Amplified (EX, MB) moves — Universal inputs are back

[LawAbidingCitizen]

During today’s Kombat Kast, it was revealed that they’ve returned to using universal inputs to amplify moves.

However, they mentioned that it uses the interact button now (16bit said “right bumper” which is the Xbox equivalent to R1), rather than the block button.

Thought I’d make a new thread just in case people haven’t seen, since this was kind of a big deal.

EDIT: Interact button confirmed:

I personally don't think it would have hurt anything either way but I prefer MB like MK has always been.
But It doesn't matter as long as it's one of the bumper/triggers (R1,R2,L1,L2) cuz we can button map it to Block.
If they kept it character specific like (U+2) we couldn't map it.

 

[Wetdoba]

No one who is willing to go through the time of learning an entirely new character and their moves, meta, bnbs, punishes, frame data, and a couple matchups would be dissuaded from counterpicking because they need to spend 5 extra mins to see what the MB inputs are before they start practicing the bnbs.

Literally no one.

This is a false talking point that is being repeated without people really thinking about it much.

Yet those 5 minutes are the exact reason why everyone petitioned to make them change it back to universal inputs so....

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Yet those 5 minutes are the exact reason why everyone petitioned to make them change it back to universal inputs so....

NRS themselves said from the first day this game was revealed that even they were thinking about making this change, before any threads were created. And the reasons are obvious.

 

[GOL Eklectic]

Lol wut? It’s common sense. Some matchups don’t require any frame data knowledge. You make it sound like learning characters in nrs games are some huge feat. You could literally convert combos when characters already hit the ground, the windows were huge. Knowing punishes is damn near a universal thing.

 

[Wetdoba]

NRS themselves said from the first day this game was revealed that even they were thinking about making this change, before any threads were created. And the reasons are obvious.

They specifically said on the last kast they changed it because of the feedback

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

GOOD. Glad they did this. Even Ed Boon preferred the simple one button amplify. This is how it should be and I'm glad they decided to change it back to this.

The more complex button inputs were the most unnecessary thing. Seeing people say shit like:



But it's not like learning the inputs make you some big dick pro, bro.

If even the pros are like "This change is unnecessary." It means it's unnecessary. If the Creative Director and co-creator of Mortal Kombat says he prefers the more simple one-button amplify, that's what it should be. Why make something complicated to cater to edgy pros who make up a minority of their player base. 95% of people either wanted it changed back or don't care.

You say they shouldn't make something more simple to cater to casuals, but I don't think they should reach and make something too complicated to make wannabe pros feel better about themselves.

Pros only play one or two characters, so yeah it's not gonna be a big deal for them. But I like to try out everyone. That's a lot of unnecessary inputs to remember for every single character.

If you say this:



No. Literally all the real pros or high level players who I've seen speak on it said they prefer the simple execution so. Being able to enter more inputs doesn't make you a better or more skilled player.

Y'all learn how to hit a combo and immediately think your opinions should overrule the rest. Half of y'all complaining won't even compete in a high-level environment and are likely gonna get scrubbed...but go awf I guess.

I agree someone can't argue it doesn't make things different while say it will stop players from learning multiple characters.

Learning enders to moves isn't difficult by any means and would only stump new players.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

They specifically said on the last kast they changed it because of the feedback

This is a direct quote from Ed Boon on January 17th, 2019, the day of the reveal. This happened before any threads or petitions were made:

"That’s still in flux. We’re in a bit of experimentation and such. Me personally? I want to keep them as simple as possible. I don’t want the barrier of entry to be being able to do something that’s really difficult. I’d like it, ideally, if they were all across the board simple."

https://www.gameinformer.com/interview/2019/01/17/ed-boon-talks-mortal-kombat-11s-variations-changes-and-roster

The creator of the game said on the day the gameplay was revealed that it was just an experiment and he wanted to change the Amplify inputs back to being universal. It doesn't get more direct than that. Sure it makes people feel good to think that this was all due to you, but it wasn't.

 

[GOL Eklectic]

If the extra inputs weren’t strict on the timing this whole thread is dumb af tbh. It’s dumb regardless. I have confidence this game is going to be well balanced. It seems to be already more in the thinking players hands than any mk game before.

 

[Wetdoba]

This is a direct quote from Ed Boon on January 17th, 2019, the day of the reveal. This happened before any threads or petitions were made:

"That’s still in flux. We’re in a bit of experimentation and such. Me personally? I want to keep them as simple as possible. I don’t want the barrier of entry to be being able to do something that’s really difficult. I’d like it, ideally, if they were all across the board simple."

https://www.gameinformer.com/interview/2019/01/17/ed-boon-talks-mortal-kombat-11s-variations-changes-and-roster

The creator of the game said on the day the gameplay was revealed that it was just an experiment and he wanted to change the Amplify inputs back to being universal. It doesn't get more direct than that. Sure it makes people feel good to think that this was all due to you, but it wasn't.

