up close. Also just to add there's a lot of good spacing situations that come from the pressure I mentioned in which set up whiff punishes with f and b 2.

 

[wa_black]

I think people underestimate scorpions pressure options in Ninjutsu with conditioning. A lot of his strings end -1 and with his 6 frame d1 he can stuff most follow ups and be at good plus frames on hit. From there you can go for a safe string, grab or f2. Eventually when theyou respect d1 you'll have more options. Obviously it's not Liu Kang level pressure but imo people are downplaying his options up close. Also just to add there's a lot of good spacing situations that come from the pressure I mentioned in which set up whiff punishes with f and b 2.

I don't think it's underestimating. I just think it's a matter of worth. The risk associated with pressuring opponents in this game is lethal compared to the reward we get. We'll get 33% into more conditioning. They armor out or poke out, we take 35-50% and probably land into a set up; and not an honest one.

Personally now that I think about it. I think Ninjutsu would be a mid tier for his humble gameplay in another setting, but here I think at best we are lower mid-tier, if not low. This is a dishonest game and Ninjutsu's only gimmick becomes useless if they just delay wake up, or block in the neutral. Yeah we can get some more throws in and some conditioning, but putting the risk to those aside coupled with out lack of comeback factor, that's compared to a good half the cast with rewarding playstyles + out condition and other characters also have fast multi-hitting normals, that are much safer. I think we got the short end of the stick.

But I would love for pro player to make top 8 at a major with Nin to make me eat my words. Props to Jago for the being the only Ninjutsu that I've seen on a tournament stream so far.

 

[Matix218]

I don't think it's underestimating. I just think it's a matter of worth. The risk associated with pressuring opponents in this game is lethal compared to the reward we get. We'll get 33% into more conditioning. They armor out or poke out, we take 35-50% and probably land into a set up; and not an honest one.

Personally now that I think about it. I think Ninjutsu would be a mid tier for his humble gameplay in another setting, but here I think at best we are lower mid-tier, if not low. This is a dishonest game and Ninjutsu's only gimmick becomes useless if they just delay wake up, or block in the neutral. Yeah we can get some more throws in and some conditioning, but putting the risk to those aside coupled with out lack of comeback factor, that's compared to a good half the cast with rewarding playstyles + out condition and other characters also have fast multi-hitting normals, that are much safer. I think we got the short end of the stick.

But I would love for pro player to make top 8 at a major with Nin to make me eat my words. Props to Jago for the being the only Ninjutsu that I've seen on a tournament stream so far.

I think it is possible for a Ninj scorp to make top 8 at a major but the player would truly have to be on another level with their spacing and also potentially have a lucky path with no laos, cassies, etc. I think the character is good but like you said he may just be too honest for a game with offense like mkx has. Although if you can master the ninjutsu vortex with both options being safe that slips is using I think it may increase the odds significantly because at that point you are putting them in a safe looping vortex situation after every landed combo

 

[Tony at Home]

We'll get 33% into more conditioning. They armor out or poke out, we take 35-50% and probably land into a set up; and not an honest one.

Give me a list of every character that can do 35% + for armoring out. Not sure how one gets that off a poke.

 

[Magnum Magpie]

Interest maybe...

 

[wa_black]

Give me a list of every character that can do 35% + for armoring out. Not sure how one gets that off a poke.

I don't have it because as short as that list is, we're going to run into them in a tournament. The main issue is simply that we have a low rate of damage output with a low damage output.

Can we start a movement to have pro players exhibition with lower tier characters. Like Mit Ninjutsu vs Sonic Fox again.

Personally I would love it if Ninjutsu wasn't bad, but everything people say about him just sounds like trying to make the best out of a bad situation. On that note all the advice given about using Ninjutusu highlights a neutral option that can be used by all scorpions, meaning there's point in our variation.

 

[Hor_PeT]

Hi guys. I have read all post in this thread to learn about Ninjustu and I just want to thank you for the many useful tips and practical options. The pro-cons .

After experimenting other variants of Scorpion and seeing other top tier characters I decided to learn Ninjutsu's honest game play as I feel that this game play is close to me.
Which I know it's very difficult to learn and feel.
But I rather learn that way instead of learning top tier characters play which provides the "usual" trend.

I play often with my friends so mind game and conditioning should not be a problem (not like playing every match against different players online).

Then I will see I can feel it or not. I don't have tournament ambitions.
And I must tell you that i am amazed how ScootMagee and Blake play (watched videos) so it's a big motivation.
Of course I am amazed of hellfire players too (eg. jtb) it looked even more fancy lol. I can't list all the names here but I have watched many YouTube videos (and read many posts).

 

[Eddy Wang]

Hi guys. I have read all post in this thread to learn about Ninjustu and I just want to thank you for the many useful tips and practical options. The pro-cons .

After experimenting other variants of Scorpion and seeing other top tier characters I decided to learn Ninjutsu's honest game play as I feel that this game play is close to me.
Which I know it's very difficult to learn and feel.
But I rather learn that way instead of learning top tier characters play which provides the "usual" trend.

I play often with my friends so mind game and conditioning should not be a problem (not like playing every match against different players online).

Then I will see I can feel it or not. I don't have tournament ambitions.
And I must tell you that i am amazed how ScootMagee and Blake play (watched videos) so it's a big motivation.
Of course I am amazed of hellfire players too (eg. jtb) it looked even more fancy lol. I can't list all the names here but I have watched many YouTube videos (and read many posts).

Gud job, and gud loock on your jurney!