Everything new is an experiment when you aren't sure how people will respond to it, but when it comes to WHY it was changed back to universal they said "We listened to feedback"

http://www.twitch.tv/netherrealm/v/387680962?sr=a&t=1678s

Of course it was still open at the reveal, but in the end the decision to keep it the new way or revert back to the old way was made because of the people that complained about it. They said it directly. They didnt say anything about it being an internal debate they ended up going back on, they specifically said we changed it because players wanted it changed. And everyone that wanted it changed back to universal said it was because they didn't want to take the time (5 mins) to learn them and it was an unnecessary execution barrier.

 

[ji-high]

Sure it makes people feel good to think that this was all due to you, but it wasn't.

This is disingenuous as hell.

They didn't go through the trouble of not only adding those extra inputs, making sure that they 'made sense' according to what the character would do in the amplified version but also advertising them as a new mechanic just to scrap it before people had a chance to test it for no reason. The crying about it definitely played a major role.

I thought it was a cool mechanic and i'm disappointed they cancelled it but it's not the end of the world. I just hope the irony of telling others to stop complaining about the change because it wouldn't have been difficult to learn the new inputs anyway is not lost on those making that claim.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

They didnt say anything about it being an internal debate they ended up going back on, they specifically said we changed it because players wanted it changed.

Ed literally said it was an internal debate, was just a experimental feature, and he wanted it reverted, haha.

Somehow people converted that narritive to "It was set and stone and would only change if we protested it"..

Befuddling.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

They didn't go through the trouble of not only adding those extra inputs, making sure that they 'made sense' according to what the character would do in the amplified version but also advertising them as a new mechanic just to scrape it before people had a chance to test it for no reason. The crying about it definitely played a major role.

This happens constantly in game development. It's called "prototyping" and it's the reason why most game developers don't want to show things off before the game is truly done. It's precisely because fans get attached to prototypes and features that aren't actually set for the game yet, and complain/cry when they are changed or removed for launch.

For nearly every major game you've ever played, there are numerous features that were scrapped or majorly reworked in the weeks leading up to launch.

 

[Wetdoba]

Ed literally said it was an internal debate, was just a experimental feature, and he wanted it reverted, haha.

Somehow people converted that narritive to "It was set and stone and would only change if we protested it"..

Yes because anytime you pitch a new idea but aren't sure how it will be received the classic OS is to say its an experiment or work in progress that could go either way. If people did not complain and more people praised it you can bet it would have stayed. They changed it in the end because of feedback, just like they said on the kast. I do not care about what they were thinking when they pitched the idea for the first time, i care about the reason they actually ended up changing it for, which was viewer feedback.

 

[Marlow]

i care about the reason they actually ended up changing it for, which was viewer feedback.

I assume they have internal testers, and they've had several reveal events where they've been getting feedback. And Ed Boon already stated from the beginning it was something they weren't sure on. Isn't it more likely that they changed it due to feedback from their testers and from the events as opposed to just viewer feedback? Not saying viewer feedback played no part, but I'd be shocked if they changed it simply because of some feedback in chat or in a few relatively small online forums.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Yes because anytime you pitch a new idea but aren't sure how it will be received the classic OS is to say its an experiment or work in progress that could go either way. If people did not complain and more people praised it you can bet it would have stayed. They changed it in the end because of feedback, just like they said on the kast. I do not care about what they were thinking when they pitched the idea for the first time, i care about the reason they actually ended up changing it for, which was viewer feedback.

They didn't "pitch" it, they were already testing it out long before you or I saw it, and Ed stated on reveal that after experience he personally wanted it changed back.

Just because someone was nice enough to say that they were also listening to the community in order to make them feel good, isn't going to change this fact. We're not the game designers.

I assume they have internal testers, and they've had several reveal events where they've been getting feedback. And Ed Boon already stated from the beginning it was something they weren't sure on. Isn't it more likely that they changed it due to feedback from their testers and from the events as opposed to just viewer feedback? Not saying viewer feedback played no part, but I'd be shocked if they changed it simply because of some feedback in chat or in a few relatively small online forums.

Exactly.

 

[Wetdoba]

I assume they have internal testers, and they've had several reveal events where they've been getting feedback. And Ed Boon already stated from the beginning it was something they weren't sure on. Isn't it more likely that they changed it due to feedback from their testers and from the events as opposed to just viewer feedback? Not saying viewer feedback played no part, but I'd be shocked if they changed it simply because of some feedback in chat or in a few relatively small online forums.

Then they could have said that on the kast... but they didnt. They straight up said it was because of feedback.

 

[Wetdoba]

They didn't "pitch" it, they were already testing it out long before you or I saw it, and Ed stated on reveal that after experience he personally wanted it changed back.

Just because someone was nice enough to say that they were also listening to the community in order to make them feel good, isn't going to change this fact. We're not the game designers.


Exactly.

It was their pitch to the general public

 

[Marlow]

They straight up said it was because of feedback.

Did they specify it was stictly because of viewer feedback? It seems more likely that in this context feedback means their internal testers, and feedback from people who actually played the games at the reveal.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

It was their pitch to the general public

Lmao. "Hey TYM here's MK11, we hope you guys like it, otherwise we're gonna massively change everything you don't like in the couple months before it comes out.

You don't find it at all telling that the only major feature change, out of everything that was complained about post-reveal (and there was a new huge thread or petition complaining about some other feature literally *every* day), was the *one* feature Ed explicitly said was experimental and he already wanted changed back on reveal?

Like, that argument just sounds ridiculous. Come on.

 

[Wetdoba]

Did they specify it was stictly because of viewer feedback? It seems more likely that in this context feedback means their internal testers, and feedback from people who actually played the games at the reveal.

Tyler on the kast said "fan feedback"

Lmao. "Hey TYM here's MK11, we hope you guys like it, otherwise we're gonna massively change everything you don't like in the couple months before it comes out.

You don't find it at all telling that the only major feature change, out of everything that was complained about post-reveal (and there was a new huge thread or petition complaining about some other feature literally *every* day), was the *one* feature Ed explicitly said was experimental and he already wanted changed back on reveal?

Like, that argument just sounds ridiculous. Come on.

Read my post before you respond. The new mb/amplify mechanic was the experiment not the entire game. The entire game besides that is being praised all around but the amplify part was the one thing that was not liked, everyone on this site, twitter, reddit complain, and then it gets changed, and when they explain why it was changed they said "fan feedback." Its not a hard series of events to follow.

 

[Marlow]

and when they explain why it was changed they said "fan feedback." Its not a hard series of events to follow.

I'm not doubting that they took fan feedback into account, but I'd be shocked if the change was entirely due to TYM/Twitch/Reddit/Twitter feedback. Seems much more likely that they were on the fence with it with their own internal testers/feedback, didn't get great feedback from their reveal events, and then took fan feeback into account. It'd be pretty wild if they put more weight into the opinions of people who haven't played the game than people who have.

 

[ji-high]

Tyler on the kast said "fan feedback"



Read my post before you respond. The new mb/amplify mechanic was the experiment not the entire game. The entire game besides that is being praised all around but the amplify part was the one thing that was not liked, everyone on this site, twitter, reddit complain, and then it gets changed, and when they explain why it was changed they said "fan feedback." Its not a hard series of events to follow.

This.

They said they changed it because of feedback. It doesn't get any more straight forward than that. I don't even know what they are arguing about. Feedback doesn't mean 'TYM feedback'. People were crying about it all over the internet. Had people praised it or ignored it, it would still be in the game.

 

[BecomingDeath13]

As a Noel player (arguably the most braindead character in the series), everything I've done in a BB game is still more complicated than NRS games adding in random buttons after specials

Wow. I'm a Tao player (arguably the most rare and difficult character in the series). I hope to play you one day, if you're EU. Got this in PC and PS4 (PC preferrably). Being an anime FGer makes things much easier, while doing the hard AF inputs.

Noel is the shit though.
Taokaka is definitely rare. I almost never see people play her.
I'm a Ragna player myself, but I dabbled in quite a few characters (Jin, Noel, and Hazama).

 

[Tanno]

Noel is the shit though.
Taokaka is definitely rare. I almost never see people play her.
I'm a Ragna player myself, but I dabbled in quite a few characters (Jin, Noel, and Hazama).

True. Tao is very rare. I know a very few players that play her, including me. 3 from Japan, 3-4 (or more) from NA, and 3 (or 4) (including me) from EU. Other rare character is Carl. The rarest match would be mirror Tao. And I was lucky to watch at EVOJP one of the rarest matches, which would be mirror Noellers.

If yer EU, we should play someday. I wanna test if I can still play with you, even thought I no longer have PSN Plus.

 

[MKF30]

I'd wager they got lots of feedback on twitter as well about this change.